Deaths of Aboriginal Children

[DangerMouse]

If you weren't such a dense goofball you would get it by now.

I also eat Indian food (no, not native american food, food from people from a country far, far away --> India!) so does that make me Indian? Should I dress in a Sari and get a Bindi dot?

The POINT (if you can ever get it) is that we dipped, but we did not profit from it. Our government allows natives to dip for fish (as per tradition) but they are not to sell the fish for a profit. They are to take home and feed to your children. BUT many natives sell the fish and buy booze rather than food for the chldren.

You people don't give a rat's ass about "tradition" or "nature"... tell me, did the natives replant every tree they took for building longhouses, canoes, totems? Hmmm?

So an indian sells something and it's not traditional and you can fish and call it recreation? No No! You are assimilated as a native At least the natives have tradition that has been beat to the ground by all you fine--know everything in the book europeans--at least it is their songs, dances, and history...you have Bart Simpson, Take Me out to the Ballgame...oh by the way--what is the meaning behind the squaredance?

[AngusThermopyle]

at least it is their songs, dances, and history

Yeah, fine grasp of tradition. Thats why an old white guy in town here makes their ceremonial drums for them. They don't know how. A truly impressive grasp of tradition.

[DangerMouse]

Yeah, fine grasp of tradition. Thats why an old white guy in town here makes their ceremonial drums for them. They don't know how. A truly impressive grasp of tradition.

All these years overgrown whiners like you whine about how indians should assimlate and now that some are--it's some great wrong in your Know-everything-in-the book arse...angus, you have nothing worthwhile to contribute with your juvenile rhetoric...so run along now...

[Who's Doing What?]

All these years overgrown whiners like you whine about how indians should assimlate and now that some are--it's some great wrong in your Know-everything-in-the book arse...angus, you have nothing worthwhile to contribute with your juvenile rhetoric...so run along now...

Nothing wrong at all with natives assimilating. In fact I would encourage all natives to join our society instead of clinging to a lost lifestyle that was barely sustainable way back when.

[DangerMouse]

Nothing wrong at all with natives assimilating. In fact I would encourage all natives to join our society instead of clinging to a lost lifestyle that was barely sustainable way back when.

Why would they want to be shallow ethnocentric phonies with dollar signs buggin out of their eyeballs? Why would they want to pay some salon to tan their skin brown and run around without fullhead of hair? Why would they want to be cranky old farts?

Here's a question for all you bright lightbulbs...how do you define Canadian society? Can't wait to hear your excellent responses

[DangerMouse]

Yeah, fine grasp of tradition. Thats why an old white guy in town here makes their ceremonial drums for them. They don't know how. A truly impressive grasp of tradition.

Your full of it! Quit making up stories for forum purposes...get a life--get a grip

[August1991]

I have proven those figures on a number of occasions. You must have slept through the class.

The $1600 comes from the INAC list of transfers cited before. INAC eats up about $3-4 billion in ministry administration costs. Then deduct from that the private non-native contractors hired to deliver many of the programs, and the cost of band administration that is used to track the money through mounds of paperwork.

What it boils down to is that using Six Nations as an example, one of the largest reserves in Canada, they only receive about $1600 per capita.

Maybe I was asleep. But if I understand properly, there are many middlemen between the taxpayer and an ordinary Indian. I'm angry and you're angry.

Why didn't the Neo-Cons follow the Kelowna Accord through ? If you blindly allow an entire segment of the poulation to fall through the cracks, it DOES have an effect on the country as a whole.

Kelowna Accord? Paul Martin's Liberal gift to the Canadian Indian and the Canadian taxpayer?

Rather, a Liberal gift of more money for a bunch of (politically interested) middlemen.

-----

I'm sorry to be partisan but I can't help myself. This whole Liberal charade has to stop. Aboriginal kids are dying and taxpayers are pissed off. Everyone loses. We shovel boatloads of cash to Indians but they never get it and it doesn't protect anyone.

Canada's Indians are like Haiti. Every do-gooder left wing NGO study research group has made a pilot project mission to help them and the end result is greater poverty.

This has to change. For a start, no more money. (It won't hurt anyone anyway because according to CR, they don't get it.)

