Is Afghanistan Simply Old Fashioned Adventurism?

[AngusThermopyle]

war has always been for fun and profit - never for ideology

I disagree, can you say Third Reich?

[Oleg Bach]

I disagree, can you say Third Reich?

The ones in control of the Third Reich were men that generated ideology and inflicted their ideas on the mass, programing them. It was about power - about fun - and the personal profits to be gained and not just finacial ones. The Third Reich's achievements could have been generated by creating a cult that perhaps were enthrawed by a fixation on oak trees and the worshipping of black birds. If you look at those who like this war idea and those that push it though their influence as mega buisness money men.

..and you trace most of their interests - you some times see the disturbing little phrase "war supplies" . There is always profit in war...much like the deal that Israel has cut with the states - There is a stipulation as far as aid is concerned, that the bulk of money must be spent on arms. So what you have is congress alocating aid - the money travels to the former holy land not so holy anymore - then the money in part zooms back to the states into the pockets of arms manufacturers and deal makers...sounds like a huge money launding scheme to me and a ripping off of the tax payer via the duped right Christian fundies.

If there was no adventure in war for some and absolutely no profit it would not be waged..getting back to the Third Reich - who funded these crazies and why - who bought Hitler his first real nice desk? Back in Germany during that era - there was a competition between the communist party and the national socialist party...apparently one got better funding..and those that put in the original cash suredly turned a profit and had a lot of fun doing it - at the expense of millions - just like this hysterical war on terror - same old same old.

[Army Guy]

The ones in control of the Third Reich were men that generated ideology and inflicted their ideas on the mass, programing them. It was about power - about fun - and the personal profits to be gained and not just finacial ones.

I don't think you can boil it down to something that simple, i think there is a progression to all of it...I don't think it started off that way, Hilter and his merry band of wingnuts sold thier Idealogy to the masses because most of them believed and lived by it.

But to say it was all about power , i don't think so " just my opinion".

[AngusThermopyle]

Oleg, I really don't think the Allies went to war for "fun and profit". In fact they tried as best they could to avert it, with disastrous results, Neville Chamberlain (sp?). If you read Mien Kampf you will see that Hitlers whole premise was based around the concept of the Superman. Couple this with the disaffected feelings of the German populace after years of being marginalized post WW1 and all he had to do was find an enemy to energize the people. That enemy turned out to be the Jews.

In the build up to WWII he never proselytized about making profit. It was all about building the German esteem and restoring them to their natural place as a ruling race. To say all war is about fun and profit is to grossly oversimplify the entire subject. Sure, some wars are fought for profit but an equal amount are fought for an ideology. Do you honestly think Islamic Jihadists are in it for "fun and profit" or could they perhaps be driven by ideology? I think the latter myself.

After twenty years in the service I really cant recall any of my comrades stating that they thought war is fun.

[M.Dancer]

After twenty years in the service I really cant recall any of my comrades stating that they thought war is fun.

...or making any money from it either, I bet.

My uncle was a life vet. Served with the PPCLI during the Second World War and Korea, served as a Blue Beret in Gaza and Cyprus....and I still remember that when he was posted toronto and they lived in the family residences in Oakville, he had a second job to provide enough for the family. Later they moved and he took a job as a Super in order to get a rent discount, he owned a string of vending machines in apartment laundrymats and while doing that, was a stage manager for the CNE horse shows.

He certainly didn't do any of that for the money.

He retired as a W/0.

[AngusThermopyle]

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..or making any money from it either, I bet.

Thats true, the Military has never been known as an upwardly mobile occupation. I think however that the vast majority of members serve for more altruistic reasons than money, much the same as your father.

Thats why it annoys me a little to see the ignorant and uninformed refer to members as "white trash" or infer they are soulless killers as some of our favourite activists around here are wont to do. They could'nt be further from the truth actually.

[M.Dancer]

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....., much the same as your father.

Uncle...my father served from 39-46 and was glad to be done with it. He drove a petrol truck in Italy, France and Holland and was wounded once in an air attack.

He never drove again saying he had enough with bad drivers.

[AngusThermopyle]

Sorry, I'm at work so I don't really have much time to post. I should have checked before I wrote.

[Moxie]

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Thats true, the Military has never been known as an upwardly mobile occupation. I think however that the vast majority of members serve for more altruistic reasons than money, much the same as your father.

Thats why it annoys me a little to see the ignorant and uninformed refer to members as "white trash" or infer they are soulless killers as some of our favourite activists around here are wont to do. They could'nt be further from the truth actually.

Angus it's the propaganda from the peaceniks it's sticks to weak minds like gum, they are currently on a campaign to prevent the Military from attending career days at schools and Universities. Apparently the peaceniks think the big bad military are interested in poe people. I can only shake my head at the ignorance of these people, the average military member attends more courses and and requal programs to keep current than any civie I know. My husband served for twenty years, Pilot, and we are neither poor or uneducated. I know of cooks who have master degrees. It's not about "lack of Education" or being Poe, people join the military because it's a calling and it has nothing to do with killing people.

I personally found the level of integrity and honour of Military Members to surpass what I've experienced since he retired, I miss the people and the lifestyle.

[AngusThermopyle]

I personally found the level of integrity and honour of Military Members to surpass what I've experienced since he retired, I miss the people and the lifestyle.

Thats true, since I retired I have found myself missing many aspects of the life. No, you wont be poor but I really dont think anyone joins in order to become wealthy either. It is a sad fact that military pay has lagged far behind other roughly equivalent proffesions for many years. A 1st year rookie cop makes more than a 13 year Corporal does. That just doesn't seem right to me.

[M.Dancer]

Thats true, since I retired I have found myself missing many aspects of the life. No, you wont be poor but I really dont think anyone joins in order to become wealthy either. It is a sad fact that military pay has lagged far behind other roughly equivalent proffesions for many years. A 1st year rookie cop makes more than a 13 year Corporal does. That just doesn't seem right to me.

When I was younger and seriously considered a military career I was told the payoff came near retirement (when you were in your 40s)... that was when your experiance was a hot commodity. And to be fair I knew a few men who having learned their trades in the airforce got snatched up by Air Canada, CP Air and alike. I even knew a sailor who got snatched (sort of) by Greenpeace and was an officer so to speak on the rainbow warrior.

[Oleg Bach]

When I was younger and seriously considered a military career I was told the payoff came near retirement (when you were in your 40s)... that was when your experiance was a hot commodity. And to be fair I knew a few men who having learned their trades in the airforce got snatched up by Air Canada, CP Air and alike. I even knew a sailor who got snatched (sort of) by Greenpeace and was an officer so to speak on the rainbow warrior.

There is a move a foot to down grade all earnings to that of third world nations - some silly buisness about "being competative" - competative with China perhaps eventually...don't know..if poverty is slowly seeping up through the general ranks of society, there should be no surprise that in time soldier will work for 50 bucks a month beer money and a can of beans, Leave it to some and they would have all work for nothing if they could. Frankly there are those that delight in causing econimic mysery and gage their influence not though or by social benevolence by through how many they can make suffer..military is no exception. They are blue collar boys who are not equal to their high and mighty corporate elite that like the idea of service but don't like to pay ----------for anything if you let them get away with it.