Culture of Fear- Toronto Public Schools

[M.Dancer]

The report's findings show a shockingly high number of violent school incidents.

Since Jan. 13, 2006, the panel says it found 177 violent incidents in schools across the district — they include gun incidents, robberies and sexual assaults. The panel found there were guns in select schools across the city “in non-trivial numbers.”

At Westview Centennial secondary school near the corner of Jane and Finch, the panel found that one of every three female students said they have been the victim of sexual harassment at their school over past two years. Almost 30 per cent of female students at the school said they had experienced unwanted sexual contact over that period of time.

Twenty-nine female students said they had been victims of major sexual assault at the school.

At C.W. Jefferys, almost 20 per cent of female students said they had been the victims of sexual assault, the report said.

One of the most shocking side effects of the panel's investigation over the past few months was the discovery of the alleged sexual assault of a female Muslim student at C.W. Jefferys. The final report sheds more light on the incident, which took place in October, 2006.

The female teacher and the students told a vice-principal about the alleged attack, but neither police or her parents were informed, the report says.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

What is going on here is a complete break down of responsibility from the teachers, administrators right on up. The number of unrported incidents (reprted to school authorities but not to police) shows that they are more concerned with their own employement and personal safety than they are with the children they are charged to protect.

And while taking safeguards to prevent young hoodlums from bring guns to school or gang raping young girls in the washroom are good and prudent, even more prudent would be remoing these beings from school altogether.

Schools with high suspension, expulsion or dropout rates should be staffed with full-time social workers and youth workers, the panel advised – TDSB should also hire 20 new full-time social workers dedicated to high-priority schools.

They should also consider experienced bouncers or police.

[Michael Hardner]

Safe Schools was one of the few Harris ideas that was good.

They need to build an unsafe school for unsafe students, with a ratio of 5 students to one 250 pound male teacher.

[Muddy]

well you two recognize the problem thank goodness. The left is still blaming Harris for crying out loud. The problem is almost insurmountable. How about the fist people to blame should be the young hoods who make everyones life miserable. They are the ones that are really in control because the consequences for their learned behaviour is diddly. They know they are untouchable. I like the idea of a school for the thugs. We used to call it Reform School for juvenile delinquents. Get ex CFL footblallers to manage the place. Our teachers have lost control of the schools and now they need help. I am willing to help with my experiences. Start in kindergarten demanding that children behave appropriately when a teacher enters the room. Build some respect starting there. Teach some patriotism. Loyalty. Act on bullying right away and suspend kids. If parents are working they will be put to a lot of trouble. It`s their brat ,not the teachers. Respect starts at home. I watched some of those kids going to school ,they would scare even me. They look ,dress and act like hoodlums. Well a few ideas anyway. Also a lot of this is a cultural problem but everyone is afraid to say it. If you don`t recognize and admit where the problem lies you can`t fix the problem.

[Dog]

Both schools mentioned are in the Jane / Finch corridor which is not Torontos only cesspool nieghborhood but it is its biggest cesspool over taking Cabbagetown many years ago . Jane / Finch for those that are unaware has one of the largest concentration of public housing aka welfare recipients .

Here are some Jane/ Finch facts .

The north side of J/F is controlled by the Crips gang and the southside is controlled by the Bloods

J/F has the largest concentration of criminals of any area in Canada

40% of all black Canadians live in Toronto 61% of those live in the J/F corridor (Rexdale)

81 % of all J/F residents describe them selves as black or of black mixed race

75.2 % of all house holds in J/F are single parent .

A single mother with 2 children in J./F receives $ 19000 a year in govenment payments

Many people consider J/F an African Canadian neighborhood but this is not true since over 70% are from the Carribbean , Jamaicans are the largest group comprising 40 % of its residents .

62% of all Jamaican/Canadian women and 70% of Jamaican/Canadian men are unemployed (2005)

I point these facts out because if you are going to solve the problem you must know what and who you are dealing with . I dont have the solution to the problems in the schools in Toronto but it is very clear where the problem is .

* I found this part of the article puzzling to say the lest .

"At C.W. Jefferys, almost 20 per cent of female students said they had been the victims of sexual assault, the report said.

One of the most shocking side effects of the panel's investigation over the past few months was the discovery of the alleged sexual assault of a female Muslim student at C.W. Jefferys. The final report sheds more light on the incident, which took place in October, 2006."

