Bernier in hot seat after reports

daniel · May 11, 2008

Am I reading correctly? People on this discussion forum do not see a problem with the government's association with organized crime? Their bigger concern is the critics who exposed this association?

Can we no longer judge character by the company one keeps? Now that's accountability.

jbg · May 11, 2008

Am I reading correctly? People on this discussion forum do not see a problem with the government's association with organized crime? Their bigger concern is the critics who exposed this association?
Can we no longer judge character by the company one keeps? Now that's accountability.

A brief romantic fling = association with organized crime? Huh?

JaysFan · May 11, 2008

A brief romantic fling = association with organized crime? Huh?

Given her direct association to organized crime by being the girlfriend of one biker of one club and the wife of another well known other biker from a 2nd club.

Yes.

Wild Bill · May 11, 2008

Am I reading correctly? People on this discussion forum do not see a problem with the government's association with organized crime? Their bigger concern is the critics who exposed this association?
Can we no longer judge character by the company one keeps? Now that's accountability.

Quelle surprize! Government IS organized crime!

Fortunata · May 11, 2008

Their bigger concern is the critics who exposed this association?

This seems to be the general pattern of the CPC since it was put into government (and even before?) and parroted by the herd. If it's something that could stick to them adversely it must be: someone else's fault, a misinterpretation, unfair targeting by the media, ...but the Liberals ... (were worse), etc. What continues to flummox me is that the conservative brand is supposed to be all about taking personal responsibility. They preach it but don't follow it. They have a justification or excuse for everything that has happened instead of just manning up, taking the heat and learning from it.

noahbody · May 11, 2008

This seems to be the general pattern of the CPC since it was put into government (and even before?) and parroted by the herd. If it's something that could stick to them adversely it must be: someone else's fault, a misinterpretation, unfair targeting by the media, ...but the Liberals ... (were worse), etc. What continues to flummox me is that the conservative brand is supposed to be all about taking personal responsibility. They preach it but don't follow it. They have a justification or excuse for everything that has happened instead of just manning up, taking the heat and learning from it.

The Liberals would be far better off coming up with a platform and making a big deal out of it. There strategy of tying to paint the Harper government as corrupt is a poor one. The Tories aren't perfect, but they can't compete with the Liberals in the corrupt category. That's why "but the Liberals" keeps coming up. The Liberals live in a glass house and they're throwing stones at a house with windows. They need to get a leader, get a platform and start offering a viable alternative to voters.

jbg · May 11, 2008

The Liberals would be far better off coming up with a platform and making a big deal out of it. There strategy of tying to paint the Harper government as corrupt is a poor one. The Tories aren't perfect, but they can't compete with the Liberals in the corrupt category.

Great post.

The only trouble is that the Liberals are an "all things to all people" type of party, without any real firm views or convictions.

Fortunata · May 11, 2008

The Liberals would be far better off coming up with a platform and making a big deal out of it. There strategy of tying to paint the Harper government as corrupt is a poor one. The Tories aren't perfect, but they can't compete with the Liberals in the corrupt category. That's why "but the Liberals" keeps coming up. The Liberals live in a glass house and they're throwing stones at a house with windows. They need to get a leader, get a platform and start offering a viable alternative to voters.

True enough, but it's not just the Liberals or other opposition parties painting this government as corrupt. The corruption is there and it shouldn't (doesn't) matter that it may not be as big as adscam. As I have said before this government needs to stand on it's own and it doesn't. The excuses and the justifications they make for things they have done (which is nothing to do with the Liberals) are not doing them any favours except in the eyes of the already converted anyways. For the rest of us ... it just makes them look Eric Cartman-ish. You know how he whines .. but Moooom? That's how the CPC sound ... but the Liberals. It just doesn't cut it anymore.

Michael Bluth · May 11, 2008

The corruption is there and it shouldn't (doesn't) matter that it may not be as big as adscam. It just doesn't cut it anymore.

As long as the CPC isn't as corrupt as adscam the Liberals whines of corruption will ring true.

Look at the Bernier affair. It's a problem that the Minister's ex-girlfriend was associated with bikers.

BUT the Liberals tried to argue that it was only certain party members and operatives who profited from Adscam, nobody who was elected. Or was it that there were a few bad seeds.

As long as the Liberals try and hold the CPC up to a much higher standard than they adhered to of course BUT is going to come up and keep coming up. Maybe once people forget Adscam it won't cut it anymore, but it's far too recent to have been forgotten.

As for the 'eyes of the converted' take a look at reality.

30% of the country will vote CPC and are very committed in their voting intention. Fine.

You are part of the 30% who will never vote CPC and will vote Liberal despite how they behave. Fine.

The mush middle 40% is what counts.

