Ottawa school threatened after Christmas song cuts

[Leafless]

An elementary school in Ottawa was flooded with hateful and threatening e-mails and phone calls after media reports that it had removed the word "Christmas" from a song to be performed at its Christmas concert.

But school board chair Lynn Scott had this to say:

School board chair Lynn Scott said the school was accused of being anti-Christian, but 'I'm not seeing very many Christian values in the reaction we've had.'

What would Lynn Scott care about Christian values when she herself could have maybe dressed in her civvies and left her hijab at home.

This is considering the strange fact that she acknowledges 'Christmas' and does not refer to it as the 'holiday season', although she came close to it.

"What's really unfortunate is the way that sensationalizing this, as has happened, has really put a damper on what should have been a delightful Christmas seasonal celebration for the children at Elmdale," she said.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007...mas-071221.html

[Guest American Woman]

She's right in her obvervation that the responses weren't very Christian-like. What a terrible example to set for the kids. It was ridiculous that they were removing the word "Christmas," but it would have likely gone unnoticed for the most part if the parents hadn't made such a big deal out of it.

[Wilber]

"What's really unfortunate is the way that sensationalizing this, as has happened, has really put a damper on what should have been a delightful Christmas seasonal celebration for the children at Elmdale," she said.

She has no one to blame but herself. We can have a "Christmas seasonal celebration", her words, but mustn't use the word Christmas. What rubbish and coming from a supposed "educator" at that.

[Guest American Woman]

You can't blame anyone for the bad behavior of those who sent hateful and threatening emails and phone calls except the people who did it. No matter how ridiculous it was to take out the word "Christmas," there's no excuse for the very un-Christian-like reaction and it was a terrible example to set for the kids.

[Wild Bill]

You can't blame anyone for the bad behavior of those who sent hateful and threatening emails and phone calls except the people who did it. No matter how ridiculous it was to take out the word "Christmas," there's no excuse for the very un-Christian-like reaction and it was a terrible example to set for the kids.

Well, thank heavens the school had not posted any anti-Christmas cartoons!

[kengs333]

She's right in her obvervation that the responses weren't very Christian-like. What a terrible example to set for the kids. It was ridiculous that they were removing the word "Christmas," but it would have likely gone unnoticed for the most part if the parents hadn't made such a big deal out of it.

Do you know what the responses were, because I see no examples given in the article. All we have to go on is the accusations of Miss Scott and the claims made by the author of the article. It could well be that a few cranks out there did write something bad, and it wouldn't surprise me if some anti-Christians took the opportunity to write some inflammitory things in the guise of being Christians in order to stir things up. But whatever the case, does it just not make any sense to her that this sort of thing is actually insulting to some Christians, that it is going to cause some animosity? And then for her to sit there and accuse people of not behaving in a Christian manner... Give me a break. What is she? Probably not a Christian.

[Guest American Woman]

Do you know what the responses were, because I see no examples given in the article. All we have to go on is the accusations of Miss Scott and the claims made by the author of the article. It could well be that a few cranks out there did write something bad, and it wouldn't surprise me if some anti-Christians took the opportunity to write some inflammitory things in the guise of being Christians in order to stir things up. But whatever the case, does it just not make any sense to her that this sort of thing is actually insulting to some Christians, that it is going to cause some animosity? And then for her to sit there and accuse people of not behaving in a Christian manner... Give me a break. What is she? Probably not a Christian.

It's not an op-ed piece-- it's a news item writtten by a reporter, and it said the school was "flooded" with hateful and threatening phone calls and emails. I'm sure the CBC isn't in the habit of reporting news that's not true. So it wasn't "a few cranks," and of course your speculation that they were "anti-Christians just to stir things up" is nothing more than speculation. At any rate, no matter who it was, the responses were "anti-Christian." Her accusations of their reactions not being Christian were right-on, whether she herself is a Christian or not (which is totally irrelevant). And there's no excuse for "hateful and threatening" behavior. You think if someone makes a Christian angry then it's ok for the Christians to react in a non-Christian way?

[Wilber]

You can't blame anyone for the bad behavior of those who sent hateful and threatening emails and phone calls except the people who did it. No matter how ridiculous it was to take out the word "Christmas," there's no excuse for the very un-Christian-like reaction and it was a terrible example to set for the kids.

I'm not making excuses for the behavior of others but in her position, she should know better.

Three years ago my grandkids had a "seasonal" school concert where the word or anything else you would associate with Christmas wasn't mentioned and no one could figure out what the thing was about except the people who dreamed it up. It was a boor. This year while the religious aspect wasn't stressed, it was more what you would expect at Christmas and the dreaded word must have been used at least a hundred times. Everyone was talking about how much they enjoyed it. Maybe it was because the new principal is a Sikh who doesn't get hung up on this stuff like too many white folks.

