Multiculturism is a huge failure

[Argus]

I was chastised for posting this comment because it was assumed that I was addressing the posters instead of the posts. But in fact, I was addressing the posts. Everyone knows that when someone spouts off racist remarks, it is usually because of a lack of knowledge, a bit of ignorance and a lack of empathy.

This thread is full of racist, ignorant remarks directed at anyone that is not a white individual that has immigrated to Canada.

Drivel. Name one racist thing which has been said. I dare you.

While you're doing that, why don't you name one bad things which has been directed at 'any non whie individuals who have immigrated to Canada'.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

I blew off a little steam a little while ago over these same issues. I find the racism particularly offensive

I issue the same dare. Name one racist thing which has been said.

[Argus]

Racism should be debunked before it is censored in my opinion.

That's an interesting comment except that nothing racist has been said here. If you believe otherwise suppose you cite it. I'd be particularly interested in anything I've said which you deem racist.

This topic is actually an example of why this medium can be frustrating. It's difficult to hold an intelligent conversation in the face of those who can't stand to see their preconceptions challenged, and who instantly try to turn the topic away from the subject under discussion and onto what they believe are the many moral failings of whomever is daring to hold contrary views.

There are about three or four people here actually discussing multiculturalsm, and then three or four others who are sniping indignantly from the sidelines because they evidently find themselfs at a loss for anything substantive to contribute other than insults.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

That is true and voila, did you notice the comments afterwards. We are having a dialogue about racism. I don't see it being censored at all.

Except that this topic is about multiculturalism. If you want to have a feel-good thread where you call people names because they don't agree with your own opinions suppose you start another topic.

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't mind being chastised if it creates further dialogue on this issue, which in fact it did. I have lived in many 'white' communities and I have lived in many 'multi-cultural' communities. It offends me to hear these remarks about immigrants and I feel the need to speak out for them.

I was raised in about as white a community as you can imagine. But later I headed for Toronto and found out a Sunday dinner could be something other than roast beef and mashed potatoes. But more importantly, later on again I traveled and I can assure it wasn't on Sun Flight tours. I had to go find a place to live long term, hire some local people, deal with government etc. Very simply I found all I had to do was treat the people with respect and I could get things done. Qu'elle surprise? And it wasn't difficult.

[WestCoastRunner]

Except that this topic is about multiculturalism. If you want to have a feel-good thread where you call people names because they don't agree with your own opinions suppose you start another topic.

Um, I recall you calling certain posters here 'stupid' because they didn't agree with you. It works both ways.

[Argus]

Um, I recall you calling certain posters here 'stupid' because they didn't agree with you. It works both ways.

Your recollection is as faulty as your debating skills. I pointed out to someone who had contributed nothing but insults that stats had already been posted, and if he was too stupid to look at them then I was uninterested in conversing further with him.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Argus

[WestCoastRunner]

Your recollection is as faulty as your debating skills. I pointed out to someone who had contributed nothing but insults that stats had already been posted, and if he was too stupid to look at them then I was uninterested in conversing further with him.

You are using insults. See above. And you are chastising me?

[Argus]

You are using insults. See above. And you are chastising me?

Here is the point you seem to be ignoring. I was discussing the topic. He was insulting me and demanding something which had already been posted. Yes, I responded in kind. So what?

Like him, you are not discussing the topic. Instead you are expressing your outrage that anyone would have a view on the topic which disagrees with yours. Rather than arguing with whatever position, opinion or stats have been made, you've chosen to instead repeatedly post your outrage at the supposed moral failings of those making such arguments.

And I'm waiting for you to discuss the many specific racist statements you claim you've found posted here.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Argus

[WestCoastRunner]

Here is the point you seem to be ignoring. I was discussing the topic. He was insulting me and demanding something which had already been posted. Yes, I responded in kind. So what?

Like him, you are not discussing the topic. Instead you are expressing your outrage that anyone would have a view on the topic which disagrees with yours. Rather than arguing with whatever position, opinion or stats have been made, you've chosen to instead repeatedly post your outrage at the supposed moral failings of those making such arguments.

And I'm waiting for you to discuss the many specific racist statements you claim you've found posted here.

It has been pointed out many times how your posts are based on your 'generalized opinions' that you seem to think that most canadians agree with. You do not provide supporting facts. You have neglected to address my post regarding your projection of your traits onto other people.

[WestCoastRunner]

And I'm waiting for you to discuss the many specific racist statements you claim you've found posted here.

I could do that, however I would end up posting a short novel.

[Michael Hardner]

Talking about these things is a sensitive matter. There is such a thing as an inappropriate post, and if you see one then report it. The board can't, however, ensure that you're not offended by somebody's post.

As I have said, if you see something that is not just offensive but wrong then engage with the poster and post your reasons. If you see something that is inappropriate then report it.

[Michael Hardner]

But let's move on with the discussion, and not bring individual posters into it.

[Argus]

I could do that, however I would end up posting a short novel.

In other words, you can't, but don't have the honesty to admit it. So go away.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

As I have said, if you see something that is not just offensive but wrong then engage with the poster and post your reasons.

You seemed to be suggesting there were racist comments being made here. I'd like to hear what they were.

[cybercoma]

I don't know how racism got inserted into this discussion; I thought we were talking about xenophobia and bigotry. The funny thing about words is that they have meaning.

