Euro star

[margrace]

The eurostar goes from Parris to London in a little under two and one half hours, it averages around 300k's per hour. Canada dearly needs more trains like this expecially after what happened to the airline industry yesterday, Don't you think? It takes many cars off the road and does not use fossil fuels. Of course this is what GM has been fighting against for years ins't it.

[Wilber]

The eurostar goes from Parris to London in a little under two and one half hours, it averages around 300k's per hour. Canada dearly needs more trains like this expecially after what happened to the airline industry yesterday, Don't you think? It takes many cars off the road and does not use fossil fuels. Of course this is what GM has been fighting against for years ins't it.

Certainly more energy efficient systems are a good thing but a thing isn't efficient if you can't fill it up. There aren't many places in Canada that have the population density which would make something like the Eurostar viable. 300 kph won't cut it in a country with Canada's distances when the average airliner travels over 2 1/2 times that fast. One of air travels greatest advantages is its flexibility, it can change routes and put the proper equipment on those routes at the drop of a hat because there is no infrastructure such as rail lines or roads which have to be built before it is possible. What happened yesterday was a computer reservation system going down. No reason that couldn't happen to a rail system as easily as to an airline.

[scribblet]

I've no idea if GM has been fighting it, but it is a good idea, but not all that feasible in Canada. GM makes locomotives in London, so I would think they would get into building newer types of rail transport too.

[Guest American Woman]

Canada dearly needs more trains like this expecially after what happened to the airline industry yesterday, Don't you think?

I've traveled on the Eurostar, as well as Via Rail, and Amtrak. Can't say that I've found rail travel any cheaper than air travel. I guess I'm not sure of what you mean by "after what happened to the airline industry yesterday." What am I missing?

Edited November 17, 2007 by American Woman

[geoffrey]

VIA is much more expensive as is, but that's a whole 'nother issue.

The Alberta government has bought land in downtown Calgary and Edmonton to build a high speed rail link between the cities, trip time of an hour. That running a few times a day would be great for the really integrated business communities we have. I think it's a good idea, and I'd use it at the right price. Hell, I might even look at going to an Oilers game.

With travel distances much shorter in Southern Ontario, I don't see why it wouldn't be a viable option. And alot of the infrastructure is existing, you already have a strong rail network that would just need to be upgraded. I can definitely see commercial potential from Windsor to Montreal, just stopping at major centres.

[scribblet]

I've traveled on the Eurostar, as well as Via Rail, and Amtrak. Can't say that I've found rail travel any cheaper than air travel. I guess I'm not sure of what you mean by "after what happened to the airline industry yesterday." What am I missing?

Air Canada had a computer glitch for a few hours, their booking system was down resulting in a back log and huge lineup. It only affected AC, but the same thing could happen to a train system as they run on computers too.

[margrace]

At 60 Million for a six mile stretch of higway around Trout Creek, could this not be feasible. How much is the new Highway between Emsdale and South River costing. We can't afford the gas or the pollution. One of the greats about the Eurostar is that it has no pollution evidently. One lady, I heard one comment that Ontario tax payers would have heart attacks if they had any idea what that new stretch of highway is costing.

[margrace]

The cost of fuel alone was amazing, I wish I had written it down but it was on the David Suzuki show this week. Right now the only way to get from North Bay to Toronto is by rail, the only bus system is on strike. It takes us 3 hours to get to the Toronto Airport but we are 30 minutes from Huntville where the present train stops.

Edited November 17, 2007 by margrace

[margrace]

I've traveled on the Eurostar, as well as Via Rail, and Amtrak. Can't say that I've found rail travel any cheaper than air travel. I guess I'm not sure of what you mean by "after what happened to the airline industry yesterday." What am I missing?

I don't know whether it would be any less expesnive out of your pocket but it certaily would help your air quality, but maybe money is more important than you breathing, I don' know.

[margrace]

For some discussion on the train versus planes go to this site. http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/o,,1892274,00,html

Edited November 17, 2007 by margrace

[margrace]

Oh well that didn't work but google it.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't know whether it would be any less expesnive out of your pocket but it certaily would help your air quality, but maybe money is more important than you breathing, I don' know.

You said eurostar-type trains would be a good idea "in light of what happened to the airline industry yesterday," and I admitted I didn't know what that was in reference to. Thanks to Scriblett, I know that Air Canada, not "the airline industry" had computer problems. But as Scriblett pointed out, railways could just as easily have computer problems.