Why was it "shocking" that a female "Muslim" student was sexualy assaulted when in the previous sentence it was stated that 20% of females at the school had been sexualy assaulted ?

[Rue]

Both schools mentioned are in the Jane / Finch corridor which is not Torontos only cesspool nieghborhood but it is its biggest cesspool over taking Cabbagetown many years ago . Jane / Finch for those that are unaware has one of the largest concentration of public housing aka welfare recipients .

Here are some Jane/ Finch facts .

The north side of J/F is controlled by the Crips gang and the southside is controlled by the Bloods

J/F has the largest concentration of criminals of any area in Canada

40% of all black Canadians live in Toronto 61% of those live in the J/F corridor (Rexdale)

81 % of all J/F residents describe them selves as black or of black mixed race

75.2 % of all house holds in J/F are single parent .

A single mother with 2 children in J./F receives $ 19000 a year in govenment payments

Many people consider J/F an African Canadian neighborhood but this is not true since over 70% are from the Carribbean , Jamaicans are the largest group comprising 40 % of its residents .

62% of all Jamaican/Canadian women and 70% of Jamaican/Canadian men are unemployed (2005)

I point these facts out because if you are going to solve the problem you must know what and who you are dealing with . I dont have the solution to the problems in the schools in Toronto but it is very clear where the problem is .

* I found this part of the article puzzling to say the lest .

"At C.W. Jefferys, almost 20 per cent of female students said they had been the victims of sexual assault, the report said.

One of the most shocking side effects of the panel's investigation over the past few months was the discovery of the alleged sexual assault of a female Muslim student at C.W. Jefferys. The final report sheds more light on the incident, which took place in October, 2006."

Why was it "shocking" that a female "Muslim" student was sexualy assaulted when in the previous sentence it was stated that 20% of females at the school had been sexualy assaulted ?

Dog you may want to reference where you got the above info from because some people are going to challenge the above stats.

I appreciate the point you are making which is to speak frankly, candidly and honestly about such facts if we are going to deal with this and similar issues and not have it turn into a pc circus to avoid doing anything.

[M.Dancer]

I know a few teachers. My brother in law (that's my wife's brother for the family tree challenged ) is a principal out near Cambridge.

From what I have heard from teacher in Toronto Public, Missisauga Catholic and of course near Cambridge is there is a lot of pressure placed on teachers NOT TO DISCIPLINE students. Teachers who send too students to the office are questioned as to their capability of handling a class, their skills as teachers are examined....unions issues arrise...so no one, not the principal nor the vice principal nor the teacher wants to get involved. If the students who are routinely causing trouble are minority students, a socila workewr may get involved. Then the teacher's attitude towards race may be questioned. And in Toronto, that's a real Black Mark.

This is one of the reasons why crimes in schools often go unreported to police or the board.

Student learn quickly. The trouble makers learn they can terrorize with impunity. The victims learn that their antagonists are not punished.

The post has a headline (don't know where the headline originates) that this is society's fault. I think ha is just an excuse to take away reesponibilities from individuals who have put these policies in motion and from individual who slavishly follow them.

[M.Dancer]

81 % of all J/F residents describe them selves as black or of black mixed race

Citation please

[Oleg Bach]

Dog you may want to reference where you got the above info from because some people are going to challenge the above stats.

I appreciate the point you are making which is to speak frankly, candidly and honestly about such facts if we are going to deal with this and similar issues and not have it turn into a pc circus to avoid doing anything.

The culture of fear has been made worse recently. Now even if a good black kid walks down the side walk - old white guys like me cringe. Maybe he will pop old pops with a couple of caps in the ass. The media has not been helpful. Also to put it bluntly - when we removed the higher authority from the schools and from soceity at large - that authority and I will say this daringly was the GOD concept - now there is no authority - If you are going to radically secularize the city of Toronto and remove hope - and faith is hope...You had better replace that hope and faith with something else - which is materialism - seeing that we can not all be millionares..that leads to frustration in our young - their only hope is money...You bankers wanted this - so stop complaining - your dreams have come true!

[M.Dancer]

Here are some Jane/ Finch facts .

