Religion is Child Abuse

[Oleg Bach]

Take away the smoke and mirrors of religion and the old book has some useful stuff in it.

[betsy]

Take away the smoke and mirrors of religion and the old book has some useful stuff in it.

Yes.

And for those who remain skeptics about the spiritual aspect...just look at the New Testament as a great "How-to" book.

If you ponder and chew on some of the teachings of Christ, you'll find answers and tips that could change your views and cope with the challenges of everyday life.

Faith does not come instantly. You have to work on it. Don't get distracted.

The door is always open for everyone. Come in and humbly accept Christ. Give yourself to God.

If you have faith, you'll' always have hope. No matter how tough it's gonna be, your attitude will be, "bring it on!"

[BubberMiley]

This is actually good news Bubber! This is the hope of Christ!

No one ever has been able to meet the standard..all have sinned and come short.. The law of the Old Testament was a demonstration of this. Christ is our cover charge...He paid our bail..Rejoice and be glad!

It’s lovely that your ability to suspend rational thought provides you with a sense of comfort and inner peace, but, again, that doesn’t mean your ideas are grounded in reality, or that forgoing rational thought is ultimately a healthy practice for humanity as a whole.

Although a somewhat extreme example, only religion could have ever created the phenomenon of the suicide bomber. Such a mindset could only be created from a religious authority promising eternal rewards in the afterlife. But it is that suspension of rationality, on a broader scale, that puts us all at risk. Religions commonly preach of armegeddon and rapture and chosen peoples and days of reckoning and judgement. Now that humankind has the technology to bring about an apocalypse, it’s simply too dangerous for us to continue to follow ancient texts that instruct us on how it is our destiny for this apocalypse to be carried out.

I see nothing wrong with you trying to pursue a better understanding of how you were created, but I think perhaps you’re being distracted from that goal by the bible itself, which is too full of conflicting, political, mythical and misinterpreted messages to ever offer you an accurate concept of the origin of the universe.

Look inside yourself, which is the closest you will ever come to fully understanding your creator. If this is difficult for you, fortunately the creator was kind enough to provide us with the blessed cannibis sativa to help us along the way.

Give thanks and praise to Jah.

[jbg]

Yesterday, Benjamin Netanyahu said the world does not want nuclear weapons in the hands of Islamists, as Islam is a "messianic apocalyptic cult." I don't disagree, but judeo-christian religions (and others) are equally messianic and apocalyptic.

There may be apocalyptic prophecies or teachings, but Judaism and Christianity in modern times are far less violent.

[BubberMiley]

There may be apocalyptic prophecies or teachings, but Judaism and Christianity in modern times are far less violent.

What are you basing that on? Are judeo-christian countries less violent places than islamist countries? Do they engage in fewer wars? Can you provide data or just impressions?

[jbg]

What are you basing that on? Are judeo-christian countries less violent places than islamist countries? Do they engage in fewer wars? Can you provide data or just impressions?

Why not take a vacation to sunny Pakistan and find out. Or a coastal cruise off Somalia.

[Kitchener]

Why not take a vacation to sunny Pakistan and find out. Or a coastal cruise off Somalia.

Or spend a few days wandering around Mexico City, or East St Louis.

Or just give up on foolish cherry-picking to shore up pernicious bigotry.

[BubberMiley]

Why not take a vacation to sunny Pakistan and find out. Or a coastal cruise off Somalia.

Aain, do you have any statistics that back up your impressions? Or are you just assuming that everyone shares a common hatred of muslim people and would just agree that Pakistan must be a more violent place than New Jersey?

[jbg]

Aain, do you have any statistics that back up your impressions? Or are you just assuming that everyone shares a common hatred of muslim people and would just agree that Pakistan must be a more violent place than New Jersey?

Do you have any basis for believing that it isn't?

[WIP]

There may be apocalyptic prophecies or teachings, but Judaism and Christianity in modern times are far less violent.

But there is nothing stopping them from regressing to more barbaric behaviour. I recently learned about this little study which links frequency of attending worship with support for suicide attacks against enemies:

Re­li­gion plays a role in su­i­cide bomb­ings—but it’s col­lec­tive wor­ship, rath­er than lev­el of de­vo­tion, that fos­ters sup­port for such deeds, a new study con­cludes.

The anal­y­sis found that among Mus­lims and Jews sur­veyed in the Mid­dle East, how of­ten people at­tended a house of wor­ship better pre­dicted their back­ing for su­i­cide at­tacks than did pray­er fre­quen­cy.