[Moxie]

I'm glad she felt the wrath of the parents, a teacher's job is suppose to be teaching. In the past twenty years teachers have been teaching their "Indoctorine" to our children, socialist pablum. It got vomited back at her, perhaps people got rude or offensive because they are tired of the PC horshite we are fed by Teachers and Government Wonkers.

It's Christmas, not the "Holiday Season" or a festive time of year. On a personal level it can be any of those, but in Canada we are a Christian Nation. It's Christmas, perhaps we can regain the traditions that were taken from us in the name of Liberalism/Socialism oh and multiculturalism.

[Drea]

I'm glad she felt the wrath of the parents, a teacher's job is suppose to be teaching. In the past twenty years teachers have been teaching their "Indoctorine" to our children, socialist pablum. It got vomited back at her, perhaps people got rude or offensive because they are tired of the PC horshite we are fed by Teachers and Government Wonkers.

as opposed to the horseshit fed to us by the religious?

Sing "Silent Night" in your home or at the church pageant -- sing "Jingle Bells" or "Frosty the Snowman" in school. What would be the problem with that? For Pete Sake, if you want your kid to have a Christian education, put them in a Christian school.

It's Christmas, not the "Holiday Season" or a festive time of year. On a personal level it can be any of those, but in Canada we are a Christian Nation. It's Christmas, perhaps we can regain the traditions that were taken from us in the name of Liberalism/Socialism oh and multiculturalism.

We are not a Christian nation. While Christianity may be the most popular religion, we are in no way a theocracy. And thankfully so Moxie.

Our nation, allows for freedom of and from religion. I am not forced to wear a hijab (or face Mecca) during Ramadan so why is a muslim, buddist, jewish or atheist child in school forced to worship Jesus (if only in a song)?

Maybe you would be happier in a theocracy, but I wouldn't. Thankfully in Canada the secular voters are more numerous than the freaky religious.

I don't pander to any of the religious "Pap" so I am re-highjacking the Christmas celebration as an excuse to party, eat, see friends and give gifts.

The notion of Jesus plays no part in my Christmas celebrations at all, but I still call it Christmas. Sooner or later (hopefullly sooner) the word "Christmas" will no longer be connected to "christ", it will simply mean "winter celebration".

What a wonderful time of year!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays and Happy Ho Ho and Yuletide Greetings to all in MLW diverse group!

Edited December 24, 2007 by Drea

[capricorn]

Parents have just about had enough of this PC stuff from some teachers which has gone on too long. This was bound to boil over and now the parents are the bad guys for their reaction.

One school in Ottawa avoids using the "C" word by calling it "red and green day". How preposterous can this PC BS get. It only takes a few teachers to spoil what should be a joyous occasion for children. The children exposed to these PC games become confused then the parents have to deal with the fallout.

I think all elementary school recitals and concerts should be pre-approved by a committee of parents. I mean not just Christmas events but ALL such events. There's no other way to prevent these situations which inevitably turn into a community controversy.

[kengs333]

It's not an op-ed piece-- it's a news item writtten by a reporter, and it said the school was "flooded" with hateful and threatening phone calls and emails.

Define "flooded." Sorry, but I've read enough "journalism" in Canada to know that reporters are known to make serious factual errors and exaggerate the truth. That's just the way it is.

I'm sure the CBC isn't in the habit of reporting news that's not true.

This is not about whether phone calls or emails were received, rather how they have been characterized.

So it wasn't "a few cranks," and of course your speculation that they were "anti-Christians just to stir things up" is nothing more than speculation.

But still plausable.

At any rate, no matter who it was, the responses were "anti-Christian."

Do you mean "un-Christian"?

Her accusations of their reactions not being Christian were right-on,

Speaking of "speculation"... do you really know what the content of those emails and phone calls contained? How can you characterize them as "not being Christian" if you don't?

whether she herself is a Christian or not (which is totally irrelevant).

Yes, in fact, it does have relevance.

And there's no excuse for "hateful and threatening" behavior. You think if someone makes a Christian angry then it's ok for the Christians to react in a non-Christian way?

Well, seeing that you really don't know the content of these emails and phone calls, nor do you know who really made these comments, making such a statement is somewhat absurd.

Moreover, one really has to wonder just why Miss Scott feels justified in labelling people as being un-Christian when she is a front for what is clearly an anti-Christian agenda. It's a mockery, and an insult.

[kengs333]

We are not a Christian nation. While Christianity may be the most popular religion, we are in no way a theocracy. And thankfully so Moxie.

