RCMP raids Tory party headquarters

[jdobbin]

Don't worry - liberals manufacture problems...that's the nature of their buisness...start the fire- scream fire like a hero - then sell bandages outside the burned down theatre. Liberals have exaulted dogs to a higher level than children or male heads of traditional families..I hope they engineer themselves right into hell...can't stand the typical liberal who looks for fault and sells the solution to his fellow parasitic bureacrats who in turn send us the bill for fixing a problem they found....I say forget about the conservative greed..so what else is new? Lets move on.

And where do you fit in to this?

[punked]

Don't worry - liberals manufacture problems...that's the nature of their buisness...start the fire- scream fire like a hero - then sell bandages outside the burned down theatre. Liberals have exaulted dogs to a higher level than children or male heads of traditional families..I hope they engineer themselves right into hell...can't stand the typical liberal who looks for fault and sells the solution to his fellow parasitic bureacrats who in turn send us the bill for fixing a problem they found....I say forget about the conservative greed..so what else is new? Lets move on.

What the hell are you saying?

I am not forgetting about the conservatives buying an election if that is what you are saying although I can not tell if that is what you are saying or if you are accusing the Liberals of setting fire to theatre?

[sharkman]

We can't get the election back but if there are criminal charges against the Tories and if some go to jail, it would certainly give people an idea of the seriousness of what Elections Canada believes was a violation of the law.

I'm sure in you dream about jail time for this case, but back in the world of reality, they may have to give the money back. Any chance of the Liberals giving back the 200 million from Adscam? Not likely.

[Oleg Bach]

I'm sure in you dream about jail time for this case, but back in the world of reality, they may have to give the money back. Any chance of the Liberals giving back the 200 million from Adscam? Not likely.

Maybe Brian Malroney should give the money back he won in the suit...You know - when he was so deeply insulted for being called a crook...and he sued the government and got a couple of million dollars....funny - then years later we find out he was guilty after all.....How come no one has gone over to his bank and frooze his account and got the money back that one of his judge friends stole from the tax payer and gave to him? You can do what you want in Canada if you are connected.

[sharkman]

Maybe Brian Malroney should give the money back he won in the suit...You know - when he was so deeply insulted for being called a crook...and he sued the government and got a couple of million dollars....funny - then years later we find out he was guilty after all.....How come no one has gone over to his bank and frooze his account and got the money back that one of his judge friends stole from the tax payer and gave to him? You can do what you want in Canada if you are connected.

Oleg, you've made many posts this morning/afternoon, and they all ramble over several topics and do not address the comments nor the thread topic. Could you dumb it down a little for us please?

[Oleg Bach]

Oleg, you've made many posts this morning/afternoon, and they all ramble over several topics and do not address the comments nor the thread topic. Could you dumb it down a little for us please?

Hi guys...over at the loft watching the mutts and have not had access to a computer. Maybe I will just eat some smoke oysters and shut up. Sorry - just being statesman like with very limited time to do it in so forgive me for not reading the threads....Rambling is no bad you know..kind of free styling in Toronto...so how is the weather in Alberta? I'm getting a bit tired of clicking the keys...nice to have you acknowledge me for a moment...keep up the good work....now lets see what the eldest girl has in her fridge..to bad the gin is all gone...not that I had any today...wait...look! over there....a Mango! See you later and thanks for putting up with this poor un-educated and bitter man...not really..maybe I will go home and paint..better yet practice my soaring electric guitar solos...for an old guy the kids at the club adore me.....might even have an affair..thank God I did not give the wife the keys to my new place....NOW THAT WAS A RAMBLE....Love you gus and keep up the diligent effort! Thankful as always...Oleg*

[Qwerty]

And if Elections Canada hands this over the RCMP for criminal prosecution, I'm sure we are going to hear from the Tories that Elections Canada is full of Liberals out to get them.

Jdobbin, some days you have some insightful things to say but this borders on comedic relief, gimme a break. Elections Canada needs to find proof of any wrong doing and they have yet to do so, they are still just accusations. Everyone seems to forget that.

Elections Canada stated today. That every political party has creative accounting practices but "found this move was being a little too creative."

In addition the amount in dispute keeps shrinking as well. It was 1.3 mil, then 1.1 mil., now it is $1 mil.

[Argus]

Is that what the Tories said when the RCMP said they were investigating Goodale in the election? No, they passed judgment although the RCMP said they had no evidence Goodale did anything wrong.

It didn't matter if Goodale himself leaked the information. Someone in his department leaked it. The rule is if that happens the minister resigns in disgrace.

[Argus]

Prove the liberals did the same thing. Do you even know what the conservatives did? Canadians did not get sick of sleaze and lying to only vote in more sleazy liars and this is what elections Canada is telling us what we got.

