RCMP raids Tory party headquarters

[Shakeyhands]

Apparently Elections Canada is going to play a little hardball here. Good for them.

The RCMP has raided Conservative party headquarters in Ottawa after receiving a request from Elections Canada.

....

Elections Canada spokesman John Enright confirmed that elections commissioner William Corbett requested the assistance of the Mounties to execute a search warrant, but he wouldn't say why.

I'm a little surprised that it is only two mounties but whatever....

[Canadian Blue]

delete

Edited April 15, 2008 by Canadian Blue

[guyser]

The fallout should be interesting. By fallout I mean of course the payback.

[scribblet]

So when do they raid the the other parties?

[guyser]

So when do they raid the the other parties?

As soon as the "other parties" piss off Elections Canada.

[mikedavid00]

Apparently Elections Canada is going to play a little hardball here. Good for them.

I'm a little surprised that it is only two mounties but whatever....

Well that just shows everyone that (again) Canadian politicians are corrupt and cannot be trusted.

Yes, i'm sure there is a partisan biased involved (which is more evidence of corruption), but it just goes to show the underlying sickness of this country.

Who do we have involved here? Canadian judges, A political party, and the RCMP; The 3 things that make this an awful country to live in.

I know most won't agree with me and I probably stand alone on my stance, but as a political group representing their own country, they should have a respect.. an honor for the good and just reasons in our laws. They should not be searching out loopholes to 'cheat' our own system. That is un noble, and extremely troubling.

Lets all forget about the wording of the actual law. I'm sure there's loopholes. But the law was not designed so you can funnel money locally for federal political reaons and then put some small print at the bottom that it was for a local campaign ad and then get $700,000 of those ads paid for by the tax payer.

That is just corrupt. And it's part of what ruins Canada as a country. Immigration has no reason. it's inner political corruption.

Canada is not a very nice country. It's a very awful, sadistically corrupt nation with sheeps clothing. This happenning with our highest political party doesn't suprise me though. I've been in this country my whole life. I know Canada like the back of my hand. Another day, another Canadian dies on a waiting list and the media sleeps and politicians lie and the dumb Canadians believe as they say.

Back up and think about it. Your gov't, whether right or left or whover you support, took part in knowlingly looking for loopholes of their own laws and own political system (that they support) to do something unboble, unjust, and un becoming so myself, as a tax payer could pay for their campaign ads.

That is pretty sad.

In a way, almost worse than how the Liberals were involved in their scandals.

[mikedavid00]

As soon as the "other parties" piss off Elections Canada.

Funny how you think this sort of thing is 'ok'.

Your used to it like a sad little canuck looking for your political daddy's to brainwash you and tell you what to think.

[daniel]

So when do they raid the the other parties?

You would want that in a 3rd world police-state.

[AngusThermopyle]

Canada is not a very nice country. It's a very awful, sadistically corrupt nation with sheeps clothing.

Sure, whatever.

Its way better in other places, like Haiti or the Sudan.

As for Elections Canada. If this is motivated by spite then they better raid the offices of the other parties as well. Could it be their contention that the other parties are all as pure as the wind driven snow?

[mikedavid00]

Sure, whatever.

Its way better in other places, like Haiti or the Sudan.

As for Elections Canada. If this is motivated by spite then they better raid the offices of the other parties as well. Could it be their contention that the other parties are all as pure as the wind driven snow?

You miss the point though.

The laws of this country should never be attempted to be exploited by our own very political leaders. If it was one of our Parlimentary immigrants who simply do not even know how to sing the national anthem (i saw this live during a session once), then I would understand. These people really don't care deeply about our laws or country. They are elected due to ethic voting and really nothing more.

But the Tories themselves at a national, federal level, actually seeked out this loophole in an ill contempt so the Canadian taxpayer can fund their ads essentially to get them in power?

I mean.. what the hell were they thinking?

With the Liberals, I can easily see how money got put into envelopes and got passed around. That's what our civil service does on a daily basis. But that's not at the federal level.

But to have a political party devise this plan in ill contempt of our own countries laws is just horrible and something that rarely happens in first world countries.

What an awful thing they did and I feel that everyone involved should step down or be kicked out of the party. That even goes for Harper because he was obviously involved.

[guyser]

Funny how you think this sort of thing is 'ok'.

Whats ok? That a party ignored the Elections Canada people to hand over info and got a warrant served on them?....well...uh yeah, that is ok.

Why wouldnt it be. (this should be fun)

Your used to it like a sad little canuck looking for your political daddy's to brainwash you and tell you what to think.

No mikey not even close. I vote for my political daddy's to put them in power, you on the other hand take whatever you get since you are too lazy to get off the couch , oh sorry, it was raining that night and you never voted.