Edited November 7, 2014 by cybercoma

[Michael Hardner]

You seemed to be suggesting there were racist comments being made here. I'd like to hear what they were.

I said "if"...

[Argus]

I don't know how racism got inserted into this discussion; I thought we were talking about xenophobia and bigotry. The funny thing about words is that they have meaning.

I think we all know that using those terms are meant as a smear just as much as using the term racist or racism. It's what you use as a substitute when even you know that the accusation of racism is too ridiculous to pass muster. But essentially you mean the terms as synonyms.

I note that you have said not one single word about multiculturalism in your numerous posts here. Every single post was just a shot at people who WERE discussing the topic.

In a properly moderated forum you'd be booted for that sort of behaviour.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

I said "if"...

And were there or weren't there?

[cybercoma]

I think we all know that using those terms are meant as a smear just as much as using the term racist or racism. It's what you use as a substitute when even you know that the accusation of racism is too ridiculous to pass muster. But essentially you mean the terms as synonyms.

I note that you have said not one single word about multiculturalism in your numerous posts here. Every single post was just a shot at people who WERE discussing the topic.

In a properly moderated forum you'd be booted for that sort of behaviour.

Yet look at you continuing to antagonize. You would love it if I was booted because that would be one less poster calling you out on your BS.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yet look at you continuing to antagonize. You would love it if I was booted because that would be one less poster calling you out on your BS.

If everybody who did that got booted all you'd have left is a thread full of mostly BS. But getting back to the thread, I think multiculturalism has and will encounter bumps along the way, but it's far from a huge failure. Matter of fact, it's inevitable. If you dont buy that then you will probably go buy some guns and dig a pit under your basement to live in.

[Argus]

Yet look at you continuing to antagonize. You would love it if I was booted because that would be one less poster calling you out on your BS.

Oh please. Calling me out for my BS would involve actually putting forth an intelligent argument against my 'bs'. All you've been able to do is whine about how morally inferior I am. You think that convinces anyone but your fellow ranters?

[Argus]

If everybody who did that got booted all you'd have left is a thread full of mostly BS. But getting back to the thread, I think multiculturalism has and will encounter bumps along the way, but it's far from a huge failure. Matter of fact, it's inevitable. If you dont buy that then you will probably go buy some guns and dig a pit under your basement to live in.

Do you even know what multiculturalism is supposed to be? For one thing, it's the opposite of the melting pot. Opinion polls show Canadians prefer the idea of the melting pot. They want newcomers to blend in and be Canadians not retain their old cultures. So your belief that only a few crazy people with guns oppose multiculturalism is pure nonsense

[Argus]

I think one of the misconceptions around Canada's policy of multicuralism is that it hasn't really been Multiculturalism. Aside from some federal funds for cultural festivals and a little support for a few language schools, Multiculturalism in Canada has been more or less just a kind of laissez-faire concept characterized mostly by feel-good government advertising.

In other words, all those ranters screaming their defense of multiculturalism don't even seem to realize we haven't really been practicing it in Canada. Multiculturalism, the concept, is not merely about accepting and respecting newcomers different cultural habits, but of accepting the fact that they will retain those cultures indefinitely, along with their children and grandchildren. It comes replete with the idea of the cultural mosaic, from which it can't really be parted, and government aid and support for the continuation of their separate cultures similar to what we do for French. True multiculturalism was practiced in parts of Europe, notably England and France, and failed miserably. Canada has actually been much more of a melting pot. Even the defenders of multiculturalism here invariably state that the children and grandchildren of newcomers will be as Canadian as anyone else. Which indicates first, that they don't know what multiculturalism is, and second, that in the end, they actually support the idea of the melting pot.

[Keepitsimple]

I think one of the misconceptions around Canada's policy of multicuralism is that it hasn't really been Multiculturalism. Aside from some federal funds for cultural festivals and a little support for a few language schools, Multiculturalism in Canada has been more or less just a kind of laissez-faire concept characterized mostly by feel-good government advertising.

In other words, all those ranters screaming their defense of multiculturalism don't even seem to realize we haven't really been practicing it in Canada. Multiculturalism, the concept, is not merely about accepting and respecting newcomers different cultural habits, but of accepting the fact that they will retain those cultures indefinitely, along with their children and grandchildren. It comes replete with the idea of the cultural mosaic, from which it can't really be parted, and government aid and support for the continuation of their separate cultures similar to what we do for French. True multiculturalism was practiced in parts of Europe, notably England and France, and failed miserably. Canada has actually been much more of a melting pot. Even the defenders of multiculturalism here invariably state that the children and grandchildren of newcomers will be as Canadian as anyone else. Which indicates first, that they don't know what multiculturalism is, and second, that in the end, they actually support the idea of the melting pot.

That's more or less true here in Canada. The lynchpin of success or failure - or perhaps more of a fulcrum - is the schooling system - both Public and Private. It's imperative that Private schools be tightly tied to the government curriculum. It's also important that both systems have a healthy dose of Canadian history - and not to try and use political correctness to "cleanse" our history. History is more than stories - it's about the context and perspective of the times that led to many good - and bad chapters. As they say, those that do not learn from history - are bound to repeat it. I'm amazed at how little our youth seem to know about Canada - its geography, its Prime Ministers, its political system.......we can do an awful lot better.