Muslim father chokes daughter to near death

[cybercoma]

Argus,

All you need to do is substantiate your facts and I'll change my tune:

"murder often committed by groups of family members and supported by the extended community "

All I ever ask is that people back up what they say. Some do, and others do not.

This 'PC guy' tag hasn't been substantiated yet, though it has been tried. I agree with Auguste1991 that the background of the alleged killer can't be ignored, but there's a wide gulf between that position, and one where we can say that immigration needs to be reconsidered.

I'm sure Argus can substantiate his/her own claims, but I just want to point out a few things from wikipedia (not a great source, but quick and mostly accurate enough)...

Jordan: Part of article 340 of the Penal Code states that "he who discovers his wife or one of his female relatives committing adultery and kills, wounds, or injures one of them, is exempted from any penalty." This has twice been put forward for cancellation by the government, but was retained by the Lower House of the Parliament.

Syria: Article 548 states that "He who catches his wife or one of his ascendants [sic], descendants or sister committing adultery (flagrante delicto) or illegitimate sexual acts with another and he killed or injured one or both of them benefits from an exemption of penalty."

Morocco: Article 418 of the Penal Code states "Murder, injury and beating are excusable if they are committed by a husband on his wife as well as the accomplice at the moment in which he surprises them in the act of adultery.

Haiti: Article 269 of the Penal Code states that "in the case of adultery as provided for in Article 284, the murder by a husband of his wife and/or her partner, immediately upon discovering them in flagrante delicto in the conjugal abode, is to be pardoned."

Pakistan: Honor killings are known as Karo Kari (Sindhi: ڪارو ڪاري) (Urdu: کاروکاری ). The practice is supposed to be prosecuted under ordinary murder, but in practice police and prosecutors often ignore it.[25] Often a man must simply claim the killing was for his honor and he will go free. Nilofar Bakhtiar, advisor to Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, stated that in 2003, as many as 1,261 women were murdered in honor killings.[26] On December 8, 2004, under international and domestic pressure, Pakistan enacted a law that made honor killings punishable by a prison term of seven years, or by the death penalty in the most extreme cases. Women's rights organizations were, however, wary of this law as it stops short of outlawing the practice of allowing killers to buy their freedom by paying compensation to the victim's relatives. Women's rights groups claimed that in most cases it is the victim's immediate relatives who are the killers, so inherently the new law is just eyewash. It did not alter the provisions whereby the accused could negotiate pardon with the victim's family under the so-called Islamic provisions. In March 2005 the Pakistani government allied with Islamists to reject a bill which sought to strengthen the law against the practice of "honor killing".[27] However, the bill was brought up again, and in November 2006, it passed.[28]. It is doubtful whether or not the law would actually help women

That's several examples where it's ok to kill your wife. Funny thing is we have a provocation defense in Canada which makes it easier for someone to get a reduced sentence if they catch their spouse cheating. Apparently, it's much easier for a man to use this defense than a woman.

So...yeah. Take what you will from that.

[mikedavid00]

Here's one that happened in Ottawa last year.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2006...ng-elmvale.html

His sister's fiancee died of his wounds. Sadiqi was charged with 2 counts of first degree murder.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2006...25/shooter.html

Yes and there we have it.

Wow the media must have burried this VERY deep for me not to have even heard about it.

So basically Afganistan trash was in Ottawa and a brother killed the couple because he 'didn't approve' of the marriage.

That's an honor killing.

So now we have 4 incidents in Canada now of honor killings. 1 in BC, another in Alberta (heard about it on radio this morning where the sikh father killed his daughter and boyfriend), 1 in Toronto, and 1 in Ottawa.

And here the media is talking about an accidental death using tasers.

[marcinmoka]

While I firmly agree with this notion:

There's a difference between a Western father who kills his daughter and a Muslim father who kills his daughter

But one thing you did in your post was fail to differentiate between the two 'western examples. Murderous western fathers (mostly) are very much unlike Robert Pickton. The one crucial difference with Pickton is that the behavior of the woman was relevant, i.e their all being prostitutes, with drug addictions. These were carefully targeted.

[mikedavid00]

md00

I agree. There's hundreds of such incidents every year. Will you be starting a thread on each of them?

StatsCan

These are not child deaths.