Su­i­cide at­tacks—today most of­ten as­so­ci­at­ed with acts against Amer­i­cans or Is­raelis by Mus­lims—seem to be one as­pect of a wid­er phe­nom­e­non in which col­lec­tive re­li­gious rit­u­al fos­ters a mind­set known as pa­ro­chi­al al­tru­ism, ac­cord­ing to psy­chol­o­gists. Pa­ro­chi­al al­tru­ism is a com­bina­t­ion of neg­a­tive at­ti­tudes to­ward an­oth­er so­cial group and sac­ri­fice for one’s own.

Su­i­cide at­tacks would be an ex­treme form of pa­ro­chi­al al­tru­ism, said the psy­chol­o­gists who con­ducted the stu­dy, from the New School for So­cial Re­search in New York and the Uni­ver­s­ity of Brit­ish Co­lum­bia. And when forms of pa­ro­chi­al al­tru­ism oth­er than su­i­cide at­tacks were con­sid­ered, the re­search­ers found many cul­tures and re­li­gions fol­lowed the pat­tern iden­ti­fied in the Mid­dle East.

The in­ves­ti­ga­tors sur­veyed Pal­es­tin­ian Mus­lims about their re­li­gious at­ti­tudes, in­clud­ing how of­ten they prayed and went to mosque. They found that de­vo­tion to Is­lam, as meas­ured by pray­er fre­quen­cy, was un­re­lat­ed to sup­port for su­i­cide at­tacks. But fre­quen­cy of mosque at­tend­ance did pre­dict sup­port for the as­saults.

In a sep­a­rate sur­vey of Pal­es­tin­ian Mus­lim uni­ver­s­ity stu­dents, the re­search­ers found again that those who at­tended mosque more than once a day were more likely to be­lieve Is­lam re­quires su­i­cide at­tacks than less fre­quent at­ten­dees.

The re­search­ers said they ob­tained par­al­lel re­sults from phone sur­veys of Is­rae­li Jews liv­ing in the West Bank and Ga­za. In this case, par­ti­ci­pants were asked about syn­a­gogue at­tend­ance, pray­er habits and wheth­er they would sup­port a per­pe­tra­tor of a su­i­cide at­tack against their Pal­es­tin­i­an foes.

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/090219_suicide.htm

[michele]

I know the line "all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God" is repeated often, but in reality, sins are categorized from common venal sins to the more serious mortal sins -- and most self-professed Christians do not acknowledge that they are guilty of the latter, so they feel free to condemn and feel contempt for people like homosexuals, that they consider to be, by their very nature, guilty of far worse sins. When I was young, there were many Southern Baptists and Mormons who considered blacks to be naturally depraved and inferior because they were the sons of Ham (Noah's cursed third son.)

So, I don't find much evidence that Christians view the doctrine of sin as leveling the playing field or creating some sense of equality. The other problem I see with the doctrine that's usually referred to as "Original Sin," is that many people with addiction problems are already of low-self esteem, and especially the Calvinist interpretation of this doctrine, that "we are worthless sinners undeserving of divine mercy" feeds their sense of futility and hopelessness, instead of improving them.

I'm not sue if this understanding of mine is correct or not but it might be seen as the difference between sins of the flesh and sins of the heart. Those of the flesh being lesser than those sins of the heart. Sins of the heart would be things like jealousy or unforgiveness.

Sins of the flesh would be things like to much food..the wrong kind of sex.

While fornication and gluttony are hated by God he examines the condition of the heart first.

Do you love your neighbor and are you at least trying to keep your heart right about other people and understanding the meaning of throwing the first stone? God examines us in this way because he's good. His judgements and mercies are just and fair. He desires mercy above all else.

[michele]

It’s lovely that your ability to suspend rational thought provides you with a sense of comfort and inner peace, but, again, that doesn’t mean your ideas are grounded in reality, or that forgoing rational thought is ultimately a healthy practice for humanity as a whole.

Although a somewhat extreme example, only religion could have ever created the phenomenon of the suicide bomber. Such a mindset could only be created from a religious authority promising eternal rewards in the afterlife. But it is that suspension of rationality, on a broader scale, that puts us all at risk. Religions commonly preach of armegeddon and rapture and chosen peoples and days of reckoning and judgement. Now that humankind has the technology to bring about an apocalypse, it’s simply too dangerous for us to continue to follow ancient texts that instruct us on how it is our destiny for this apocalypse to be carried out.

I see nothing wrong with you trying to pursue a better understanding of how you were created, but I think perhaps you’re being distracted from that goal by the bible itself, which is too full of conflicting, political, mythical and misinterpreted messages to ever offer you an accurate concept of the origin of the universe.

Look inside yourself, which is the closest you will ever come to fully understanding your creator. If this is difficult for you, fortunately the creator was kind enough to provide us with the blessed cannibis sativa to help us along the way.

