Assimilation vs. Integration

[guyser]

The sun does seem somewhat limpid at night...

I concur. But the paperclip would know.

[DangerMouse]

I concur. But the paperclip would know.

When all else fails and the mouse has defeated you--resort to making a mockery of the thread

[guyser]

When all else fails and the mouse has defeated you--resort to making a mockery of the thread

Yes yes you defeated us with your breadth of knowledge and coherence on this issue.

Reminds me of Animal House....."Young dumb and stupid is no way to go through life"

[Melanie_]

It is the thinking that binds them together with the mainstream. Some things - like priest paedophiles - are condoned and protected by society. Violence against women is slowly finding its way out of our acceptance but in some circles - especially in fundamentalist Christian circles - women are still treated as inferior. It is productive to expose and examine the Canadian myth that "all is well" in order to rid ourselves of these kinds of thinking patterns.

As to your point that Canadian culture is many things to many people that is absurd. Culture is concept that binds people together through commonalities. It can't be something to one person and anther thing to another. You have proven by your own point of view that Canadian culture is not real and just another of the many myths that people subscribe to. "Wanting" to have culture is not the same thing as "having" culture.

Not absurd at all, just different from your view. Less concrete, more abstract. I don't feel the need for absolute boundaries and rigid definitions; obviously we have different visions of what culture needs to be, and why it needs to be.

I see a problem in your view that culture binds people together through commonalities. Its the misunderstanding of those commonalities that leads to stereotypes, or to the comments you are making in the first part of your post. Leave your prejudices behind, and see people as individuals, responsible only for their own actions, rather than as representatives of their "race".

[DangerMouse]

Yes yes you defeated us with your breadth of knowledge and coherence on this issue.

Reminds me of Animal House....."Young dumb and stupid is no way to go through life"

Then grow up! Call yourself a man along with all the other rightwing whiners...you're all worse than kids who didnt get their way in a candy store

[Oleg Bach]

Then grow up! Call yourself a man along with all the other rightwing whiners...you're all worse than kids who didnt get their way in a candy store

Extremist rightist and leftists are not real men - a solid centralist who is not interested in conflict but only solutions is the real MAN..If you want to grow up as you say - then remember that you have a left hand and a right and hopefully a mind in the middle caplable of controling both hands! That is balanced, brave and civilzed MAN..and we are few.

[AngusThermopyle]

Then grow up! Call yourself a man

Hate to break this to you but it takes much much more than just calling yourself a man to make you a man. Obviously this is a concept foreign to you.

And you say that natives are the only ones that play bingo!!

Now I have to ask a favour of you. Could you show me where I said that? Really, because I don't recall ever having said that, so if you could show me it would be greatly appreciated.

Edited March 27, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[iForgot]

Assimilation and no more family immigration is the only answer. Anyone who says that immigrants should be forced to keep their ethnic heritage in a new country is a parasite.

[OneNoShine]

Leafless, Argus - am I assimilated?

- Agnostic/don't practice any religions

- Went to school here so able to speak proper English

- No accent

- Dress similar to Westerners

- Call myself Canadian before Indian

- Do not hold any of the traditional values my parents do, basically act like any average white Canadian

- Would fight for Canada if Canada and India ever went into war

What else can one do to be "assimilated?"

[Leafless]

Leafless, Argus - am I assimilated?

- Agnostic/don't practice any religions

- Went to school here so able to speak proper English

- No accent

- Dress similar to Westerners

- Call myself Canadian before Indian

- Do not hold any of the traditional values my parents do, basically act like any average white Canadian

- Would fight for Canada if Canada and India ever went into war

What else can one do to be "assimilated?"

This is controversial because Canada does not have a policy relating to assimilation but does have an 'official multicultural' policy, unilaterally imposed by government.

This IMO defeats any requirement for an immigrant or even Canadian, to be assimilated into the majority Canadian culture.

The country does support integration but this nevertheless allows minorities to overide majority culture, language, customs and traditons legally.

Canada has become a cultural haven for cultural diversity and no longer has the foritude to support its own historical Western identity.

I think Canada is one of the few countries in the world whereas the citizens of the country do not take to the streets because of this.

Unbelievable.

[OneNoShine]

Leafless, I agree but I just wanted to know if there was an official assimilation policy, would immigrants be required to do the things I listed? Do you think I am assimilated was basically my question. I know it is not required by law to assimilate by I do it anyway since I like the Canadian culture, and I notice it makes the White Canadians like me. I always seem to get a smile at the grocery store etc vs my parents who get a grouchy face.

Edited April 1, 2008 by OneNoShine

[OneNoShine]

Leafless where do you live? I am assuming it is either Toronto or Vancouver because otherwise you sound a little melodramatic.

[M.Dancer]

Leafless, Argus - am I assimilated?

- Agnostic/don't practice any religions

- Went to school here so able to speak proper English

- No accent

- Dress similar to Westerners

- Call myself Canadian before Indian

- Do not hold any of the traditional values my parents do, basically act like any average white Canadian

- Would fight for Canada if Canada and India ever went into war

What else can one do to be "assimilated?"

