Tasered Polish Man

[capricorn]

MANSLAUGHTER CHARGES ARE IN ORDER IN MY VIEW!!

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail.

I am embarrassed to be Canadian right now!

shavluk, don't be so melodramatic.

[shavluk]

You know nothing about what the police were told before they showed up. You know nothing about what happened before the guy started recording.

Basically you have no business drawing any conclusions about whether the officers used reasonable force until the formal inquest gathers all of the facts.

Neither do the police and they failed by not doing a risk assessment instead being allowed to be worked up by pretend cops or border wanna beeees

BS !! to the second comment!

I am so appalled at what I saw!

With this attitude we will be seeing 4000 police meeting (on somebody's dime ,,again!) like last week as others with this training are retaliated upon.

I know I am more afraid of the RCMP than before I saw this video,,,just the fact they lied about 3 officers instead of 4 or that there was a struggle- and more(i watched it live)

don't confuse the chicken dance with your hands up as a threat unless you are blind.

Edited November 16, 2007 by shavluk

[Riverwind]

It obviously was premeditated (can I taser him???)

but I wouldn't ask for murder1 here

All police officers are tasered as part of their training so they know what it is like to be tasered. Police have been told they can use tasers safely to subdue subjects. If you think pepper spray was acceptable then you *must* accept that using a taser was acceptable given the current police training.

As I said before, you have no business drawing conslusions from the video because you clearly know nothing about police training and procedures.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Riverwind

[shavluk]

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail.

shavluk, don't be so melodramatic.

What if that was your son as they went around confiscating video instead of providing medical attention to maybe try to save himCap? How much of a threat would it have been to see if you have broken his neck and he was smothering?

I am disgusted by some of your views.

[shavluk]

All police officers are tasered as part of their training so they know what it is like to be tasered. Police have been told they can use tasers safely to subdue subjects. If you think pepper spray was acceptable then you *must* accept that using a taser was acceptable given the current police training.

As I said before, you have no business drawing conslusions from the video because you clearly know nothing about police training and procedures.

There is settings for power

and 2 types of zapers the one you always see are the ones attached to the gun where you press it on the person and zap them

the one fired makes you bleed ,,check it out!

[geoffrey]

Dion called for inquiry because he believes that people who can't speak English should not be tasered.

[shavluk]

Did I ever show this one here?

How about tasered even in a police station ,,its that safe?

watch her head

how about this one

treated for injuries,,a cop !

Edited November 16, 2007 by shavluk

[capricorn]

What if that was your son as they went around confiscating video instead of providing medical attention to maybe try to save himCap? How much of a threat would it have been to see if you have broken his neck and he was smothering?

I am disgusted by some of your views.

First of all, as a mother I would have made sure I was present to meet my son when he arrived in a foreign country. Even more so that he didn't know the language and was probably taking his first airplane trip. So no, my son would not be in a similar situation as this poor fellow.

Why would you be disgusted by my views? I think you're delusional most times, but you don't disgust me. I've met worse people than you in my lifetime.

[Carinthia]

First of all, as a mother I would have made sure I was present to meet my son when he arrived in a foreign country. Even more so that he didn't know the language and was probably taking his first airplane trip. So no, my son would not be in a similar situation as this poor fellow.

Why would you be disgusted by my views? I think you're delusional most times, but you don't disgust me. I've met worse people than you in my lifetime.

According to all the reports that I saw, his Mother was there to meet him and spent hours trying to find him. She said she couldn't get assistance from anybody. After a few hours of trying to find him and getting no help from anybody, she probably assumed he had missed his plane in Poland and went home to try to figure out what was going on. A very tragic series of events, as he was tasered far from the gate where his plane had landed. He had obviously spent hours wandering around trying to figure out where to go. Airports have interpreters and none were called to assist this guy.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Carinthia

[shavluk]

First of all, as a mother I would have made sure I was present to meet my son when he arrived in a foreign country. Even more so that he didn't know the language and was probably taking his first airplane trip. So no, my son would not be in a similar situation as this poor fellow.

Why would you be disgusted by my views? I think you're delusional most times, but you don't disgust me. I've met worse people than you in my lifetime.

Cap she was in the next room for 6 hours and had come from Kamloops 400 miles away.

No one would go next door and look for him!

When they finally did (probably didn't )they told her he wasn't there and she should go home as she drove home they left a message to come back and get him even though he was dead.

[Carinthia]

Cap she was in the next room for 6 hours and had come from Kamloops 400 miles away.

No one would go next door and look for him!

