TTC Strike averted

[M.Dancer]

The tentative three-year contract must still be ratified by the union's members, but if approved, it will give the TTC's 8,900 bus, subway and streetcar drivers, mechanics and janitors 3-per-cent annual raises and phased-in improvements to their benefits. The deal will make TTC drivers the best paid in the greater Toronto area, Mr. Kinnear said. Neither side would release a price tag on the settlement

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

So here we are with the spectre of a recession looming and the city struggling to keep school resources and even schools open.....

3% per year seems overly generous.

I really wish that when the city negotiates with large public service unions, that the contracts could be ratified by those who pay for them. I would welcome contract referendums.

[eyeball]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

So here we are with the spectre of a recession looming and the city struggling to keep school resources and even schools open.....

3% per year seems overly generous.

I really wish that when the city negotiates with large public service unions, that the contracts could be ratified by those who pay for them. I would welcome contract referendums.

Ditto for politician pay-raises.

[CLRV]

Re:City braces for TTC strike

April 18

As a young worker in the service sector, I know what the consequences of the ongoing economic slump in Ontario can be. According to a recent United Way study, just under 30 per cent of Toronto lives below the poverty line, even while most are still working full time. I am included in that number.

If we continue to lose good-paying jobs in the manufacturing and public sectors, then the future is bleak for working-class Canadians.

For this reason, I find myself emotionally invested in seeing that the TTC workers win all their demands. It is the unions and their battles for better conditions over the last half-century that have brought our standard of living to the level it is. And the unions are still our best chance of saving those standards from a collapse.

Julian Benson, Toronto

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/416074

Nice to see someone intelligent enough for enlightened self-interest.

[M.Dancer]

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/416074

Nice to see someone intelligent enough for enlightened self-interest.

I'm not sure how paying someone $1000.00 per week to collect token is going to help those under the poverty line. Especially since the City is struggling to find funding, it seems that those who need the money will have to look else where if the city can't pay...

On top of that, those who need the TTC the most will find that in order to pay $1000.00 a week to someone who collects tokens will find trhe cost of riding the TTC will jump quite a bit.

[eyeball]

I'm not sure how paying someone $1000.00 per week to collect token is going to help those under the poverty line.

You haven't heard about the trickle down theory?

[M.Dancer]

You haven't heard about the trickle down theory?

I have and it is generally applied to the manufacturing in the private sector.

Her we have a differnt trickle down theory....in order to pay they raise taxes, tax payers are left with less money to inject into the economy....manufacturers are given heftier tax bills reducing profits and capital to expand and to hire more private sector workers.

Best way to ensure slow growth(or negative growth) and unemployment is to have an inflated public sector payroll.

And the poor get poorer ....

[eyeball]

I thought it was applied to wealth in general. Why doesn't Toronto try to increase its revenues by cutting taxes, or is that little trick just theoretical as well?

[M.Dancer]

I thought it was applied to wealth in general. Why doesn't Toronto try to increase its revenues by cutting taxes, or is that little trick just theoretical as well?

When you cut taxes you must also cut expenses. Currently they are looking at closing schools and pools.

But hey, what's a $1000. per week for a ticket clollector?

[CLRV]

Obviously this man knows the dirty little secret: TTC employees don't pay taxes on the money they make. They don't spend money in the private sector either, so don't try any nonsense about spending stimuli.

In fact, TTC employees just take their money home, make a big pile out of it and writhe nude all over it until the next time their cushy, so-easy-a-monkey-could-do-it shift rolls around.

Meanwhile, lets go with this as long as we're advocating letting minimum-wage income slaves vent their spleen by dictating the wages of people who happen to make more money than they do (as opposed to venting it at, oh say their chiseling employer for not paying them what they are worth).

Add the following to the wish list:

• Layed off workers can now vote on the compensation, bonus and other sundry golden parachute items enjoyed by their former C.E.O.
  
• Investors of companies that tank can vote on same
  
• Consumers can now vote on the price of the items they purchase, weighing it against their informed opinion about such unnecessary factored costs as marketing, promotion, etc.
  

I can come up with others, equally rational, but I trust the point is made.

[M.Dancer]

Obviously this man knows the dirty little secret: TTC employees don't pay taxes on the money they make. They don't spend money in the private sector either, so don't try any nonsense about spending stimuli.

Oh so obvioulsy you know an even bigger secret....we should all be public service employees...afterall, our taxes in the end will be more that what we collect....no, no that can't be it....

Maybe if collectors earned $5000. a week....then they would be taxed more and the schools and pools can stay open?

[M.Dancer]

Meanwhile, lets go with this as long as we're advocating letting minimum-wage income slaves vent their spleen by dictating the wages of people who happen to make more money than they do (as opposed to venting it at, oh say their chiseling employer for not paying them what they are ...

That's just nonsense. While I wouldn't want a say limited to tax payers....but everyone has a stake into whether the TTC is affordable or efficiant.

[M.Dancer]

Add the following to the wish list:

• Layed off workers can now vote on the compensation, bonus and other sundry golden parachute items enjoyed by their former C.E.O.
  