We are talking about a 16 year old and older.

[mikedavid00]

It could all come down to the perfect storm. Who knows? Was his house being repo'd? Was his business failing, money troubles?, his wife (no mention I saw) having an affair?

That's just sickening.

I can't believe you. You are excusing this because of money troubles? That's disgusting.

He is from a DIRT, TRASH familiy with EIGHT children. They were from the dirt and should *NOT* have been granted enterance into a first world country. They were like fish out of water.

The daughter was a hero becuase she dared to integrate and hang around 'outsiders' and integrate with Canada. She gave her life for that.

The reason why no one did anything is becuase of all the BACKWARDS cultures over here so it's expected and normal that girls are not allowed out, have to be home at 5pm, and the parents can hit them.

I challenge you to go to a suberb in the US.. say.. Kansas public school and a grade 11 student goes to see a teacher and councelor and says that she must be home by 5pm, she's having problems at home, and that she's stayed at a shelter becuase of her problems at home and she has to hide the fact that she doesn't want to wear a cloth over her head and that she's having problems at home. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED HERE IN MISSISSAUGA. 10 MIN FROM WHERE I SIT RIGHT NOW.

The police would be called, councilors would get involved and it the 'community would help raise the child' as the lefty's love to say. That's what would happen. They would consider it odd and abusive to have a grade 11 girl at home at 5pm, trapped in her home, and afraid of her father and older brothers. The police would be called immediately becuase it would be so odd and foreign to them to hear this sort of thing.

But here in Canada! Oh no.. this is common. So common that my own friends are treated like this. I have a best friend from Ottawa. Got arranged marriage to a fat loser xenephobic racist here in Mississauga, and now lives in HIS parents BASEMENT APT. with ANOTHER FAMILY that has a kid. Her life in Ottawa now gone. I'm no longer allowed to see her. I'm not a Jatt Sikh so I guess I'm not allowed to hang out with her. She now exclusively hangs out with Sikhs. The low life parents take the money from the kids to fund their house. She's stuck always baby sitting her neice in law in the fcking basement and I can only chat with her on MSN now. She's a human slave. That's what she is. Never lived on her own, never been single and free to date who she wanted. Her Dad ALWAYS taking her pacheck.

But no, we are too busy defending these wild human animals that enter our foreign habitat where they are not able to function. Then ONTOP of this, people like you are defending them and blaming 'stress' and 'money problems.

They were sand people. People that should have not been in Canada. They should be back in their natural habitat where the daughter would have stayed in line and been raised with the barbaric values that he desired for his daughter.

[Canadian Blue]

The daughter was a hero becuase she dared to integrate and hang around 'outsiders' and integrate with Canada. She gave her life for that.

You think that she's a hero, yet...

They should be back in their natural habitat where the daughter would have stayed in line and been raised with the barbaric values that he desired for his daughter.

Why don't you just come out and say you don't really give a shit about the daughter since she would not have been allowed into Canada because she was a "sand person."

But here in Canada! Oh no.. this is common. So common that my own friends are treated like this. I have a best friend from Ottawa. Got arranged marriage to a fat loser xenephobic racist here in Mississauga, and now lives in HIS parents BASEMENT APT. with ANOTHER FAMILY that has a kid. Her life in Ottawa now gone. I'm no longer allowed to see her. I'm not a Jatt Sikh so I guess I'm not allowed to hang out with her. She now exclusively hangs out with Sikhs. The low life parents take the money from the kids to fund their house. She's stuck always baby sitting her neice in law in the fcking basement and I can only chat with her on MSN now. She's a human slave. That's what she is. Never lived on her own, never been single and free to date who she wanted. Her Dad ALWAYS taking her pacheck.

You really love making shit up don't you. Either way I think you're doing more harm to your cause than anyone else on here. I'm still amazed that you wish your best friend never came to Canada, and hope that she will be deported. But then again logic is not your friend.

[mikedavid00]

One has only to watch a 1950s sitcom to have a glimpse into our own recent past. Imagine going back several centuries

Look at the story of Cinderella. It's no different than what's happening in the stoneage today. The women are sold off, there is a cast system and family name, the boy gets all the glorification, and women compete to marry into money.

That's how arranaged marriages are done today. If you are a boy in the US, you might recieve THOUSANDS of wedding proposals.

