jbg Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) The judiciary is reversing a weird and bizzzre bizarre ruling by Judge Sheila Martin, where she held that pot use in the worklplace was a protected human right (link). Excerpts below: Top court quashes drug test ruling No human rights protection in workplace firing, judges say By GLENN KAUTH, SUN MEDIA The Edmonton Sun ************ While Chiasson himself admitted he was only a casual user of the drug, Martin accepted that in firing everyone who tests positive for drugs, engineering and construction company Kellog, Brown and Root (KBR) had essentially treated him as though he were an addict and therefore disabled. As a result, the company had a duty to be more flexible in its testing policies by, for example, allowing for a washout period that would let recreational drug users get the drug out of their blood, Martin ruled. The theory was that occasional smokers don't necessarily pose a safety risk at work. The Court of Appeal judges, however, have ruled otherwise. "Extending human rights protections to situations resulting in placing the lives of others at risk flies in the face of logic," they wrote, noting that despite Chiasson's insistence that his drug use was his business, the effects of marijuana can linger for days. Morton, now sustainable resources minister, called the previous decision a bad, judge-made law. "It puts the rights of some guy to smoke pot above the safety of his fellow workers," he told Sun Media at the time of Martin's ruling. Edited per Bubber Miley's correction Edited January 3, 2008 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
BubberMiley Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 The judiciary is reversing a weird and bizzzre ruling by Judge Sheila Martin, where she held that Were you bzzzed when you spelled bizarre? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
jbg Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Posted January 3, 2008 Were you bzzzed when you spelled bizarre?Fixed, and I take the Fifth on that!!! Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
M.Dancer Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 Fixed, and I take the Fifth on that!!! A fifth? Me too, I just finished a Glenfiddich and no I'm on the Crown Royal... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Drea Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 How silly! While the THC from marijuana does stay in the system, the "high" does not. The effects of alcohol, however, lasts for days. For example, I went out a few weekends ago and had five vodka-sevens (with a lime please). I took me until Tuesday until I was finally feeling back to 100%. That night I did not smoke any weed because mixing alcohol and weed causes one to feel nauseous and dizzy... anyhhooo... The next Saturday night we watched movies and smoked two doobies between us. On Sunday morning I got up and went on a housecleaning spree, then went Christmas shopping, visited friends and got all the laundry done to boot. I felt competely and utterly 100%, not hung over even a bit. Please please someone tell me the logic in testing this fellow after the "high" had worn off? ...oh I just read that it happened in Alberta... never mind. What's funny? My hubby and I pretty much smoke weed openly here in BC. Couple of summers ago we were in a hotel in Calgary and went to smoke a doob before bed and were all worried someone in the hotel might smell it and report it. We never worried about this for even 5 seconds in BC We rolled up a towel, put it by the front door, and sat by the open window to smoke it. Damned if I were gonna let the Alberta rednecks stop me from smoking! Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
capricorn Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 Me too, I just finished a Glenfiddich and no I'm on the Crown Royal... Pure malt scotch on rocks, hmmm the best. No fifth but a whole 26er now that's good livin'. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
M.Dancer Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 Pure malt scotch on rocks, hmmm the best. No fifth but a whole 26er now that's good livin'. I was too lazy to get ice and I'm playing Travian at te same time.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
jbg Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Posted January 3, 2008 Please please someone tell me the logic in testing this fellow after the "high" had worn off? ...oh I just read that it happened in Alberta... never mind.Is there a test to determine if someone is in fact "high" and endangering safety, other than a drug presence test? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
BubberMiley Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 Is there a test to determine if someone is in fact "high" and endangering safety, other than a drug presence test? I can tell people are endangering safety without a drug test. They're the ones endangering safety. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Wilber Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 I was too lazy to get ice and I'm playing Travian at te same time.... Ice, with a single malt? Surely not. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
jbg Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Posted January 3, 2008 I can tell people are endangering safety without a drug test. They're the ones endangering safety.How would you apply that on a large scale? Can you inspect every oil rig worker in Alberta every day? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