The north side of J/F is controlled by the Crips gang and the southside is controlled by the Bloods

J/F has the largest concentration of criminals of any area in Canada

40% of all black Canadians live in Toronto 61% of those live in the J/F corridor (Rexdale)

81 % of all J/F residents describe them selves as black or of black mixed race

75.2 % of all house holds in J/F are single parent .

A single mother with 2 children in J./F receives $ 19000 a year in govenment payments

Many people consider J/F an African Canadian neighborhood but this is not true since over 70% are from the Carribbean , Jamaicans are the largest group comprising 40 % of its residents .

62% of all Jamaican/Canadian women and 70% of Jamaican/Canadian men are unemployed (2005)

I don't think it helps if facts are put forth which may be misleading...

Jamaicans are the largest group comprising 40 % of its residents .

Actually that number is high. Jamaicans are 6% of the neighbourhood

75.2 % of all house holds in J/F are single parent .

The real number is still alarmingly high. 24.1%

81 % of all J/F residents describe them selves as black or of black mixed race

Again, high. 15.7% descibe them thelselves as black and given that over 28% describe themselves as chinese or another non black race, 81% is impossible. In fact there are more whites in Jane finch than blacks.

http://www.toronto.ca/wards2000/ward7.htm

40% of all black Canadians live in Toronto 61% of those live in the J/F corridor (Rexdale)

This is wrong in every possible way. The black population is Canada is 662,200 strong. The black pop. in Toronto is about 204,000. 60% of 204,000 is 124,440. The pop of the neighbourhood is only just above 51,000

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/11-0...4/07604_04p.htm

Edited January 11, 2008 by M.Dancer

[Oleg Bach]

I don't think it helps if facts are put forth which may be misleading...

Actually that number is high. Jamaicans are 6% of the neighbourhood

The real number is still alarmingly high. 24.1%

Again, high. 15.7% descibe them thelselves as black and given that over 28% describe themselves as chinese or another non black race, 81% is impossible. In fact there are more whites in Jane finch than blacks.

http://www.toronto.ca/wards2000/ward7.htm

This is wrong in every possible way. The black population is Canada is 662,200 strong. The black pop. in Toronto is about 204,000. 60% of 204,000 is 124,440. The pop of the neighbourhood is only just above 51,000

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/11-0...4/07604_04p.htm

My blonde blue eyed boy grew up out side of Aurora Ontario..He always went to a school fully of 99.9% white kids. Then we moved to east end of Toronto briefly to take care of an ailing relative - not my choice of locations..So the kid was 15 at the time and he attended a school where he was on the average day the only white kid in class. The Muslim kids disrespected his as an "infidel" the black kids were a bit better - the Persian kids were scary and the Shrilankin kids if you were polite to them took it as an insult and threatened to shoot my son - so he was slowly becoming the proverbial prized trophy or white rhino...He wanted out of that hell hole - so he dropped out - I would rather have him at home educating himself - then waiting for him to be gutted by some nut...no way in hell is my kid going to be used in an experiment by the social engineers - just to dangerous.

[Rue]

My blonde blue eyed boy grew up out side of Aurora Ontario..He always went to a school fully of 99.9% white kids. Then we moved to east end of Toronto briefly to take care of an ailing relative - not my choice of locations..So the kid was 15 at the time and he attended a school where he was on the average day the only white kid in class. The Muslim kids disrespected his as an "infidel" the black kids were a bit better - the Persian kids were scary and the Shrilankin kids if you were polite to them took it as an insult and threatened to shoot my son - so he was slowly becoming the proverbial prized trophy or white rhino...He wanted out of that hell hole - so he dropped out - I would rather have him at home educating himself - then waiting for him to be gutted by some nut...no way in hell is my kid going to be used in an experiment by the social engineers - just to dangerous.

Oleg you raise something I do not expect you to be able to state except in the way you did. Its your child who has been exposed to violence. It goes to your most primative instinct of wanting to protect your child from harm. I would expect you to be nothing but angry, disillusioned and just plain fed up.

You know damn well I could fill you full of neutral calming language but fat good that does when each day your child is in a war zone.

For me, I see parents of every colour, religion, ethnicity, etc., saying the exact same thing as you. Racism is racism regardless of who does it to who. Violence is violence.

All I can say is Oleg is what the f..ck has happened where children of ANY colour/race/ethnicity are able to behave in this manner and when they aren't doing the above, carrying drugs or engaging in gang wars or treating young women with violence and disrespect?