  
• Investors of companies that tank can vote on same
  
• Consumers can now vote on the price of the items they purchase, weighing it against their informed opinion about such unnecessary factored costs as marketing, promotion, etc.
  

I can come up with others, equally rational, but I trust the point is made.

Investors already do get a vote

Consumers vote with their pocket books

If you are going to come up with more suggestions, really try harder to make them rational.

[CLRV]

And maybe if the owners of downtown skyscrapers hadn't gotten a huge, retroactive cut in their property taxes a few weeks back, Toronto's residential taxes wouldn't have gone up so high the next week.

Save your anger for the people who are really responsible for your anger. Your argument is against tax cuts, not decent wages.

[CLRV]

If you are going to come up with more suggestions, really try harder to make them rational.

I thought I was being clear that my suggestions were intended as equally "rational" to the one with which you premised this thread.

[M.Dancer]

And maybe if the owners of downtown skyscrapers hadn't gotten a huge, retroactive cut in their property taxes a few weeks back, Toronto's residential taxes wouldn't have gone up so high the next week.

Yeah....I mean, aside from providing a place of business and employment for 10s of thousands...what beneift do they offer?

[M.Dancer]

And maybe if the owners of downtown skyscrapers hadn't gotten a huge, retroactive cut in their property taxes a few weeks back, Toronto's residential taxes wouldn't have gone up so high the next week.

Sorry, I can't find that item in the news...

[eyeball]

When you cut taxes you must also cut expenses.

What!?! Government income is supposed to increase when it reduces its revenue.

[eyeball]

How well paid are Toronto firefighters?

Some folks celebrate their last home mortgage payment by setting fire to their loan agreement. Lately, some people behind on their mortgages are simply setting fire to their homes.

Story

[M.Dancer]

How well paid are Toronto firefighters?

Just slightly better than TTC ticket collectors...

[WarBicycle]

This ticket collector earned $100,000 including overtime, not bad for a no-brainer job.

Edited April 21, 2008 by WarBicycle

[Guest American Woman]

This ticket collector earned $100,000 including overtime, not bad for a no-brainer job.

From the article cited:

To get on that $100,000 Sunshine List, TTC station collector Candido Barreiro had to work overtime working overtime.

More than 1,000 hours worth in 2007 to be precise. So he is on that famous list but to achieve it, he definitely didn't see very much sunshine. "I worked 421 shifts," the 46-year-old said last night at the Bay and Bloor station, chuckling.

His poor family would love to see the guy one of these days.

I suggest those who are complaining about the TTC salaries apply for the job themselves (since it's a "no-brainer job" I'm sure anyone here would qualify). Then you could work as many hours as this man apparently did, and you too can make $100,000. If you think it's worth hardly ever seeing your family to make $100,000, go for it. Myself, I think I'll settle for less.

It sounds as if some people are forgetting that people fought long and hard for unions for a reason, and it also sounds as if the TTC workers are benefitting from that, as more people should be. The answer isn't paying people with decent pay less, it's paying people with sucky pay more.

But I look at the price of real estate in Toronto, the cost of living and raising a family there, and I'm thinking $52,000 a year wouldn't make one rich. But look at the bright side-- the more they make, the more taxes they pay back into the system.

Edited April 21, 2008 by American Woman

[M.Dancer]

But I look at the price of real estate in Toronto, the cost of living and raising a family there, and I'm thinking $52,000 a year wouldn't make one rich. But look at the bright side-- the more they make, the more taxes they pay back into the system.

If there wages didn't come out of the system...

Look at it this way,

A makes 1000 a week from the public purse $52,000....taxes paid about $15000.....the public purse is now short $37,000

[eyeball]

It sounds as if some people are forgetting that people fought long and hard for unions for a reason, and it also sounds as if the TTC workers are benefitting from that, as more people should be. The answer isn't paying people with decent pay less, it's paying people with sucky pay more.

But I look at the price of real estate in Toronto, the cost of living and raising a family there, and I'm thinking $52,000 a year wouldn't make one rich. But look at the bright side-- the more they make, the more taxes they pay back into the system.

My brother gave up his non-union trucking job for the TTC a few years ago and he's never looked back. His buddies in the trucking industry are starving and he just came off a 4 month paid maternity leave. He says the TTC is usually looking for people to replace retirees.

I've been checking out BC Ferries myself, the appeal of a union protected government job providing public transit is looking better all the time given the increasing cost of private transportation. On the subject of sucky jobs tourism is sure looking like a loser this year and local developments are being put on hold. Oh well, its been a good 6 years or so...it seems that's about as long as most people get out of the average occupation around here. The only exceptions seem to be the union protected government jobs...hmmmm.

[Guest American Woman]

If there wages didn't come out of the system...

Look at it this way,

A makes 1000 a week from the public purse $52,000....taxes paid about $15000.....the public purse is now short $37,000

Looking at it that way, evidently TTC workers are supposed to be working for free. But even by your example the public purse isn't short $37,000 since the service is taking in money; people aren't using it for free.

[eyeball]

...taxes paid about $15000...

Well, there's your problem right there, eliminate these and easy street will be right around the corner. Works every time.