I'm not making this up by the way. For fun we used to read some of the matremonial websites for laughs. If people here odn't know what I'm talking about, I highly, highly suggest people take a quick look at this VERY popular site:

http://www.sikhmatrimonials.com/

You'll see people from Indian post stuff like:

"My nephew graduate, three year diploma holder in computer engineering and presently working as surveyor and loss assessor, caste tonk kashatrya, but cast no bar age 23 years, having one brother who is doing B.Tech in computer engineering, grandparents in Canada, looking for girl in Canada and usa.Ht.5'5" [email protected] Posted Jan 23, 02"

And maybe some here will understand just how deep their culture goes. Stuff that happens behind closed doors. IMO it's human slavory and immigration scams and should not be tollertated in Canada.

[M.Dancer]

Not when the daughter is fairly hefty and the father is 57 years old with 'heart problems'.

You are starting to grasp at straws now to defend the father.

Tell that to the coroner, Kreskin

Peel Police said last night that an autopsy showed the teenager died from "neck compression."

don't confuse that with suffocation

[Black Dog]

Domestic violence and misogyny should matter all the time, but it's particularly disturbing when someone has this fantastical belief in an invisible man that is going to make that someone suffer for an eternity after death if he doesn't take control of his family and make his daughter cover her head with a scarf. It's particularly disgusting when this person perhaps thinks they're doing the right thing, or even feel justified in their actions, based on what they believe (through faith rather than reason) an invisible man wants.

I think that the religious and cultural context is important, sure, but I don't think the crime is any more disturbing because of the religious element: that's just the hot button issue. I'm also perfectly willing to accept that not all cultures and religions are equal in terms of their treatment of and attitudes towards women. No newsflash there.

Not to mention the fact that this just so happens to be the domestic violence/misogyny story of the week in the news. I'm sure most people would be just as appalled regardless of the race of the people involved.

That's where you and I part company. I would put money on the fact that if this was Gord McDonald doing the killing, the people here who are outraged by the crime would have nothing to say. It's not lke their agenda is secret or anything:

They were sand people. People that should have not been in Canada. They should be back in their natural habitat where the daughter would have stayed in line and been raised with the barbaric values that he desired for his daughter.

Can you feel the compassion?

[guyser]

That's just sickening.

I can't believe you. You are excusing this because of money troubles? That's disgusting.

I am not in the least surprised you replied this way. No less than three times did I state that there is no excuse for what he did. I said I was curious , but I understand English is not your first language.

He is from a DIRT, TRASH familiy with EIGHT children. They were from the dirt and should *NOT* have been granted enterance into a first world country. They were like fish out of water.

Living in a house larger than yours. Still jealous they came and did better than you?

The daughter was a hero becuase she dared to integrate and hang around 'outsiders' and integrate with Canada. She gave her life for that.

Did she? She gave her life huh? Bet if you could ask her she would ask what sort of nonsense are you talking about. She actually went home knowing she would die, to prove a point?

DIRT ,TRASH , SAND people you call them. Jealous still I see. Work hard like they did and maybe you can improve your lot in life.

I challenge you to go to a suberb in the US.. say.. Kansas public school and a grade 11 student goes to see a teacher and councelor and says that she must be home by 5pm, she's having problems at home, and that she's stayed at a shelter becuase of her problems at home and she has to hide the fact that she doesn't want to wear a cloth over her head and that she's having problems at home. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED HERE IN MISSISSAUGA. 10 MIN FROM WHERE I SIT RIGHT NOW.

The police would be called, councilors would get involved and it the 'community would help raise the child' as the lefty's love to say. That's what would happen. They would consider it odd and abusive to have a grade 11 girl at home at 5pm, trapped in her home, and afraid of her father and older brothers. The police would be called immediately becuase it would be so odd and foreign to them to hear this sort of thing.

My american teacher friends, all two of them, could tell you horror stories that you would not believe , so frankly, I will listen to them instead of some jealous hater who BS's the entire board with his "immigrant friends" stories.

Get off the pipe will ya?