They have sent me in to mediate such disputes and I am telling you I could not deal with the layers of players other then the actual offenders and victims each with their own agenda preventing common sense from prevailing.

See to me a school should have no guns, drugs, people coming to school dressed in gang colours, students disrespecting their teachers, etc.

The question is who enforces the rules? See there are no shortage of rules but no one will enforce them because to enforce them means a whole set of political problems.

I mean Oleg one thing you know very well is that this begins and ends with parents but if there are NO parents or the parent is stoned or drugged or a criminal or compromised, etc., you know there is no one to sit that child down and say-this is bull.

I have been in meetings where parents are shown clear evidence their child beat someone and they say its racism to point that out and racism caused the child to beat the other one.

Both sides are rationalizing failure and violence using the "its society's fault" shtick.

Parents now expect their schools to be parents. They want to dump the child as early as possible and pick him or her up as late as possible and then when they get older simply give them a key and tell them they are on their own.

How do we teach parents their children are their responsibility until they leave home? How do you stop children from having children and then perpetuating this b.s.

Of course we need role models and after school programs and structured sports, etc. The government has cut back funding in all those areas (yes that was Mike Harris) and parents too have to accept the blame.

I myself am truly moved by parents like you whose children are victimized and no one gives a shit and its just part of the system no one will talk about. Many parents of all categories agree with you.

As one parent to another I have nothing I can say other then I regret everything that has happened to your kid. Whether he uses this bull that has happened to him to make him stronger and better for it, or whether it screws him up the rest of his life, you will still have a say in. Believe in yourself in that respect to show him the right way nno matter how bs it seems.

[margrace]

I haven't been to school in 55 years and the bullying is just the same now as then. I was from a Roman Catholic background in a protestant area, I hated school. There was one black girl and the same girls who made my life hell would literally hold their noses when they walked by her.

No the world hasn't changed that much.

Edited January 11, 2008 by margrace

[M.Dancer]

I haven't been to school in 55 years and the bullying is just the same now as then. I was from a Roman Catholic background in a protestant area, I hated school.

Really? How many murders and shootings were there while you were in school?

[iForgot]

I haven't been to school in 55 years and the bullying is just the same now as then. I was from a Roman Catholic background in a protestant area, I hated school. There was one black girl and the same girls who made my life hell would literally hold their noses when they walked by her.

No the world hasn't changed that much.

There is no fucking way bullying is as bad now. Bullying wasn't that much of a problem when I was in High School aside from goths and talking to my little brother, even goths rarely get bullied now. Gang violence is a different story. Jamaicans are a big problem IMO.

Edited January 11, 2008 by iForgot

[White Doors]

I know a few teachers. My brother in law (that's my wife's brother for the family tree challenged ) is a principal out near Cambridge.

thank you sir

[M.Dancer]

thank you sir

de nada

[Dog]

Sources for my previous post

United Way Toronto (poverty by postal code)

Jane-Finch.com

Jamaicans.com

Jane and Finch Wikipedia

Canadian immigration reform blog

[M.Dancer]

Sources for my previous post

United Way Toronto (poverty by postal code)

Jane-Finch.com

Jamaicans.com

Jane and Finch Wikipedia

Canadian immigration reform blog

Feel free to actually provide the citations.

[Dog]

Feel free to read more then one sentence quotes that would never disuade you from your pre conceived opinion.

[Oleg Bach]

Feel free to actually provide the citations.

The United way is evil in the guise of charity - we should get rid of it - they give their support huge bureacratic agencies that are self serving and will lie when brought to task. The benevolent and kind Community Chest of old run by nice Jewish and Christian woman was real charity. We have no charity in Canada - not since 1957 when big buisness destroyed it in order to gain control over the poor workers - taking away their options to seek employment else where - The system is coersive and brutal - in Toronto they attempt to starve the poor into submission - while monsterous corporations like the United Way...create tax havens for the rich. By the way - from what I understand the families of the 911 disaster are still sueing the American United Way for money they refuse to disperse that was collect on behalf of the surviors.

[M.Dancer]

Feel free to read more then one sentence quotes that would never disuade you from your pre conceived opinion.

In other words you are unable to actually quote and cite what and where the bogus stats came from. Thought so, Thanks

[Michael Hardner]

Dog,

Feel free to read more then one sentence quotes that would never disuade you from your pre conceived opinion.