Since you were talking about trains replacing planes, I'd have to say planes take as many cars off the road as trains do and since you were talking about speed, planes are fast. So I wasn't really sure where you were coming from-- figured maybe it was in reference to the cost of flying.

But rest assured, money isn't more important to me than breathing is, so your snide remark was totally uncalled for. I'd like to know how trains run without using fosil fuels though. I assume that's how trains vs trains would improve my air quality. Furthermore, since I live where air quality is not an issue, therefore breathing isn't something I need worry about, that wasn't foremost on my mind, so that aspect of it didn't really occur to me.

[Wilber]

For some discussion on the train versus planes go to this site. http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/o,,1892274,00,html

In places like Western Europe, Japan, and other places with high population densities, trains make a lot of sense. The population base is there to support them and the distances are such that trains can be just as efficient time wise in many cases when you take into account time spent in airport terminals. In Canada, not so much except for the Toronto Montreal corridor. The cost of building a rail line through the mountains from Calgary to Vancouver that could accommodate 300 KPH trains boggles the mind.

[margrace]

It is 340K from Paris to London, it is 330k from North bay to Toronto. You can buy a one way ticket on the new Eurostar for $58, to fly from Norht Bay to Toronto will cost you around $600, to take the airport bus it will cost you $86. You would have to be crazy to want to drive into the Toronto terminal on your own.

[geoffrey]

We can't afford the gas or the pollution. One of the greats about the Eurostar is that it has no pollution evidently.

Well, it has to have pollution. Energy needs to be created from something, and the way it works in every country in the world is that it comes from fossil fuels or nuclear primarily... both have pollution. And there is alot of pollution involved in constructed the railways and stuff too. So to call it pollution free? No. But there is little doubt that shipping a few hundred peopel on a train is less polluting than having them all drive to wherever it goes.

The cost of fuel alone was amazing, I wish I had written it down but it was on the David Suzuki show this week. Right now the only way to get from North Bay to Toronto is by rail, the only bus system is on strike. It takes us 3 hours to get to the Toronto Airport but we are 30 minutes from Huntville where the present train stops.

I'm going to be in North Bay tomorrow. I didn't know of the bus strike, but I'm renting a car anyways. That's interesting to know. North Bay isn't exactly a major centre though, and there would be no point in building a high speed train to North Bay. The province or whatever private business constructed the line would never see it be profitable.

It is 340K from Paris to London, it is 330k from North bay to Toronto. You can buy a one way ticket on the new Eurostar for $58, to fly from Norht Bay to Toronto will cost you around $600, to take the airport bus it will cost you $86. You would have to be crazy to want to drive into the Toronto terminal on your own.

North Bay: Population 53,000

Paris: Population 2,200,000

London: Population 7,500,000

The GTA already has effective rail transport with GO and the various transit commissions. I love Toronto transit. Within Toronto, there is little need. I can see a protfitable line to Montreal though, and probably to Windsor, especially if you could get the Americans to connect their own train at the border.

[margrace]

Well, it has to have pollution. Energy needs to be created from something, and the way it works in every country in the world is that it comes from fossil fuels or nuclear primarily... both have pollution. And there is alot of pollution involved in constructed the railways and stuff too. So to call it pollution free? No. But there is little doubt that shipping a few hundred peopel on a train is less polluting than having them all drive to wherever it goes.

I'm going to be in North Bay tomorrow. I didn't know of the bus strike, but I'm renting a car anyways. That's interesting to know. North Bay isn't exactly a major centre though, and there would be no point in building a high speed train to North Bay. The province or whatever private business constructed the line would never see it be profitable.

North Bay: Population 53,000

Paris: Population 2,200,000

London: Population 7,500,000

The GTA already has effective rail transport with GO and the various transit commissions. I love Toronto transit. Within Toronto, there is little need. I can see a protfitable line to Montreal though, and probably to Windsor, especially if you could get the Americans to connect their own train at the border.

Geoffrey drive south for an hour and tell me what that higway construction is costing. I don't buy your argument, the train service improved would have made a lot more sense. No matter whether it is highway or railline it doesn't change the population so why not spend the money in a wiser way.

[Wilber]

No one is going to build a 330 KM rail line to a town with a population of 53,000 when a road already exists. Considering the amount of traffic there would be between North Bay and Toronto, the amount of money required to do so could probably be used to reduce a much larger amount of pollution in other areas. We are having debates over whether a 80 km transit line is affordable in the Frazer Valley to serve a population of well over 10 times that many.