[jdobbin]

Apparently Elections Canada is going to play a little hardball here. Good for them.

Kind of funny that many news organizations don't think that this is a leading news story.

Both Global and CTV have it listed after Hillier's retirement.

More on the story here:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife told CTV's Canada AM said the raid appears to be related to a plan referred to as an "in-and-out" scheme. Under such a plan, money would allegedly be sent to candidates across the country -- up to $50,000 in cash -- which they would then pay back to the central office, claiming it was payment for advertising.

The local ads they have been accused of paying for were allegedly almost identical to national ads, with the addition of a tagline naming local candidates. Critics say the plan allegedly would allow the party to overspend at the national level.

Questions of legality

Fife noted earlier Tuesday that "there are lots of questions about whether this may be illegal or not illegal."

While party officials maintain they didn't break any campaign spending rules, Elections Canada disagrees.

Elections Canada launched a probe a year ago into $1.2 million worth of Tory ads. After the last election, Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand had refused to reimburse 67 Conservative candidates for part of the advertising money when they claimed it as local expenses.

The Tories claim they did nothing wrong.

"It's always been the case that all political parties transfer money in some ridings to the central party," Government House Leader Peter Van Loan told CTV's Mike Duffy Live.

He said it was "absurd" to argue that candidates cannot refer to national issues or their leader in local advertising.

But opposition parties are accusing the Tories of outright fraud.

We already know our prime minister Sue is suing Elections Canada but that apparently was not enough to stop a judge from signing a search warrant or from the RCMP from carrying it out.

I'm a little surprised that it is only two mounties but whatever....

You think the Tories might have tried to oppose them? heh

I'll be Dion is wondering how this would have played out if he had brought down the government last week over immigration.

[jdobbin]

The fallout should be interesting. By fallout I mean of course the payback.

You think Harper is regretting appointing the present Elections Canada commissioner?

[jdobbin]

So when do they raid the the other parties?

I guess when Elections Canada decides that the other parties have broken the rules.

Perhaps you could ask Harper why he appointed the present Elections Canada commissioner. He seemed to think capable at the time.

[guyser]

You think Harper is regretting appointing the present Elections Canada commissioner?

I did not think of that but sure.

I was thinking more along the likes of how "things" dont get done in a Cons riding when a Lib wins and vice versa. I am more aware of it provincially than federally.

[jdobbin]

I did not think of that but sure.

I was thinking more along the likes of how "things" dont get done in a Cons riding when a Lib wins and vice versa. I am more aware of it provincially than federally.

I am familiar with that. When Mulroney won, he decided that Winnipeg would get nothing.

CPAC's forum with Richard Cleroux is saying that Harper accepted the resignation today even though it has been sitting at the PMO for two weeks. He is saying that they announced it today because they needed another story to push the raid off the front page.

[scribblet]

Funny how you think this sort of thing is 'ok'.

Your used to it like a sad little canuck looking for your political daddy's to brainwash you and tell you what to think.

I don't think the raid is ok, in light of the fact that the CPC where not given notice - I watched an interview on CTV tonight where the CPC MP, said they had received no request for the docs. and no notice of the raid. Funny thing tho, the Liberals where there with cameras. This should be investigated.

It is not okay to break the law, but there is no decision yet as to whether the rules have been broken, the CPC has been disputing this for some time now. It was, Conservative money, paying for conservative ads, by conservatives - no public money involved unlike adscam.

Edited April 16, 2008 by scriblett

[scribblet]

You would want that in a 3rd world police-state.

I would want the rules to be enforced equally

"Today Elections Canada visited the Conservative Party of Canada Headquarters. This is related to an on-going court case initiated by the Conservative Party of Canada in the spring of 2007. The Conservative Party has provided Elections Canada with all the information that they have requested."

[jdobbin]

I don't think the raid is ok, in light of the fact that the CPC where not given notice - I watched an interview on CTV tonight where the CPC MP, said they had received no request for the docs. and no notice of the raid. Funny thing tho, the Liberals where there with cameras. This should be investigated.

The judge signed the warrant. The judge obviously thought there was cause.

Are you suggesting the Liberals were there with cameras *before* the raid started?

It is not okay to break the law, but there is no decision yet as to whether the rules have been broken, the CPC has been disputing this for some time now. It was, Conservative money, paying for conservative ads, by conservatives - no public money involved unlike adscam.

Elections Canada rebates are taxpayer money reimbursed only when rules are followed. It is our money, not Tory money we are talking about.