[dismissive tone]Kelowna Accord - whatta joke.[/dismissive tone]

Edited May 12, 2008 by August1991

[noahbody]

Here's a question for all you bright lightbulbs...how do you define Canadian society? Can't wait to hear your excellent responses [/font]

Canadian society is ever-evolving. There have been times such as the Depression when it was about family survival, but today it is mostly about individual identity and success.

The native culture, IMO, is about group identity and survival. The success of the individual isn't given much importance. And if it involves joining mainstream society, it can be seen as leaving the group and culture behind.

[Wild Bill]

Canadian society is ever-evolving. There have been times such as the Depression when it was about family survival, but today it is mostly about individual identity and success.

The native culture, IMO, is about group identity and survival. The success of the individual isn't given much importance. And if it involves joining mainstream society, it can be seen as leaving the group and culture behind.

Traditional cultures work only during traditional times. Native traditional culture might still work if natives chose to live a traditional lifestyle along with it.

If they want to live a modern lifestyle then their traditional culture is ill-equipped to cope. It won't work. It is not self-sustaining. It requires a perpetual welfare cheque.

This saps pride and spawns defensiveness. Natives cannot take pride in contributing to the modern world in any practical sense. They cannot invent a new machine or a cure for cancer. They retreat behind 'spiritual' contributions, which cannot be weighed, measured or defined. Or eaten. We get higher walls to overcome to deal with the problems. The original issue gets clouded - that traditional cultures don't work very well in modern times.

It would seem that reserves are usually unsuccessful for trying to apply primitive culture to modern situations. If a man places one foot in a stream going in one direction and his other foot in a stream going in another, is it surprising he falls on his ass?

[charter.rights]

Traditional cultures work only during traditional times. Native traditional culture might still work if natives chose to live a traditional lifestyle along with it.

If they want to live a modern lifestyle then their traditional culture is ill-equipped to cope. It won't work. It is not self-sustaining. It requires a perpetual welfare cheque.

This saps pride and spawns defensiveness. Natives cannot take pride in contributing to the modern world in any practical sense. They cannot invent a new machine or a cure for cancer. They retreat behind 'spiritual' contributions, which cannot be weighed, measured or defined. Or eaten. We get higher walls to overcome to deal with the problems. The original issue gets clouded - that traditional cultures don't work very well in modern times.

It would seem that reserves are usually unsuccessful for trying to apply primitive culture to modern situations. If a man places one foot in a stream going in one direction and his other foot in a stream going in another, is it surprising he falls on his ass?

You couldn't be more wrong WB.

What you are suggesting that is that religious observances like Christmas and Easter can't be real because the culture that created them is long past. Living a traditional lifestyle has nothing to do with practices of the past and more to do with the way that life is approached. Just the same way living in as a metrosexual for some is a lifestyle choice complete with social rituals and icons that support the (imaginary) cultural archetype.

Native people generally use traditions as a cultural root in the same way that Christians flock to church during the Easter observance. It reminds them of some principles and points of view they live from. Cultural practices such as hunting, fishing and harvesting, doing sweats and holding ceremonies are practiced by many urban natives without interfering with their daily work ethic. Some even go so far as to carry the 7 teachings with them into the workplace - something that makes them more valuable employees than most.

The fact that you misunderstand the spiritual connection that some native hold dear is nothing more than ignorance from a far removed colonial contrastive amateur. If YOU understood the connection between your thoughts just to your everyday living that would be a stretch. So have an inferior perspective of life and the interconnectedness of all things is your downfall. You couldn't understand stand spirit without also revealing the lies you must tell yourself as reasons for getting out of bed each day.

Native culture is anything but primitive and I would go so far as to suggest that it is far advance of our own. We have become dependent on machines and processed materials to a degree that you would likely starve i suddenly the internet and power grid broke down and you no longer had access to either deliveries or money. On the other hand most natives - even urban ones - would have little trouble finding the basic necessities to survive long bouts of low food supply, and failing that the general philosophy would almost guarantee that other native people would help support them. At the same time an urban native directly competes with people from all other origins for professional positions around the world. Being of both worlds is an advantage, not a disadvantage as you so ignorantly and backwardly believe.

[Who's Doing What?]

You couldn't be more wrong WB.

What you are suggesting that is that religious observances like Christmas and Easter can't be real because the culture that created them is long past. Living a traditional lifestyle has nothing to do with practices of the past and more to do with the way that life is approached. Just the same way living in as a metrosexual for some is a lifestyle choice complete with social rituals and icons that support the (imaginary) cultural archetype.