But here in Canada! Oh no.. this is common. So common that my own friends are treated like this. I have a best friend from Ottawa. Got arranged marriage to a fat loser xenephobic racist here in Mississauga, and now lives in HIS parents BASEMENT APT. with ANOTHER FAMILY that has a kid. Her life in Ottawa now gone. I'm no longer allowed to see her. I'm not a Jatt Sikh so I guess I'm not allowed to hang out with her.

Want to bet her parents and her husband met you and decided not to lower themselves with white trash canadians?

Why add another fat loser xenophobic loser to the group?

[M.Dancer]

I wonder when MD moved from Ottawa to Mississauga? And did he get money from ottawa to do it?

[Guest American Woman]

If this case is an indictment of how Muslim society treats it's women, what does the fact that Robert Pickton was able to kill as many as 49 women say about ours?

"Able" to? That's a bit different from being "allowed" to, wouldn't you say? That someone is "able" to do something has no bearing on their society. He was "able" to kill that many only because he wasn't caught, and I'm guessing it wasn't for lack of trying.

[mikedavid00]

I wonder when MD moved from Ottawa to Mississauga? And did he get money from ottawa to do it?

No I moved here 3.5 years ago after getting laid off in Ottawa and meeting a girl online. And I did that with something called a TD Bank Visa.

[JerrySeinfeld]

The crux of the issue is this:

What was this guy doing in Canada? These are not our values.

If you think want to treat your women like this, there are lots of countries where this is considered acceptable behavior. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan for example.

Why would someone like this choose to bring these kinds of values into a society that clearly doesn't accpet them.

Or do we?

Make the choice.

[mikedavid00]

Living in a house larger than yours. Still jealous they came and did better than you?

Firstly, my house is bigger than his. Second, i'm not jelous of him at all, but rather mad at him that the tax payers have to fund his mortgage and it's that sort of wacky living arrangement that drives up housing prices to the point where young families can no longer afford homes like that. The contributed nothing to Canada. Absolutely Nothing.

Want to bet her parents and her husband met you and decided not to lower themselves with white trash canadians?

Wow.

Behold the famous Canadian self hatred.

[mikedavid00]

The crux of the issue is this:

What was this guy doing in Canada? These are not our values.

If you think want to treat your women like this, there are lots of countries where this is considered acceptable behavior. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan for example.

Why would someone like this choose to bring these kinds of values into a society that clearly doesn't accpet them.

Or do we?

Make the choice.

YES THANK YOU!

THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT.

Lets stop this from happening in the future. We simply CANNOT change 3rd world mentalities!

[Guest American Woman]

YES THANK YOU!

THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT.

Lets stop this from happening in the future. We simply CANNOT change 3rd world mentalities!

Perhaps we could help. I suggested counselling to help people from such different cultures make the transition to western cultures, but you said 'no way.' So it sounds as if you don't want to help change anything, you just want to keep certain people out.

I still say if there were counselling services available, somewhere this girl could have gone for help when she was threatened, afraid, and according to friends coming to school with bruises, maybe this tragedy could have been prevented.

[guyser]

The crux of the issue is this:

What was this guy doing in Canada? These are not our values.

If you think want to treat your women like this, there are lots of countries where this is considered acceptable behavior. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan for example.

Why would someone like this choose to bring these kinds of values into a society that clearly doesn't accpet them.

Or do we?

Make the choice.

mikeD just cloned himself.

[guyser]

Firstly, my house is bigger than his.

Ok mike. Sure.

Second, i'm not jelous of him at all, but rather mad at him that the tax payers have to fund his mortgage and it's that sort of wacky living arrangement that drives up housing prices to the point where young families can no longer afford homes like that. The contributed nothing to Canada. Absolutely Nothing.

Taxpayors fund your mortgage too then . Now what? By the way, it is NONE of your business how they live inside that house. None of our business how you live in your house too.

Wow.

Behold the famous Canadian self hatred.

Ok now that was funny. Because they dont want to associate with you....I hate myself.

Best larf of the day.

[mikedavid00]

Now what? By the way, it is NONE of your business how they live inside that house.

It is my business. It's my neigbourhood, my community, and my country. I have do have some business of how they live in their house and so does our municipal gov't. Basement apartments have been outlawed for many years when it started to become a problem. They did this becuase it was ruining our communities and neighbourhoods.

But I care most that they are buying houses that they cannot afford and making it hard for legitimate Canadians to buy a home.