margrace Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 Yep the government makes a lot on liquour taxes and the same should be for the weed but the problem is anyone could grow it. Of course anyone can make alchohol too but it is a lot more work and time. It sure keeps our taxes up paying for a police force chasing growers. Kinda makes one wonder why we need to keep them busy, keep them out of other things do you think? Quote
Shakeyhands Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 Ice, with a single malt? Surely not. Absolutely acceptable. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
M.Dancer Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 Ice, with a single malt? Surely not. You are right, ice with rye, with malt, perhaps a teaspoon of water to release the dragon. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
jbg Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Posted January 3, 2008 Yep the government makes a lot on liquour taxes and the same should be for the weed but the problem is anyone could grow it. Of course anyone can make alchohol too but it is a lot more work and time.It sure keeps our taxes up paying for a police force chasing growers. Kinda makes one wonder why we need to keep them busy, keep them out of other things do you think? You may well be right on whether or not pot should be either decriminalized or legalized. Alcohol is legal and yet showing up at work is or should be cause for termination. You haven't addressed why being high or for that matter drunk at work is a fundamental human right, similar to the right not to be addressed with an ethnic or racial slur. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Drea Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 You may well be right on whether or not pot should be either decriminalized or legalized. Alcohol is legal and yet showing up at work is or should be cause for termination. You haven't addressed why being high or for that matter drunk at work is a fundamental human right, similar to the right not to be addressed with an ethnic or racial slur. The man in question (the one who was tested) was neither high nor drunk at work nor at the time of the testing. He did however, have traces of THC in his system -- which does not mean one is "still high". If there is a test to see if a person has injested THC over the weekend then there ought to be a test to see if a person drank alcohol over the weekend as well. A hung over drunk is a menace. How can a person be "100%" when their body is trying to recover from a bout of drinking? As I stated earlier, pot does not cause a "hang over", the "shakes", puking, headache, etc. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
M.Dancer Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 The man in question (the one who was tested) was neither high nor drunk at work nor at the time of the testing. He did however, have traces of THC in his system -- which does not mean one is "still high". I don't know about high but I can vouch for an effect a day or two later. If I have smoked one or two it takes at least a couple of days before I feel that my brain is working at 100% efficiency. I feel a little slower on the up take... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Drea Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 I don't know about high but I can vouch for an effect a day or two later. If I have smoked one or two it takes at least a couple of days before I feel that my brain is working at 100% efficiency. I feel a little slower on the up take... If you feel that way from pot, imagine how it must be on Monday morning for the guy who went on a drinking bender Saturday night! Pot does effect people differently... my bro doesn't like it 'cause it just makes him tired... I don't care for alcohol (and never never mix it with weed for reasons stated above) as it takes me far too long to feel "normal" afterwards. Over this Christmas season it is amazing how many people tried to get me to drink. "Aw come on, have a drink, it's Christmas!". When I said "no thanks" they act all offended. I only drink once a year at hubby's Christmas party. It's fun, but I pay for it for days. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
M.Dancer Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 If you feel that way from pot, imagine how it must be on Monday morning for the guy who went on a drinking bender Saturday night! Oh I can imagine....I don't feel particularly intelligent after a long evening's social either. I used to smoke pot a fair bit. Perhaps a tad more than a 1/4 a week. I more or less cut back to hardly ever about 9 years ago. And now I find that the potency has gone way up and the sensual side of taking a puff has been eliminated by the potency. I can't sit and puff on a spliff, I get far too wasted and I don't care to go out and light a bong or what ever contraption the kids use for their one toke wonders. Which is why I still prefer hash...... ...and yes, the day after smoking a hash joint my brain feels like it is firing on one cylinder short. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
