Brain Candy Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 (edited) "The reason atheists and skeptics get so upset when I say it’s good to cut down trees is that this world is all they have. If it gets completely wrecked, it’s all over for them. That’s what they believe . . . that life then ends. That’s unless Mother Nature or Father Evolution (whoever they believe made everything) makes some more trees, etc. Of course if it has to start all over again, they have to wait for around 4.5 billion years. That’s what they believe, and I guess that’s a little too long for them to wait. So they get antsy when Christians are a little flippant about creation. But we can’t help it. We don’t value creation as though our life depends on it. That’s because we know and trust Him who made all things, and if humanity wrecks this earth, we have His immutable promise that He is going to make all things new." http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com/2008/03...confession.html Outside this sinful and ugly world, there exists a paradise that is totally disconnected from it, so who cares how much damage we do here! Edited April 1, 2008 by Brain Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Outside this sinful and ugly world, there exists a paradise that is totally disconnected from it, so who cares how much damage we do here! Wow! I actually cant quite manage to convey the sheer amazement your words have engendered in me. You cant be serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Wow! I actually cant quite manage to convey the sheer amazement your words have engendered in me. You cant be serious.I'm certain Brain Candy is being sarcastic to illustrate how NOT sarcastic the original author is. Unfortunately, there are people out here who think like this. You've seen the movie Jesus Camp, haven't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 You've seen the movie Jesus Camp, haven't you? Nope. I've heard some of you talking about it though. Is it a YouTube thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drea Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Nope. I've heard some of you talking about it though. Is it a YouTube thing? Jesus Camp the Movie Doesn't seem to be a YouTube "thingy". LOL Get used to YouTube... it is television/communication devise for the next generation. YouTube ROCKS! *says this middle aged woman* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Nope. I've heard some of you talking about it though. Is it a YouTube thing?You should actually be able to find it at your local Rogers Video. It's worth watching, regardless of where you stand on religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) Sarcastic or not, I don't get the sentiment. Didn't god call us to be good stewards of this planet? Edited April 2, 2008 by Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Leave it to Ray Comfort to point out the downside of living for the next life. Why look after this world when you can escape it all when you die? Ray believes the apocalypse is coming and he will be raptured away to heaven, so he's not going to worry about how many trees get cut down. The truth is that this world is the only one we can prove exists, so it would make more sense if believers in an afterlife valued this one a little more and didn't take it for granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brain Candy Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Didn't god call us to be good stewards of this planet? This is a healthy approach, but it seems like alot of religious people dont approach reality from this perspective. We need more. Edited April 3, 2008 by Brain Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Sarcastic or not, I don't get the sentiment. Didn't god call us to be good stewards of this planet? No Bryan. According to the Bible God gave people dominion over the animals and the plants, to use (or abuse) anyway they sought fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Get used to YouTube... it is television/communication devise for the next generation. Hate to tell you this Drea, but I've been using it since it's inception. I stated thing, not thingy. Ah these computer neophytes with their air of self appointed superiority. In fact I've been into Computers since 81 and have not bought one since... oh... about 95, just build my own. As for the next generation, I highly doubt it. We are finding that Moores law encompasses more than just silicone now, it can actually be used to chart the power and complexity of applications and other communications systems. Its very doubtfull that YouTube will even be around by the time the next generation is ready to utilize the next great communication system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 No Bryan. According to the Bible God gave people dominion over the animals and the plants, to use (or abuse) anyway they sought fit. That's right, the JudeoChristian tradition of man having dominion over the earth played some role in the plundering of natural resources and ecological disasters that plague the world today. But religion is always re-interpreted to suit the times. Look what the Americans have done with the Christian tradition that favoured the poor and condemned the rich as benefactors of an evil system run by the god of this world, namely the Devil. If you watch the most prominent American preachers, you would think their bible says "blessed are the rich!" In the same manner, some Christians are re-inventing their religion to make it respect the earth. More power to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 In the same manner, some Christians are re-inventing their religion to make it respect the earth. More power to them! Lots of power. The economists have legitimized the "have dominion" page taken from the bible and Earth's ecosystems are now regarded as being externalities or outside the economy. One way or another it seems most humans are bound and determined to maintain a dualistic stance with regards to reality. Most will likely insist on still having their cake and eating it too. You can have a natural ecosystem without a human economy but a human economy without a natural ecosystem would take...a miracle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drea Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Hate to tell you this Drea, but I've been using it since it's inception. I stated thing, not thingy. Ah these computer neophytes with their air of self appointed superiority. In fact I've been into Computers since 81 and have not bought one since... oh... about 95, just build my own. Sorry Angus I did not mean anything by it -- but when you said "Is it a You Tube thing" --it came across (to me) as an adult poo-pooing You Tube. As for the next generation, I highly doubt it. We are finding that Moores law encompasses more than just silicone now, it can actually be used to chart the power and complexity of applications and other communications systems. Its very doubtfull that YouTube will even be around by the time the next generation is ready to utilize the next great communication system Why's that? Are there any predictions on how You Tube will evolve as today's kids grow into adults.... IMO, You Tube does what mainstream TV cannot as they have no advertisers to pander to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Why's that? Are there any predictions on how You Tube will evolve as today's kids grow into adults.... IMO, You Tube does what mainstream TV cannot as they have no advertisers to pander to. It's just based on my observations. YouTube can be seen as an extension of earlier software systems such as early IM programs. I remember the hay days of ICQ, everyone