As long as the Liberal stench still wafts over Ottawa it will come up over and over and over again.

Who's Doing What? · May 11, 2008

The article was about Bernier having a picture with this guy. He also had a picture with Chretien and John Crosbie.
Glad to see you are freely using your exemption from the rule on personal attacks.

What exactly was the risk at bringing her to the swearing in? Should anyone, any cabinet minister brings to a public function be checked out by security? At what cost?

See how that worked? Ask reasonable questions. No personal attacks. Pleasant...

Were was the personal attack?

Nothing he said was personal, nor was it an attack. Paranoia will destroy ya.

jdobbin · May 11, 2008

The excuses and the justifications they make for things they have done (which is nothing to do with the Liberals) are not doing them any favours except in the eyes of the already converted anyways. For the rest of us ... it just makes them look Eric Cartman-ish. You know how he whines .. but Moooom? That's how the CPC sound ... but the Liberals. It just doesn't cut it anymore.

It certainly helps them with fundraising from the base but they still can't seem to break into majority territory despite the money. The contrast with how the Charest government has operated is telling. I don't know if Harper's government can break from the style they seem to like. The constant battling on all fronts hurts the government and that is why things are stalled federally on a variety of things.

Who's Doing What? · May 11, 2008

As long as the CPC isn't as corrupt as adscam the Liberals whines of corruption will ring true.

Stealing and corruption is stealing and corruption. Just because one group/person took more, it does not exscuse the actions of the other.

As long as the Liberals try and hold the CPC up to a much higher standard than they adhered to of course BUT is going to come up and keep coming up. Maybe once people forget Adscam it won't cut it anymore, but it's far too recent to have been forgotten.

Adscam is too recent to be forgotten? How is it then that you have apparently already forgotten the CPC platform from the last election? You know the one about Integrity, Accountability and Transparency.

The CPC themselves, not the Liberals, set the standard for what we could expect during their last campaign, now you want to sweep it under the rug and allow them to be the same old corrupt, dishonest Government they replaced, without reminding them of what they promised Canadians.

As for the 'eyes of the converted' take a look at reality.
30% of the country will vote CPC and are very committed in their voting intention. Fine.

You are part of the 30% who will never vote CPC and will vote Liberal despite how they behave. Fine.

The mush middle 40% is what counts.

As long as the Liberal stench still wafts over Ottawa it will come up over and over and over again.

The "Liberal stench" isn't alone in the air over Ottawa. The CPC are getting pretty ripe themselves.

Michael Bluth · May 11, 2008

Stealing and corruption is stealing and corruption. Just because one group/person took more, it does not exscuse the actions of the other.
The "Liberal stench" isn't alone in the air over Ottawa. The CPC are getting pretty ripe themselves.

With what? Bernier's girlfriend? That is what this thread is about. Show some wrongdoing, or even allegations related to this past relationship.

Topaz · May 11, 2008

What the SOME Libs did was wrong and no Canadian who cares about this country should let ANY party corrupt it. The CPC aren't any better. They refuse to answer simple questions that Canadians want to know who are watching question period. They turn everything around and are being nothing but smartass! As ie. the young Conservative, stand up and say the other are doing the same with the "in and out" scheme. He says 5000 in 5000 out in out, they do it too. I wish someone would stand up and say to him, Conservatives in, Conservatives out! This party has so many problems going on how can they govern?? I`m ready for a change and if these Libs become like the Cons I`d vote them out too.

Fortunata · May 11, 2008

Even Craig Oliver took the CPC rep to task this morning on Question Period for not answering questions both in the HoC Question Period and on their show. That has to be pretty apparent and blatant for any CTV reporter to give the CPC a hard time (as legitimate as it may be).

Who's Doing What? · May 12, 2008

With what? Bernier's girlfriend? That is what this thread is about. Show some wrongdoing, or even allegations related to this past relationship.

Love how you conveniently ignore the part about the CPC promises to have integrity, accountability, and transparency.

But ofcourse you would have to ignore it. Because if you ackowledged it you wouldn't have to ask the question you did.

The stench is from the lack of integrity, accountability and transparency. I don't know if there was wrongdoing involving the biker chick or not. Frankly I don't care. What I do care about is the stupid childish games this Govt. continues to play whenever questioned on anything. By not allowing members to be held ACCOUNTABLE, and showing no TRANSPARENCY when it comes time to answer questions, the CPC has effectively lost any INTEGRITY they might have had to the general public. Born Blue Con's as yourself would never care what the party does as long the Liberals weren't in power, but to a lot of Canadians the behaviour of this Govt. is starting to smell rotten.

Michael Bluth · May 12, 2008

Born Blue Con's as yourself would never care what the party does as long the Liberals weren't in power, but to a lot of Canadians the behaviour of this Govt. is starting to smell rotten.