BubberMiley Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 I can't sit and puff on a spliff, I get far too wasted... I haven't smoked a whole joint at one time in years. Limit it to granules at a time and it will be like the old days. One puff is all you need. People like to pretend the potency makes it more dangerous (as if it's a drug you can OD on), but it just makes it easier on your lungs and pocketbook. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
M.Dancer Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 I haven't smoked a whole joint at one time in years. Limit it to granules at a time and it will be like the old days. One puff is all you need. People like to pretend the potency makes it more dangerous (as if it's a drug you can OD on), but it just makes it easier on your lungs and pocketbook. hence the sensual and social aspect of smoking is gone. I really don't enjoy treating it like a pharmaceutical where I most monitor how many milligrams I ingest. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
BubberMiley Posted January 3, 2008 Report Posted January 3, 2008 I guess you could always mix it with oregano like the dealer in my junior high used to do. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
FTA Lawyer Posted January 8, 2008 Report Posted January 8, 2008 You may well be right on whether or not pot should be either decriminalized or legalized. Alcohol is legal and yet showing up at work is or should be cause for termination. You haven't addressed why being high or for that matter drunk at work is a fundamental human right, similar to the right not to be addressed with an ethnic or racial slur. I have great respect for Justice Sheilah Martin which caused me to look into this case further...I didn't immediately trust that the media had fairly portrayed her ruling. Notice of Appointment for Justice Martin Upon reviewing the Court of Appeal's decision, I think fairness requires a bit of a clarification of what Justice Martin actually ruled. Court of Appeal Decision The facts of the case are interesting. The guy failed a pre-employment drug test because he had smoked marijuana 5 or 6 days before being tested. My read is that there was no evidence that he had ever been tested while working (let alone failed such a test). The company said passing the pre-employment drug test was a pre-condition to employment, but they tested the guy on June 28 and apparently put him to work right away. He was called off of the jobsite on July 17 when the test result came back as a fail. Justice Martin ruled that the company's policy had the effect of treating all persons as disabled by drug addiction, because it automatically fired anyone who failed the pre-employment test...not accounting for the possibility that the worker was not an addict and therefore not a risk to use at work (and therefore no reason to fire them). If the company perceived an applicant to be "disabled" (in the way in which it's policy was administered) and refused employment on the basis of that perception, they were in violation of the Human Rights legislation. Justice Martin then found that there was insufficient evidence to demonstrate that the pre-employment drug testing was effecting a lower accident rate on the job-site, and basically concluded that it was thus unjustified to automatically fire someone for failing a pre-employment drug test without some effort to accommodate them (i.e. give them a chance to re-test after clearing THC from system). At the end of the day, the Court of Appeal did say she was wrong, and did say that it was not logical to apply the human rights legislation in the way in which she did, but one can hardly correctly say that Justice Martin made a finding that smoking pot was a fundamental human right or that some guy's right to smoke pot was to be placed above the safety of his fellow workers. It was a bit more complex than that. FTA Quote
jefferiah Posted January 8, 2008 Report Posted January 8, 2008 (edited) . Damned if I were gonna let the Alberta rednecks stop me from smoking! Well the thing is Drea, they did not stop him from smoking pot. What they did was say "If you are going to use drugs you dont work for us." Damned if those Alberta rednecks are gonna let you tell them how to run their business. If you got a job working at a convenience store in Alberta and the employer said "The store opens at 8am and closes at 10 pm. Your shift will be from 8 til 4." You accept the position and then later decide you hate the hours. Would you then say "Damned if I'm gonna let those rednecks tell me when to show up at work." It's a condition of the employment. If you work in a job where they have testing it is common knowledge that there is a reason for it, and that reason is you are not supposed to be using drugs if you want to work there. Someone owns that business and that is their terms. You know full well going into the job that if you get caught during a periodic drug test you are gone. Edited January 8, 2008 by jefferiah Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
Community Advocate Posted January 8, 2008 Report Posted January 8, 2008 (edited) With drug testing for thc, how can one tell if the thc is five days old, or if the person just smoked some an hour ago? Or, if they were at a party on the weekend (Ross Rebegliati - olympic snowboarder) and in a small room where everyone else was smoking it? Edited January 8, 2008 by Community Advocate Quote
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