The Conservatives, from where I sit, did nothing wrong whatsoever. They discussed this issue because some of them were worried about the legality. They then consulted legal advice, and were told it was perfectly legal. And so they went ahead with it. What more could anyone ask?

Now Elections Canada is saying it's not legal, but this would not be the first time the courts found the interpretation placed on laws by government agencies, be it Elections Canada or Revenue Canada or whomever, was incorrect. All that tells me is the law is bloody complicated even the lawyers and bureaucrats don't understand it.

[Argus]

Prove the liberals did the same thing. Do you even know what the conservatives did? Canadians did not get sick of sleaze and lying to only vote in more sleazy liars and this is what elections Canada is telling us what we got.

Canadians did. I'm betting you didn't.

[punked]

The Conservatives, from where I sit, did nothing wrong whatsoever. They discussed this issue because some of them were worried about the legality. They then consulted legal advice, and were told it was perfectly legal. And so they went ahead with it. What more could anyone ask?

"On Dec. 6, 2005, just days after the election began, Kumpf sent an e-mail to Conservative party officials, wondering if the proposal to have Retail Media place ads on behalf of local candidates would violate the Canada Elections Act: “While our thinking is that this option would be legal, we are not certain beyond all reasonable doubt.”

They were not told it was "it was perfectly legal" they were told it might be legal and went a head with it because they wanted to win and they bought an election. Now they are being investigated because it might now be legal as they thought it might. Next time choose your words carefully because a quote might come back and bite you.

[punked]

Canadians did. I'm betting you didn't.

I did I voted NDP and I will again I am sick of sleaze and I can tell the Torys and Libs are more of the same this just proves it.

[Argus]

Argus, I never said ignorant people should be locked up. I never even said trailer trash types should be locked up. You're free to have you opinion, and I'm free to call it how I see it.

The sad part though, is how much of the CPC's base is made up of intolerant racists like you.

There was nothing racist in what I said. Just because shrill little politically correct vermin like you can't stand the sound of truth doesn't mean I'm going to keep silent on issues of interest.

You can take your "racist" accusations and shove em up your ass.

[Argus]

His statement was not factual at all. It is a bunch of racist redneck crap.

If there's one thing you have managed to demonstrate in a sustained fashion over your time here, it is your complete inability to recognize what a fact is, especially if you don't like it.

Now by coincidence we can take the following from another thread:

Henry Jacek, a political science professor at McMaster University, said the Liberals should take the warning seriously.

"Recent immigrants have been a bedrock of support for the Liberal party," said Jacek,

We have heard that many, many times. And from that it takes a real closed mind to suggest that the massive immigrant populations of Toronto and Vancouver had nothing to do with the Tories being shut out there in the last election.

Calling that statement racist is moronic, but pretty much at the level of most of your pustulant ravings.

[Topaz]

After watching news today, the Conservatives may find themselves without a party! If they are found guilty, commissioner can take away their party standing and have no party once again. The sad thing about this is the newly elected people aren't at fault, it was the heads of party. So now that we know what they did, is it any wonder that they tried to buy off Cadman?? I can just hear Flaherty saying yeah we over spent, but look at what you got for your money!!!!

[Qwerty]

After watching news today, the Conservatives may find themselves without a party! If they are found guilty, commissioner can take away their party standing and have no party once again. The sad thing about this is the newly elected people aren't at fault, it was the heads of party. So now that we know what they did, is it any wonder that they tried to buy off Cadman?? I can just hear Flaherty saying yeah we over spent, but look at what you got for your money!!!!

Firstly, don't tread on ther name of a deadman, it doesn't do your credibility any favors.

Secondly it wasn't public money like Adscam. This money was from donations for the CPC warchest.

And lastly, the liberals are upset because they cannot raise any money compared to the CPC, the LPC is essentially bankrupt. They cannot even afford to run a campaign at this time.

[Argus]

"On Dec. 6, 2005, just days after the election began, Kumpf sent an e-mail to Conservative party officials, wondering if the proposal to have Retail Media place ads on behalf of local candidates would violate the Canada Elections Act: “While our thinking is that this option would be legal, we are not certain beyond all reasonable doubt.”

They were not told it was "it was perfectly legal" they were told it might be legal and went a head with it because they wanted to win and they bought an election. Now they are being investigated because it might now be legal as they thought it might. Next time choose your words carefully because a quote might come back and bite you.

Talking about "choosing your words" you certainly chose those words carefully.