Wow, pretty convincing. Sadly ignores the fact.

This Government is more accountable, and transparent than any we have seen in 15 years. It has more integrity than any Liberal Government in the last 50 years.

But maybe repeating three words, somehow detracts from your lack of an argument.

The only stench around here wafts up from your lame attempts at slamming anyone who doesn't share your vile hatred for the Government. Your inability to justify your ignorant attacks is symptomatic of a lack of integrity on your part!

jdobbin · May 12, 2008

The stench is from the lack of integrity, accountability and transparency.

The promise of change in these area helped propel Harper in the election.

After a few years of power, it will be difficult to run on those areas again when the evidence is there to show a controlling party on every aspect of information and a lack of transparency on a host of other issues. They can try to say the Liberals were worse but that is never the position you want to be running from in an election.

Shakeyhands · May 12, 2008

Wow, pretty convincing. Sadly ignores the fact.
This Government is more accountable, and transparent than any we have seen in 15 years. It has more integrity than any Liberal Government in the last 50 years.

But maybe repeating three words, somehow detracts from your lack of an argument.

MB, Can you please show me a couple of instances where this government has been transparent? Seriously, I can't think of a single instance. Maybe I just missed it.

madmax · May 12, 2008

I think it is pretty straightforward.

She was involved in more then one Outlaw biker gang. SHe is tied to Mom Boucher, one of the most notorious of Hells Angels. Her ex Boyfriend was executed. She was involved with Rock Machine...

Nope, just because she is on the arm of a Quebec MP and Cabinet Minister is no reason to look into the matter.

DUH!!!!

I wouldn't be surprised to discover that Bernier is a helpless Dupe.

But if he is more involved, is this that much different then the CPC candidate who was involved in an Autotheft Ring?

It is not unusual for corrupt people to want to infiltrate power.

I think it would be prudent of the current government to realize that open and transparent, means, keeping themselves squeeky clean, and letting the public know that if they are going to be tough on Crime, that means not letting those with ties to organized crime through the front door.

Right, Ties to Organised crime, associated to convicted criminals of Outlaw Bikers.

Why does the CPC defend the undefendable to a fault.

Bernier will be vindicated or sacrificed depending on his association. While it is not unreasonable to assume that at some point a politician might shake the hand of an Outlaw biker unknowingly, I cannot believe for a minute that Bernier didn't know the background of his Girlfriend, or the people she associates with.

Edited May 12, 2008 by madmax

madmax · May 12, 2008

MB, Can you please show me a couple of instances where this government has been transparent? Seriously, I can't think of a single instance. Maybe I just missed it.

Don't worry, they won't deal with it directly or any other matter, different then any other government. Remember, Mulroney was plagued with Corruption and paid the price. Chretian era Liberals hid the corruption for decades and finally paid the price.

The CPC does damage control.

Defending Association to Outlaw bikers, while claiming to get tough on crime or be open and transparant....

Well, all those flyers that arrive at the door telling us about their tough policy, is not going to offset the Medias field day with the story.

It has all the elements to sell copy.

CRIME!!!

A Beautiful Woman

POLITICS!!!

Juicy, Juicy Stuff....

guyser · May 12, 2008

As long as the CPC isn't as corrupt as adscam ...

I see the whine song "liberals did XYZ and thats worse" is how you will measure the CPC's? OK thanks !

I see plenty of people forgot she was listed as his travelling companion, meaning she will be , or rather would have been, in the company of high placed Fed employees.

Yes , how silly of us, no concern there.

(unless one talks to security experts who all said sure this needs to be looked into--- but experts dont have anything on the CPC'ers here ... but the liberals....)

Such integrity, such transparancy .

madmax · May 12, 2008

I see the whine song "liberals did XYZ and thats worse" is how you will measure the CPC's?

I would be surprised if the Quebec Media are portraying it like the spin you received. Especially since the Quebec Media have been the target of assasination by the Hells Angels.

BubberMiley · May 12, 2008

The only stench around here wafts up from your lame attempts at slamming anyone who doesn't share your vile hatred for the Government. Your inability to justify your ignorant attacks is symptomatic of a lack of integrity on your part!

You can always tell when the CPCers are desperate, guilty, and trying to distract attention from their corruption: they say anyone who criticizes them has a "vile hatred of the government" and then they slime the Liberals.

fellowtraveller · May 12, 2008

The "Liberal stench" isn't alone in the air over Ottawa. The CPC are getting pretty ripe themselves.

Just a rough mathematical comparison, but the Tories have to steal at least another $198 million or so before the next election to even tie the Liberals on that count.

I know they can make it if they try hard.