Native people generally use traditions as a cultural root in the same way that Christians flock to church during the Easter observance. It reminds them of some principles and points of view they live from. Cultural practices such as hunting, fishing and harvesting, doing sweats and holding ceremonies are practiced by many urban natives without interfering with their daily work ethic. Some even go so far as to carry the 7 teachings with them into the workplace - something that makes them more valuable employees than most.

The fact that you misunderstand the spiritual connection that some native hold dear is nothing more than ignorance from a far removed colonial contrastive amateur. If YOU understood the connection between your thoughts just to your everyday living that would be a stretch. So have an inferior perspective of life and the interconnectedness of all things is your downfall. You couldn't understand stand spirit without also revealing the lies you must tell yourself as reasons for getting out of bed each day.

Native culture is anything but primitive and I would go so far as to suggest that it is far advance of our own. We have become dependent on machines and processed materials to a degree that you would likely starve i suddenly the internet and power grid broke down and you no longer had access to either deliveries or money. On the other hand most natives - even urban ones - would have little trouble finding the basic necessities to survive long bouts of low food supply, and failing that the general philosophy would almost guarantee that other native people would help support them. At the same time an urban native directly competes with people from all other origins for professional positions around the world. Being of both worlds is an advantage, not a disadvantage as you so ignorantly and backwardly believe.

No, I think Wild Bill hit it pretty close to home. Natives are trying to keep alive an old-style society, while trying to enjoy a modern lifestyle. It doesn't work. It can't work. One or the other.

[DangerMouse]

No, I think Wild Bill hit it pretty close to home. Natives are trying to keep alive an old-style society, while trying to enjoy a modern lifestyle. It doesn't work. It can't work. One or the other.

You guys are pathetically screwed... CR hit it on...the rest of you are all a bunch of bimbos...what kind of cockeyed ethnocentric opinion is that Are all you rightwing nuts thinkers like that? Good Grief...all you arses can go out and play with your toys and hunt and fish and call it recreation but, in reality your an assimilated indian therefore the culture is alive and well...what about easter and xmas etc....go drink some more whiskey wild Bill font]

[Who's Doing What?]

You guys are pathetically screwed... CR hit it on...the rest of you are all a bunch of bimbos...what kind of cockeyed ethnocentric opinion is that Are all you rightwing nuts thinkers like that? Good Grief...all you arses can go out and play with your toys and hunt and fish and call it recreation but, in reality your an assimilated indian therefore the culture is alive and well...what about easter and xmas etc....go drink some more whiskey wild Bill font]

If I am an assimilated Indian then you are simply a lost Asian.

"I knew I shoulda turned left at Kamchatka."

[DangerMouse]

If I am an assimilated Indian then you are simply a lost Asian.

"I knew I shoulda turned left at Kamchatka."

You still didn't get it! You just help me make a point though (TY Very Much)as everyone is saying that the aboriginal culture is lost, and meanwhile we have a bunch of rednecks, and whites, running around out in the country hunting and fishing, throwing spears etc etc and are doing what the natives done to live long ago They call it recreation, but when you look at it from your perspectives, they are assimilated into the native ways Therefore the culture is alive and well? Isn't it so convenient for all you lightbulbs to look at things from one narrow minded perspective? Some times I read these posts in disbelief and can only say one thing--if you all knew how you look and knew the truth, then you'll realize the foolishness that you have

[M.Dancer]

You still didn't get it! You just help me make a point though (TY Very Much)as everyone is saying that the aboriginal culture is lost, and meanwhile we have a bunch of rednecks, and whites, running around out in the country hunting and fishing, throwing spears etc etc and are doing what the natives done to live long ago

Not sure who is throwing spears but hunting and fishing have been a part of western culture long, long before the indians aboriginals discovered the wheel...

Edited May 13, 2008 by M.Dancer

[Wild Bill]

Not sure who is throwing spears but hunting and fishing have been a part of western culture long, long before the indians aboriginals discovered the wheel...

Excuse me, but I thought they never did discover the wheel? Or at least, never made use of it. I've never heard of them using wagons.

Perhaps you could cite me a link...

[M.Dancer]

Excuse me, but I thought they never did discover the wheel? Or at least, never made use of it. I've never heard of them using wagons.

Perhaps you could cite me a link...

They discovered the wheel early in the 17th century. By the 18th century they discoverd the axel.