Start not thinking like leafless.....oh, and not mixing coke with the chivas regal would be okay too.....

[AngusThermopyle]

and not mixing coke with the chivas regal would be okay too.....

Oh come on Dancer, you made that up! No one in their right mind would mix coke with Chivas!

Straight up or on the rocks.

[M.Dancer]

Oh come on Dancer, you made that up! No one in their right mind would mix coke with Chivas!

Straight up or on the rocks.

It's a joke, sort of an inside joke. But yes, chivas a coke is popular among older east indians.....younger ones like blue label and seven up

[guyser]

Oh come on Dancer, you made that up! No one in their right mind would mix coke with Chivas!

Straight up or on the rocks.

Damn straight. Why ruin a great glass of coke with chivas? No joke. Coke is meant to be served with a ton of ice, nothing else. No rum, no chivas....nada.

mmm

mmmm

mmmm

[M.Dancer]

Damn straight. Why ruin a great glass of coke with chivas? No joke. Coke is meant to be served with a ton of ice, nothing else. No rum, no chivas....nada.

mmm

mmmm

mmmm

Vodka goes well with coke....diet coke....lots of ice and lots of vodka....with lemon

[guyser]

Vodka goes well with coke....diet coke....lots of ice and lots of vodka....with lemon

ugh...diet coke is to coke that Loblaws 0% beer is to a Grolsch . (it aint coke)

My adage is drink and eat the good stuff, whatever it is , just take it easy on stuff that can harm you.

Light Olive oil...bleech (yea its light..in colour only) margerine...bleech, light mayo..bleech...lite bacon ..oh my I cant believe it... and nothing processed if possible.

Oops , to get back on topic, none of this "assimilation" food or drink for me as it has to "integrate" properly in my taste buds.

There thats better.

Edited April 2, 2008 by guyser

[M.Dancer]

I prefer the taste of diet coke and so do my assimlated thinner brothers and sisters....

[Leafless]

Leafless, I agree but I just wanted to know if there was an official assimilation policy, would immigrants be required to do the things I listed? Do you think I am assimilated was basically my question. I know it is not required by law to assimilate by I do it anyway since I like the Canadian culture, and I notice it makes the White Canadians like me. I always seem to get a smile at the grocery store etc vs my parents who get a grouchy face.

Many immigrants do partly or fully assimilate like you.

Most governments and citizens really want it no other way.

Canada on the other hand has lost its direction in maintaining cultural order, because they cannot control the cultural antics of Quebec, threw up their hands and currently are selling out the country to cultural disorder, to mask their incompetence.

[guyser]

Canada on the other hand has lost its direction in maintaining cultural order, because they cannot control the cultural antics of Quebec, threw up their hands and currently are selling out the country to cultural disorder, to mask their incompetence.

Please show how this is so.

Exactly what mandates the govt have or had to ensure "cultural order" ?

Is there a Govt Hockey dept? Does another mandate maple syrup?

And what about Que? What cultural antics have they thrown their hands up about? Please be specific.

[Alta4ever]

It's a joke, sort of an inside joke. But yes, chivas a coke is popular among older east indians.....younger ones like blue label and seven up

How could anyone ruin scotch like that, no matter the quality.

[Leafless]

Please show how this is so.

Exactly what mandates the govt have or had to ensure "cultural order" ?

The majority White, English speaking, Christian culture, that's who.

You are looking for major problems when you screw the majority culture with foreign imports and Quebec political aspirations.

And what about Que? What cultural antics have they thrown their hands up about? Please be specific.

It is obvious our dysfunctional federal government feels it has no choice (the lefet vs. the right vs. the separatist) outide of kicking Quebec out of confederation, (pertaining to conventional politics) so it caters to Quebecs problamatic cultural demands.

[charter.rights]

The majority White, English speaking, Christian culture, that's who.

You are looking for major problems when you screw the majority culture with foreign imports and Quebec political aspirations.

It is obvious our dysfunctional federal government feels it has no choice (the lefet vs. the right vs. the separatist) outide of kicking Quebec out of confederation, (pertaining to conventional politics) so it caters to Quebecs problamatic cultural demands.

"Who" is screwing the "majority culture with foreign imports"? It wouldn't happen to be that way because the majority wants it that way, now would it..... Thankfully, yours is a minority opinion.

[AngusThermopyle]

Thankfully, yours is a minority opinion.

On this we agree. I have nothing against immigration so long as those who immigrate wish to contribute and live in harmony with other Canadians. The only time I perceive a problem is when faced with those who would freeload and contribute nothing. That being the case I don't give a damn what colour their skin is, a bum is a bum is a bum, so to speak.

Actually for my own selfish reasons I approve of sensible, controlled immigration. I love women, so if I'm given the opportunity to enjoy the company of a greater variety of them then I'm all for that.