The fuel that makes me, and I suspect Dancer and many of the others on this site run is INFORMATION.

If we simply debated opinions, they would simply degenerate into baseless "you're wrong/I'm right" type discussions every time.

Your numbers seem pretty gross. Why not provide the links to them, if they are true ?

[Muddy]

Interesting reading here. I have come to a conclusion from years of observing. Low cost public houseing must be a breeding ground for gangs and violence.

Yes there always has been violence in schools. When I was a Lad we got into punch ups and there was a certain amount of bullying. But kids were not murdered for percieved differences. But knives ,guns! For a bunch of kids who wore a brace of Roy Rogers six guns,graduated to a Red Ryder pump action BB gun and then onto a 22 single shot rifle, joined the army and lived in camps where everyone was armed to the teeth, I should be a homocidal maniac with such a history as a laddy. But I am not,and niether were my peers. Why? Must be in culture and breeding grounds where public houseing creates gettoes,gangs and real violence including murders.

Conclusion! Bulldoze the public houseing and get people to disperse into the general population. Kids are a product of their inviroment. All kids want to belong and be cool. Unfortunately in some areas belonging to the Gangs is a neccessity to social life. Free the people. Bulldoze the low cost public houseing. Let people find homes in a greater big world where people have a different lifestyle. Where people actually look down their noses at drug dealing. Where civility is the norm ,not the exception. Where people working to improve themselves in legitimate jobs is not the exception,but the norm.

What we are seeing folks in these gettoes is learned behaviour. We are also seeing an educational system and social system ,and long before Mike Harris, capitulate to the thugs. This culture is not new, it has been festering for over thirty years. In some cases this culture has beed imported. Maybe public houseing is to blame too?

[Michael Hardner]

Conclusion! Bulldoze the public houseing and get people to disperse into the general population. Kids are a product of their inviroment. All kids want to belong and be cool. Unfortunately in some areas belonging to the Gangs is a neccessity to social life. Free the people. Bulldoze the low cost public houseing. Let people find homes in a greater big world where people have a different lifestyle. Where people actually look down their noses at drug dealing. Where civility is the norm ,not the exception. Where people working to improve themselves in legitimate jobs is not the exception,but the norm.

This is true. And mixed income co-ops do a lot to encourage the type of mixing you're describing.

[Oleg Bach]

This is true. And mixed income co-ops do a lot to encourage the type of mixing you're describing.

Poor Toronto schools are dumps. The staff are overly liberal flakes that have no other place to find employment. The blacks and others are stupifed by materialism and bad values are empty of morality and principle. There was a time when old black Baptist mothers and fathers kept the kids in check with old fashioned Christian values - now with aggressive secularization of the public school system and the ghettoizing of peoples through so-called subsudized housing - areas that are pockets of sub-divided desolation - where there is no real culture other than "programs" at dismal "rec centres" - where tossing a basket ball around and listening to bad hip hop and rap music is considered culture..

I would say we are pretty much screwed...and why you ask? I would surmise because our buisness elite - the old 65 year old guys sitting in bank towers -who quietly effect social policy - are racists - and would destroy the black race utterly if they could...these proud aging dis-connected private school boys that send their grand children to England to go to school - Know our public schools do not empower youth - they dis-empower them - and that is what they want! In the mean time we are caught in this cross fire of hate. Maybe we should stop looking at blacks like they were dumb animals and trash - trash comes in the form of white and black.

The other factor is the "crazy factor" as I put it. We all assume that different levels of social and metal illness are reserved only for the poor - that the poor are nuts - we would never dream that men who move billions may also be crazy - The point is when a man sits on the board of five prestiges hospitals - the resident shrink is never going to diagnose this important fellow as luney..but they are...and THAT is the problem - we worship money so intensely we never question the ones who control it - or whether they turely have the capacity to rule a society and manage it well - seems that their big private estate of Ontario is poorly managed - and they know it - but are to proud to admit it's out of control - and the schools are sewers clossed over by a lot of liberal warm and fuzzy group hugging dweebs who are in constant bikering with the "don't touch" extremist that 70s feminist eccentric idiocy generated. The worst society gets the easier it is to govern - MILTON - "I WOULD RATHER RULE IN HELL THAN SERVE IN HEAVEN" - sums up the problem - time to ask the old guard to step aside and retire.