In fact, saying "we're not certain it's legal beyond all reasonable doubt" is pretty much saying he's almost certain it's legal. But that's beside the point. Kumpf is not a lawyer. And after the concerns were expressed to them the Tories did the responsible thing and contacted lawyers and got a legal opinion, and that opinion was that it was legal.

[punked]

Firstly, don't tread on ther name of a deadman, it doesn't do your credibility any favors.

Secondly it wasn't public money like Adscam. This money was from donations for the CPC warchest.

And lastly, the liberals are upset because they cannot raise any money compared to the CPC, the LPC is essentially bankrupt. They cannot even afford to run a campaign at this time.

Firstly you don't get to yell "HE IS DEAD DON"T TALK ABOUT HIM" because he was not speaking ill of him he was speaking ill of the guys who tried to buy him off deal with it.

Secondly it was public money they were getting the 1.1 million dollars back from the election commission because the people they were using for the in and out scheme got 10% of the vote.You see when one gets 10% of the vote they get 60% of the money back from THE GOVERNMENT.

Lastly the Liberals spent the legal limit the key word here the legal limit not he illegal limit.

Nice spin though

[punked]

Talking about "choosing your words" you certainly chose those words carefully.

In fact, saying "we're not certain it's legal beyond all reasonable doubt" is pretty much saying he's almost certain it's legal. But that's beside the point. Kumpf is not a lawyer. And after the concerns were expressed to them the Tories did the responsible thing and contacted lawyers and got a legal opinion, and that opinion was that it was legal.

It defiantly is not saying this is perfectly legal as you have said.

I do not see it as ethical even if it proves to be legal which I don't think it is. I mean look at what they did. They sent money to campaigns they knew would lose, got them to send it back to the party who bought national adds with because the party already reached their spending cap. They would then say these losing campaigns who did not reach their spending limits were the ones using money and almost all of them got 60% reimbursement for that money which they never spent. Sounds like a money laundering scheme to me not an upstanding legal thing to do.

Edited April 22, 2008 by punked

[jdobbin]

It didn't matter if Goodale himself leaked the information. Someone in his department leaked it. The rule is if that happens the minister resigns in disgrace.

The RCMP said they had launched a criminal investigation despite not having any evidence according to the Complaints Commissioner. Then they sent a letter to announce the fact despite years of police practice where they had refused to confirm or deny investigations were taking place. It was all highly unusual. What was also unusual was that fact that former officers refused to testify on any of this.

[jdobbin]

The Conservatives, from where I sit, did nothing wrong whatsoever. They discussed this issue because some of them were worried about the legality. They then consulted legal advice, and were told it was perfectly legal. And so they went ahead with it. What more could anyone ask?

According to many of the links here, some of the Tory candidates and agents are still wondering whether it was legal. When the audits started, figures were changed and could not be accounted for by the people who should have known.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...22?hub=Politics

Elections Canada investigators conducted interviews with 15 of the candidates and-or their official agents. They tried to speak with others, but some 16 people declined to be interviewed, saying they had been advised by Conservative counsel they should not speak without party lawyers present.

Investigators also spoke with Retail Media executives, including chief operating officer Marilyn Dixon, who speculated one invoice filed with Elections Canada "must have been altered or created by someone, because it did not conform to the appearance of the invoices sent by Retail Media to the Conservative Party of Canada with respect to the media buy."

So much for the claim Van Loan says that Conservatives were cooperating. It explains the raid. The altered figured shows why a judge signed a warrant.

[jdobbin]

Firstly, don't tread on ther name of a deadman, it doesn't do your credibility any favors.

Tell that to Brian Mulroney who said that all the people he lobbied for are dead and can't testify.

Secondly it wasn't public money like Adscam. This money was from donations for the CPC warchest.

And lastly, the liberals are upset because they cannot raise any money compared to the CPC, the LPC is essentially bankrupt. They cannot even afford to run a campaign at this time.

It is taxpapyers money. Why apply for a federal rebate then?

[punked]

It is taxpapyers money. Why apply for a federal rebate then?

It is clear they only care when the liberals steal the tax payers money they don't care when their party does it.

[Qwerty]

It is clear they only care when the liberals steal the tax payers money they don't care when their party does it.

LOL. You dare compare some creative accounting of $1 million dollars to the hundreds of millions of dollars outright stolen through AdScam?

Add to the the $2 Billion Gun registry boondoogle....add to that...lol I'll stop there....lol...stop embarrassing yourselves now...please...lol.

[guyser]

LOL. You dare compare some creative accounting of $1 million dollars to the hundreds of millions of dollars outright stolen through AdScam?

Adscam was merely creative invoicing.

Was it wrong? Yes it was. Is "in and out" money wrong? Yes it is.

So we have two criminal groups. Just one that should get a break. The spin here is fun to read , no not just yours.