Well, at the risk of forcing you to understand the reality of Canadian history and culture, Canada is in fact a Christian country. It was founded by Christians--or people who claimed to be Christians--and was settled by people who were almost exclusively Christian. Christianity was the dominant (not "popular") religion for much of Canada's history, and rightfully so; now that it is going into decline, so goes Canada. This is not a coincidence. Christianity is what has given Canadians the freedoms and human rights that we cherish, and now we are substituting this with atheistic humanism and religious/ethnic balkinization. No such country can exist--a perfect example is the Austro-Hungarian Empire--in such a fashion for long.

I am not forced to wear a hijab (or face Mecca) during Ramadan so why is a muslim,

I wouldn't be so sure. People who immigrate from Muslim countries don't shed their old beliefs as easily as you'd like to think, and they haven't been subjected to the self-defeating. Self-hating secular ideology that most of us Canadians have over the last thirty years that causes us to loathe our own cultural and religious heritage, and allow others to trample all over it. Once they increase enough in numbers and gain political power the laws can be easily changed. Moreover, it wouldn't surprise me if image-conscious little girls begin to accept and adopt the hijab as an acceptable fashion statement. All one has to do is look at the history of feminine headdress to see how it has often been influenced by "exotic" cultures.

[Leafless]

Define "flooded." Sorry, but I've read enough "journalism" in Canada to know that reporters are known to make serious factual errors and exaggerate the truth. That's just the way it is.

Media in Canada all belong to unions and like teachers will not rattle politically correct notions for fear of loss of employment.

Canadian media ranks little above or is on the same level as pure vomit.

[Leafless]

It's Christmas, not the "Holiday Season" or a festive time of year.

Those who are against the word Christmas are no better off using the word holiday, "a contraction of holy and day, holidays originally represented special religious days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday

IMO, Muslim and Islam is much more offensive to ones societal standards and beliefs and is a constant reminder of horrific acts of violence against innocent citizens around the world.

And to think in this country we allow this group to manipulate majority religious beliefs for their perceived benefit.

How twisted this country has become.

[Guest American Woman]

Define "flooded."

Well, seeing that you really don't know the content of these emails and phone calls, nor do you know who really made these comments, making such a statement is somewhat absurd.

Moreover, one really has to wonder just why Miss Scott feels justified in labelling people as being un-Christian when she is a front for what is clearly an anti-Christian agenda. It's a mockery, and an insult.

The article said "dozens." With that, I'm done discussing the article. My interest is in discussing what happened.

The school decided to take the word "Christmas" out of a song. As I said, I think that's going too far in being PC. But that's not having an "anti-Christian agenda." It's clearly having a secular agenda. There's a huge difference between the two.

So Miss Scott is justified in calling un-Christian behavior exactly that. Hateful, threatening, and foul language are all un-Christian. And while the school was exposing the children to secularism, the responses were exposing the children to un-Christian behavior.

It's amazing to me that people are defending and/or rationalizing this behavior. People who, I'm guessing, think Muslims should be ok with anti-Islamic cartoons are justifying hatred and threats over a word.

Christian children can celebrate a Christian Christmas in church. They can participate in Christian programs through Sunday School. There is absolutely no reason for them to be "confused" as to why a public school, which has children from all faiths and beliefs, would make Christmas a secular celebration. All they need to understand is a rational explanation. Instead they got "hateful and threatening" responses, some with "foul language." If you think that's teaching kids the "Christian way," I just have to shake my head in disbelief; especially since that very un-Christian response is what would be confusing to children who are being taught to live according to the beliefs of Christianity.

Edited December 24, 2007 by American Woman

[buffycat]

While I am not affiliated in any way whatsoever to any organised 'religion' all these efforts to water down Christmas and it's significance bothers me.

It creates division. Why not allow the celebration of ALL at this time of year. School pageants can have Christmas songs, and Eid skits and Hannuka sonnets! Do it all - include the Grinch and Frosty too?! The reindeer and magic mushroons, include the Pagan origin of the whole time - for all of the current 'monotheistic' power grabbers.

Make it fun for the children, by sharing the whole thing - or else DO nothing.

This 'one or the other' and censoring songs is for the birds. When will folk grow up? :angry:

[Drea]

Public school is just that -- public.

And the entire "public" does not worship Jesus and therefore should not be forced to sing songs or act in plays that worship him.

I can imagine how up in arms people would be if there little children were forced to participate in a *insert other religion here* ceremony.

Can you imagine the outcry if Christian children in public schools were forced to bow down to Allah? Even once, for a celebratory "song"?

Christians do not have the common sense abiltiy to put themselves in another's shoes... and all the bullshit about Christianity being a "tolerant' and "accepting" religion -- the Christians on this board have proven that they in no way shape or form, support Jesus' ancient teachings of love and tolerance.