If you can't afford something, don't buy it. These houses were not meant for joined families and to be split up into apartments with 4 cars in the driveway. This happens over and over and begins to ruin our neighbourhood.

[mikedavid00]

Perhaps we could help. I suggested counselling to help people from such different cultures make the transition to western cultures, but you said 'no way.' So it sounds as if you don't want to help change anything, you just want to keep certain people out.

I still say if there were counselling services available, somewhere this girl could have gone for help when she was threatened, afraid, and according to friends coming to school with bruises, maybe this tragedy could have been prevented.

Do you honsetly think that councelling is going to change someone who has been indoctrinated with a 3rd world mentallity? It's impossible.

I sat there while an immigrant from south asia simply cut my fiance off every time she would talk becuae she's a girl. If you asked him about what he thinks about womens rights and this issue, i'm sure he would have a lot to say about how equality is great.

But there is a such a deep rooted indoctrine planted in these people that you simply cannot change some things through councelling and I certainly dont want to pay for it. Heck, these people can barely speak English to boot. If you lived here you would understand. You do not get these types of immigrants where you live.

Also, this girl spoke to councilors about her issues and that didn't solve anything. She even ran away to a shelter and nothing was done. The school and teachers were aware of these problems but every ethnic girl has the same store about how strict their parents are.

[Argus]

Here's one that happened in Ottawa last year.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2006...ng-elmvale.html

His sister's fiancee died of his wounds. Sadiqi was charged with 2 counts of first degree murder.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2006...25/shooter.html

Uhm, yeah, it was an honour killing by a member of a particular ethnic immigrant group. But how does that disprove my point?

[Canadian Blue]

No I moved here 3.5 years ago after getting laid off in Ottawa and meeting a girl online.

Great to hear that with your wide social circle you met a girl online.

I sat there while an immigrant from south asia simply cut my fiance off every time she would talk becuae she's a girl. If you asked him about what he thinks about womens rights and this issue, i'm sure he would have a lot to say about how equality is great.

Why are you friends with all of these immigrants you despise so much? For the love of god just answer that basic question.

But there is a such a deep rooted indoctrine planted in these people that you simply cannot change some things through councelling and I certainly dont want to pay for it. Heck, these people can barely speak English to boot. If you lived here you would understand. You do not get these types of immigrants where you live.

So the black immigrants we have here in Medicine Hat are different from the ones in Toronto. So do you dislike immigrants from Toronto, and only Toronto? By the way stop playing the "I live here" card because most of us have come into contact with immigrants as well.

[Oleg Bach]

Great to hear that with your wide social circle you met a girl online.

Why are you friends with all of these immigrants you despise so much? For the love of god just answer that basic question.

So the black immigrants we have here in Medicine Hat are different from the ones in Toronto. So do you dislike immigrants from Toronto, and only Toronto? By the way stop playing the "I live here" card because most of us have come into contact with immigrants as well.

Hey I guess that if the Muslim neck ringer knew that he would come to Canada and his daughter would turn into a Britney Spears whor* - he would have aborted the little wench..not saying that ringing her neck is or was a nice thing - just that - if I knew my daughter would grow to be a young woman that would not belong to one man - but would grow to be a monkey in heavey makeup - that would have 200 partners in her life - I would not have bothered bringing her into the world - there are rules of good behaviour - "She was trying to show her beauty" bull crap - she was becoming a common whor* - I met a beautiful woman from Somolia who wore the head scraf - she was sexy and classy - and her father was a normal man......the crazed dad killed his daughter rather than have her mounted by every drunken monkey boy in the hood.

[guyser]

No I moved here 3.5 years ago after getting laid off in Ottawa and meeting a girl online. And I did that with something called a TD Bank Visa.

Did your online profile look as good as this guys?

http://www.sikhmatrimonials.com/

You'll see people from Indian post stuff like:

"My nephew graduate, three year diploma holder in computer engineering and presently working as surveyor and loss assessor, caste tonk kashatrya, but cast no bar age 23 years, having one brother who is doing B.Tech in computer engineering, grandparents in Canada, looking for girl in Canada and usa.Ht.5'5" [email protected] Posted Jan 23, 02"

I would bet whoever wrote yours wasnt being truthful. Did yours mention the unemployment, the abject hate for any immigrants .