Give thanks and praise to Jah.

You said:

Look inside yourself, which is the closest you will ever come to fully understanding your creator.

Yes Bubber..You speak the truth towards believers:

The Coming of the Kingdom of God

Luke 17: 20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

22Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. 24For the Son of Man in his day[c] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26"Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28"It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30"It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32Remember Lot's wife! 33Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."[d]

37"Where, Lord?" they asked.

He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

This was difficult for me Bubber... It was in front of my eyes all the time but l didn't see it.

I had to wait before the Lord with a right heart believing.

[jbg]

Sins of the flesh would be things like to much food..the wrong kind of sex.

Wrong kind of sex? Explain.

[michele]

Of course not! Because blaspheming the holy spirit is the only unforgiveable sin. This is essentially metaphysical blackmail because not taking some "sign" that God is talking to us, no matter how convoluted and obscure it is, means blasphemy. So someone who's afraid this story might be true, is going to do what a person is not supposed to do when evaluating evidence: disregard the its plausibility and believe it anyway. This sort of desperation to believe has to be propped up on a regular basis, and that's why so much emphasis is placed on faith-building and faith-renewal. Apologetics books are churned out constantly, not to prove Christianity to unbelievers, but instead to keep those wavering on the edge from leaving.

I won't, at least I likely won't, because I've taken this journey before and found a lot of smoke and mirrors and no substance. I would be happy if the believers would consider it a personal, subjective worldview that does not necessarily apply to everyone as some sort of one size fits all solution to life's problems.

WIP there is some truth to what you say here:

This sort of desperation to believe has to be propped up on a regular basis, and that's why so much emphasis is placed on faith-building and faith-renewal.

The Lord keeps confirming his voice to me...

If he didn't I would have fallen or bowed to men long ago. He's my daily bread.

I think your right WIP...many of the books supposedly for unbelievers are actually books that strengthen the faith of those new to Christ. They need to be propped up for sure.

One size fits all?.. Christ died for all and his blood covers all who come to him. He said

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me".

John 12: 32

"...one size fits all soultion to life's problems..."..

A great thought for Easter morning!!

Edited April 12, 2009 by michele

[BubberMiley]

Do you have any basis for believing that it isn't?

Good argument. I wouldn't hire you to be a lawyer.

I'm not saying I believe anything. You're the one who made an assertion, and I'm asking you to back it up.

You can't because you're full of shit.

[jbg]

Good argument. I wouldn't hire you to be a lawyer.

I'm not saying I believe anything. You're the one who made an assertion, and I'm asking you to back it up.

You can't because you're full of shit.

To the extent that one can believe the news media, violence in Pakistan is barely news. I mosque bombing in New Jersey most assuredly would be news.

[BubberMiley]

Political violence is always news. And when Israel kills children in Gaza in the name of their religion, that is reported too.

Edited April 12, 2009 by BubberMiley

[jbg]

Political violence is always news. And when Israel kills children in Gaza in the name of their religion, that is reported too.

Israel kills children in the Gaza who are used, in effect, as human shields to ensure that any retaliation against terrorist activity creates a horrific toll.

[tango]

Israel kills children in the Gaza who are used, in effect, as human shields to ensure that any retaliation against terrorist activity creates a horrific toll.

jbg, don't blind yourself.

Israel trapped people in Gaza, and then identified all of them as either terrorists or "human shields" to justify the orders given to soldiers.

The people in the UN compound when it was bombed were not "human shields".

They were refugees from war, seeking shelter.

[jbg]

jbg, don't blind yourself.

Israel trapped people in Gaza, and then identified all of them as either terrorists or "human shields" to justify the orders given to soldiers.

The people in the UN compound when it was bombed were not "human shields".

They were refugees from war, seeking shelter.

I'm not blind.

The terrorists in the Gaza are fighting out of uniform, from civilian areas. The fact of the terrorists' brutality must not make Israel helpless. The Gazans don't seem to be too active in trying to expel the terrorists either.

[BubberMiley]

I'm not blind.

Then what's your excuse? The fact is, no religious group has a monopoly on violence, and even if you had any evidence whatsoever (which you don't) that one religious group is more violent than another, that's kind of irrelevant. It just points out another problem with religion: it tends to pit one irrational person who feels he has god on his side with another. And so many wars have been fought and people have died as a result. Religion has done far, far more harm than good. More people have died from religion than it has saved, and more people have suffered than it has healed. Secular philanthropy is just as--likely more--effective, and it doesn't have the annoying byproduct of violence and hatred between people like jbg and other, equally violent religious groups.