If you are not a hatefilled warmongering intolerant bigot, congratulations for rising above all this garbage.

Merry Christmas!

Edited December 24, 2007 by Drea

[buffycat]

Public school is just that -- public.

So, hence either teach it all - in a historically true sense or nothing. Public encompasses all - I don't have a problem with that - in a way it can help to discard the false divisions set up between everyone.

And the entire "public" does not worship Jesus and therefore should not be forced to sing songs or act in plays that worship him.

No, they don't but this time of year holds significance far beyond Christ - the Winter Solstice practices predate all current belief systems - so why not treat it as a really interesting history lesson?

edited to add:

Merry Christmas Drea!

Edited December 24, 2007 by buffycat

[kengs333]

The article said "dozens." With that, I'm done discussing the article. My interest is in discussing what happened.

Yeah, but, you can only discuss what happened according to what the article claims.

The school decided to take the word "Christmas" out of a song. As I said, I think that's going too far in being PC. But that's not having an "anti-Christian agenda." It's clearly having a secular agenda. There's a huge difference between the two.

In my opinion, an anti-Christian and a secular agenda are essentially the same thing.

So Miss Scott is justified in calling un-Christian behavior exactly that. Hateful, threatening, and foul language are all un-Christian. And while the school was exposing the children to secularism, the responses were exposing the children to un-Christian behavior.

That's the way she's characterizing it. We have no way of knowing what the content of the emails/phonecalls really was, not how "Christian" the people making the comments were.

It's amazing to me that people are defending and/or rationalizing this behavior. People who, I'm guessing, think Muslims should be ok with anti-Islamic cartoons are justifying hatred and threats over a word.

Nobody's rationalizing "this behaviour" because none of us really knows what the comments were like. And you know full well that the response to this incident is not the same as that to those cartoons. Nobody's burning anything down, nobody's calling for a holy war.

[charter.rights]

Maybe it is time to do away with Christmas as an official holiday? I mean it is nothing but an excuse to feed the spending compulsion we have been conditioned into by big corporate media. Certainly, there isn't anything wrong with having holidays around this time but it might make more sense if we did it as a secular holiday. For many - perhaps the majority of people - Christmas isn't a true religious holiday, and Canada isn't Christian. So it makes no sense to continue to play a mythical game complete with mythical characters born in paganism and in pre-Biblical times. Nor does it make sense to continue the frenzied consumption of cheap products stuffed in disposable papers and boxes to feign an affection that is really filled with resentment, disappointment, disillusions, unreasonable expectation et al. Rather it might be a more enjoyable holiday even for Christians, if it was nothing more than a time off at mid-winter and people were left to observe their own personal beliefs.

I wonder how Christian parents would feel if they found out their children were forced to learn and memorize a Hanuka song, or Muslim chant at some of their important religious days?

It is time to leave Christmas behind and start being a country of tolerance.

Edited December 27, 2007 by charter.rights

[M.Dancer]

I wonder how Christian parents would feel if they found out their children were forced to learn and memorize a Hanuka song, or Muslim chant at some of their important religious days?

My son sings driedle dreidle dreidle till it drives you crazy. Then he changes the words for added effect.

I have zero problem with my kids learning about other cultures, we have been to rosh hashanna dinners, El Eid and even greek orthodox easter (yum)....as long as it ain't absurd made up holidays like festivus or kwanza...

[Guest American Woman]

And just what's wrong with Festivus? If it's good enough for Mr. Costanza, who are you to knock it?

Of course there are a lot of people who would be just fine with their kids singing songs to represent all religions, but I believe there would also be a significant number of parents who would strongly object-- and I'm guessing some of that objection would be quite forceful. I can't imagine all parents being ok with little Johnny and Janey singing praises to Allah. So they are the ones that make the suggestion of singing songs to represent all religions nonviable.

So the only answer, really, is to make it a secular celebration in the public schools.

[Wilber]

The name of the holiday is Christmas, not Festivus (sounds Latin to me, must be Catholic or Pagan). Lets rename Easter and Thanksgiving while we are at it. Any suggestions? For the life of me I can't understand why merely using the word Christmas is somehow forcing the religion down someone else's throat. Is the mention of any holiday that bears a name associated with any religion now going to be taboo.

It is time to leave Christmas behind and start being a country of tolerance.

Really, what else would you suggest we not tolerate in the name of tolerance.

[kengs333]

It is time to leave Christmas behind and start being a country of tolerance.

Yeah, let's go back to the good old days when the Indians celebrated their "holidays" with mass human sacrifices. Nothing says tolerance like slicing open a captive's chest and yanking out their heart while they're still alive...