[geoffrey]

Geoffrey drive south for an hour and tell me what that higway construction is costing.

I'll be coming from Toronto so I'll certainly take a look, I'll be driving right through it.

Taking the train never even crosed my mind, I'm unconvinced you would want to build a trainline at many times the cost for such a small population. That would be like Calgary buliding a line to Lethbridge, it just doesn't make sense.

[margrace]

I'll be coming from Toronto so I'll certainly take a look, I'll be driving right through it.

Taking the train never even crosed my mind, I'm unconvinced you would want to build a trainline at many times the cost for such a small population. That would be like Calgary buliding a line to Lethbridge, it just doesn't make sense.

Be prepared to have some stops above Huntsville. Now just take a guestamate and tell Wilber how much the four laning of that highway cost when you get back to Calgary. Besides we need traffic off the roads and not an autobahn for a few, but that is the main highway west. Remeber when you bypass Trout Creek that the six mile bypass cost 60 Million dollars. At Burks falls don't miss the huge cuts in the rock to accomadate a road that goes no where.

[Wilber]

Be prepared to have some stops above Huntsville. Now just take a guestamate and tell Wilber how much the four laning of that highway cost when you get back to Calgary. Besides we need traffic off the roads and not an autobahn for a few, but that is the main highway west. Remeber when you bypass Trout Creek that the six mile bypass cost 60 Million dollars. At Burks falls don't miss the huge cuts in the rock to accomadate a road that goes no where.

You don't need a train for a few either. You want trains where there is a large ridership. Consider that a car getting 30 MPG with gas costing $5 per gallon is going to use $34 worth of fuel for the trip. How many of those few are going to use this train unless you subsidize the crap out of it? By all means let's have more rail but put it where it makes sense.

[Fortunata]

You don't need a train for a few either. You want trains where there is a large ridership. Consider that a car getting 30 MPG with gas costing $5 per gallon is going to use $34 worth of fuel for the trip. How many of those few are going to use this train unless you subsidize the crap out of it? By all means let's have more rail but put it where it makes sense.

The only problem with this is, build the train and there may then be many because of it. We always do things and build things for the status quo instead of looking ahead to see what is projected for the future, with or without the proposed whatever it may be.

[Wilber]

The only problem with this is, build the train and there may then be many because of it. We always do things and build things for the status quo instead of looking ahead to see what is projected for the future, with or without the proposed whatever it may be.

We don't have unlimited resources to spend on transportation systems. There are plenty of places where there is a pressing need for them already. Building a billion dollar system for a questionable market on spec is just plain irresponsible.

Whether it is trains, planes, trucks, cars or ships, every system has its place. There is no one size fits all solution so lets go with what suits each situation best.

If you really want to reduce vehicle caused pollution and CO2 emissions on a large scale, you could start by building a 80KM stretch of light rail up the Fraser Valley. It would be hundreds of times more effective at reducing pollution than a railway from Toronto to North Bay. People in the valley would love to jump on a train instead of having to endure rush hour on HWY 1 twice a day.

When I go into Vancouver, unless I need my car I only drive as far as the nearest Skytrain station and take the train. I hate driving in the place.

[Fortunata]

If you really want to reduce vehicle caused pollution and CO2 emissions on a large scale, you could start by building a 80KM stretch of light rail up the Fraser Valley. It would be hundreds of times more effective at reducing pollution than a railway from Toronto to North Bay. People in the valley would love to jump on a train instead of having to endure rush hour on HWY 1 twice a day.

I agree with that too. I'm no stranger to that area.

It should be done in a lot of places. It costs to build highways, widen them, maintain them. We either spend with vision now or later when it may be harder to come by.

[White Doors]

It is 340K from Paris to London, it is 330k from North bay to Toronto. You can buy a one way ticket on the new Eurostar for $58, to fly from Norht Bay to Toronto will cost you around $600, to take the airport bus it will cost you $86. You would have to be crazy to want to drive into the Toronto terminal on your own.

haha. You will never have a high speed rail link to NORTH BAY!! I could see a Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa link(s) but not Northbay.

[margrace]

You don't need a train for a few either. You want trains where there is a large ridership. Consider that a car getting 30 MPG with gas costing $5 per gallon is going to use $34 worth of fuel for the trip. How many of those few are going to use this train unless you subsidize the crap out of it? By all means let's have more rail but put it where it makes sense.

Wilbur I would settle for a good passenger train service that will take seniors to Toronto for appointments and bring them back the same day if possible. We have the silliest train system you ever used. Right now we have no bus service either.