was on it. Now we have YouTube and Facebook which are basically a media rich extension of the older IM concept crossed with features of a public forum. Give it a little time and the next great thing will probably replace both of the aformentioned. I use them, but not often. With the freedom to post anything a lot of garbage gets posted. Your point about advertiser free mediums is a good one. It was predicted many years ago that such mediums would grow in influence, as they have. The advertising driven model does not apply to them as it does to other mediums, thats a good thing in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brain Candy Posted April 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 (edited) That's right, the JudeoChristian tradition of man having dominion over the earth played some role in the plundering of natural resources and ecological disasters that plague the world today. But religion is always re-interpreted to suit the times. Look what the Americans have done with the Christian tradition that favoured the poor and condemned the rich as benefactors of an evil system run by the god of this world, namely the Devil. If you watch the most prominent American preachers, you would think their bible says "blessed are the rich!" In the same manner, some Christians are re-inventing their religion to make it respect the earth. More power to them! I think this has happened before, or in some manner was like this in the beginning- most likely from the carry over from the Roman gods it was smashing- and then changed to suit the needs of the industrial revolution and never looked back. Edited April 8, 2008 by Brain Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 I think this has happened before, or in some manner was like this in the beginning- most likely from the carry over from the Roman gods it was smashing- and then changed to suit the needs of the industrial revolution and never looked back. Rather than continuing on with the status quo of raping the planet, religion is supposed to be the moral benchmark that improves lives. At this, it has failed, which makes it utterly pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brain Candy Posted April 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 (edited) Rather than continuing on with the status quo of raping the planet, religion is supposed to be the moral benchmark that improves lives. At this, it has failed, which makes it utterly pointless. I dont think any religion could be that in itself, its been more like an extension of culture and when that has lost its way, its goes down the gutter too as greedy people take advantage of its symbols but not its meaning. Edited April 8, 2008 by Brain Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Rather than continuing on with the status quo of raping the planet, religion is supposed to be the moral benchmark that improves lives. At this, it has failed, which makes it utterly pointless. Every so often, religious leaders who claim to have all the answers in their revealed truth get the cattle-prod of reality and make a few necessary tweaks and adjustments so that they can keep their religions relevant in a changing world. It is usually a slow change, such as when the Christian mainstream was dragged along by reformist sects to change their doctrine that slavery was divinely mandated to the modern concept that it is an abhorrent institution. A quicker change occurred in 1890, when the Mormon Church got a special revelation and abolished the practise of earthly polygamy so that they could avoid an invasion of federal troops and get on the road to statehood. Today, something similar is happening in the evangelical churches in the U.S. Over the last ten years, many Southern Baptist ministers have spoken out publicly against the official church policy towards the global warming issue, and the apparent new leaders of the evangelical movement, like Rick Warren, have taken on ecology as an issue. Warren should be able to reinterpret Christian doctrine as eco-friendly, he already re-invented Christian doctrine of sin, hell and redemption in his popular book - The Purpose Driven Life in order to turn it into a self improvement course. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008...change.religion http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/21/ame.../21evangels.php It's a shame it has to be this way, but it's likely that the majority of people demand a system of beliefs that claims to have all of the important answers in advance. Every time the accumulation of knowledge contradicts their metaphysical claims, there is going to be resistance; but in an orderly society, most pragmatic religious people should be able to switch from faith to reason and re-interpret their faith so that they can accept new knowledge. It doesn't always work this way! For decades it appeared that evolution was being Christianized, but the hardline fundamentalists went to work creating their own version of science and have pretty much turned hostile to the life sciences that have incorporated evolutionary theory into their research. I hope environmentalism doesn't go through the same reactionary process, but only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brain Candy Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 (edited) Approaching war from a dualistic perpective: "The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God’s plan for both Israel and the West… a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ." -Hagee LOL self fullfilling prophecy. When asked in outside of sermons he will give more realistic reasons for this view, but keep in mind this is whats at the heart of it, unless he is a manipulative fraud. Edited April 9, 2008 by Brain Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 (edited) Approaching war from a dualistic perpective:"The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God’s plan for both Israel and the West… a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ." -Hagee LOL self fullfilling prophecy. When asked in outside of sermons he will give more realistic reasons for this view, but keep in mind this is whats at the heart of it, unless he is a manipulative fraud. It's hard to figure what a professional evangelist believes or doesn't believe since the few who have lost faith and left the ministry soon discovered that they their skills and education used for performing before large church audiences, weren't of much use outside of the ministry - so the average Marjoe or Elmer Gantry, may be inclined to carry on with the performance whether they believe it or not. The problem with apocalyptic religion is that bad news is good news for people who are waiting for the end of the world. And really bad news, like atomic bombs going off, would cause rejoicing among the many of the true believers. The really dangerous aspect of apocalyptic belief today is that there are complementary Christian and Islamic endtime theologies: the Christian premillenialist version that you outlined makes a snug fit with the Shiite endtime battle, except in their version, the armies of the East are led by the "Hidden Imam", not the Antichrist. If you consider that a number of people in the Bush Administration, including top military generals, have proclaimed their belief in the Christian version and Iran's Ahmadinejad is waiting for the hidden imam to crawl out of his hole and lead the Islamic nations to victory in WWIII, then they could both be self-fulfilling prophecies. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...4/16/do1609.xml Edited April 9, 2008 by WIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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