Here is what Nik Nanos said many months ago on the issue.

http://www.nikonthenumbers.com/topics/show/46

During what was supposed to be a quiet break between Christmas and New Year’s during the last federal election, the RCMP launched a bombshell allegation against the Liberals. The result was immediate. According to the SES Research election tracking on behalf of CPAC, the percentage of Canadians who trusted Paul Martin dropped an astounding 10 points in one night. This critical juncture changed the landscape, tilting the election from a probable Liberal minority victory to a Conservative minority victory. With the promise of something different, Harper rode a wave of anger directed at the Liberals and broke their 13-year grip on power. More than a year after the 2006 victory, Stephen Harper continues to fare well on the trust and ethics front. One year after his victory, the polling showed that he had increased the percentage of Canadians who considered him the most trustworthy leader by 14 points. Fast forward to the summer of 2007 and we have Elections Canada questioning a Conservative initiative which transferred money from the national campaign to local ridings to fund advertising. Regardless of whether anything improper was done or not, the Conservatives should be wary of any perception that they worked around the intent of the rules.

[jdobbin]

I would want the rules to be enforced equally

"Today Elections Canada visited the Conservative Party of Canada Headquarters. This is related to an on-going court case initiated by the Conservative Party of Canada in the spring of 2007. The Conservative Party has provided Elections Canada with all the information that they have requested."

Apparently, the judge who signed the warrant disagreed that the Tories were cooperating.

[BubberMiley]

Funny thing tho, the Liberals where there with cameras. This should be investigated.

The raid was carried out over several hours. Your attempts to allege the Liberals knew about it beforehand are clumsy at best and typical of the defensive smears your party is becoming famous for.

[Shakeyhands]

I would want the rules to be enforced equally

"Today Elections Canada visited the Conservative Party of Canada Headquarters. This is related to an on-going court case initiated by the Conservative Party of Canada in the spring of 2007. The Conservative Party has provided Elections Canada with all the information that they have requested."

Apparently not Scriblett. As a CPC supporter, the party that apparently think they own the concept of integrity, I would figure you would be upset by this scam and the theft of your tax dollars?

[Who's Doing What?]

I don't think the raid is ok, in light of the fact that the CPC where not given notice - I watched an interview on CTV tonight where the CPC MP, said they had received no request for the docs. and no notice of the raid. Funny thing tho, the Liberals where there with cameras. This should be investigated.

It is not okay to break the law, but there is no decision yet as to whether the rules have been broken, the CPC has been disputing this for some time now. It was, Conservative money, paying for conservative ads, by conservatives - no public money involved unlike adscam.

I just had to check in to see how this one would be spun.

Nice work.

Adscam = public money, very bad

CPC election spending cheating = private money, so it is not bad.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Who's Doing What?

[charter.rights]

I just had to check in to see how this one would be spun.

Nice work.

Adscam = public money, very bad

CPC election spending cheating = private money, so it is not bad.

So in other words if you are going to abuse a public trust, make sure that it is private money and not public money. Now that's real Conservative leadership.....

The CPC is as dirty as the rest of them.

[August1991]

But the Tories themselves at a national, federal level, actually seeked out this loophole in an ill contempt so the Canadian taxpayer can fund their ads essentially to get them in power?

I mean.. what the hell were they thinking?

Loophole? MD, you have a very naive view of politics and the law if that's how you view this.

The Conservatives have done nothing illegal. The campaign finance law allows them to do what they did. And if I understand properly, the purpose was not to obtain taxpayer funds but rather to use the maximum limits on campaign spending.

And MD, if you take the big picture view of this, is it right that the State should limit who can or cannot spend money advertising during an election campaign? At present in Canada, an individual is not free to advertise in support of a political position during an election campaign.

-----

I am more intrigued about the fact that both the Liberal Party and the media were notified about the raid beforehand. Is it usual practice for Elections Canada or the RCMP to invite political parties or journalists with cameras when they are obtaining documents by force?

This charade has all the makings of an insider's Ottawa silly intrigue.

Here is what Nik Nanos said many months ago on the issue.

http://www.nikonthenumbers.com/topics/show/46

Dobbin, that RCMP investigation concerned leaks about changes to income trusts and the budget. It appeared that insider information was leaked to traders presumably for kickbacks of some sort.

This investigation of the Liberals followed a much larger scheme to funnel millions of taxpayer dollars to advertising friends who then shovelled some of the money back to the federal Liberal Party as donations.

The current dispute between Elections Canada and the CPC is not at all comparable. It's noteworthy that all political parties do what the CPC does - but Elections Canada only investigates the CPC. If that's not enough to make people wonder, the use of two RCMP officers is the other tip off that this is all about politics and show.

Edited April 16, 2008 by August1991