When they finally did (probably didn't )they told her he wasn't there and she should go home as she drove home they left a message to come back and get him even though he was dead.

And they didn't tell her he was dead even though they knew this when they phoned her.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Carinthia

[trex]

First of all, as a mother I would have made sure I was present to meet my son when he arrived in a foreign country. Even more so that he didn't know the language and was probably taking his first airplane trip. So no, my son would not be in a similar situation as this poor fellow.

I believe, his "mother" is an old lady. He was not a very young man. Seems un-necessary for mommy to pick up a 40 year old, generally. And he looked alot older than that, to me.

----

Yeah about that taser incident, I believe he was being zapped multiple times... more than once is what they are saying and that Taser seems to me just to be a dangerous device. In fact I don't really see how a Taser CAN be safe. It only takes a few milli-amps of electric current through your body to upset the heartbeat rate, so that the heart begins beating erratically, out of control. Now do that to a person who has a weak, stressed heart to begin with (ie. 70% of americans, about 50% 0f canadians) and see what happens.

As I understand it, the Taser has 50,000 volts but at a lower current than would be considered "dangerous". Still, hitting someone with it multiple times is not only sadistic, but could be dangerous.

I believe I had also read some days ago when this happened, that they called for an ambulance which had to come from outside the airport... I'm not sure about it but the question should be raised, since most airports have medical personnel directly on site, 24/7.

Some research below gives a few interesting asides not yet bubble to the surface of mass-media consciousness...

;^)

----------

Dziekanski, who spoke only Polish, arrived on a plane from Frankfurt, and became agitated after spending up to ten hours in the secure baggage area, where his mother mistakenly told him to wait.

A security guard compounded the confusion by insisting he was speaking Russian. In a tragic irony, translators now say the man was actually relieved when he spotted four Mounties approaching him. He reportedly said he was happy to see them because he thought they had come to save him.

But seconds after they arrived, Dziekanski could be seen writhing on the ground in pain following the first of two jolts. Not long after he was pronounced dead.

A lawyer for the dead man's mother says the hasty police action leaves him astonished. "I was expecting to see a confrontation and a discussion and things to go sideways, and then the Tasering. That's not what you see," said attorney Walter Kosteckyj.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_16797.aspx

------------------------------

Here is the timeline of events after he was tasered. This is about the emergency response-

1:30 - A male has been tasered and is unconscious but breathing. Ambulance is called;

1:32 -- The log reports that Dziekanski has lost consciousness.

1:36 - A Code 3 is issued to paramedics, indicating someone is unconscious.

1:44 - Paramedics arrive, 12 minutes after Dziekanski, 40, first slipped into unconsciousness.

Sources told CTV B.C. that a Code 3 call should have been issued to paramedics immediately after the individual became unconscious. However, it wasn't until four minutes later that the Code 3 went out.

It also reports that an on-site emergency responder had told the team at the airport to hold off on immediately upgrading the status of the call.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

-------------------

This guy actually tried to help him, he worked there regularly and he called the RCMP when he noticed something was wrong with the guy:

Witness blames RCMP, Vancouver airport for death of Tasered man

Lorne Meltzer, a corporate valet, told CBC News Thursday he was at the airport picking up a client just before 1:30 a.m. Sunday and found himself facing Robert Dziekanski.

He said he tried to calm an agitated Dziekanski, 40, in the public arrivals area and unwittingly let the Polish immigrant back into the secure international arrivals area, using his pass to open the one-way doors.

Meltzer has a security pass to the secure international arrivals area, as a personal assistant to a Vancouver businessman who often has clients fly into town.

"I think the responsible parties are the Vancouver Airport and the RCMP for not having other negotiating tactics once he's at the heightened state," said Meltzer, who was the person who called in RCMP.

He said he clearly warned them the man didn't speak English.

Meltzer claimed the officers gave Dziekanski two commands in English and within seconds Tasered him after he held a stapler in an apparent threatening manner. "He [Dziekanski] raised the stapler in the air and they [RCMP] said, 'Put your hands on the desk,' in English," Meltzer said.

Meltzer said the RCMP were too hasty to use the Taser and he refutes the police claim that the area was too crowded to use pepper spray, because "it was empty."

Dziekanski was Tasered by RCMP and later died. Police and a witness conflict in the number of jolts the man is alleged to have received.

RCMP insist that the man was zapped two times, but Sima Ashrafinia, who was at the airport and recorded the incident on her cellphone, told CBC News on Monday that RCMP officers stunned Dziekanski four times.

An autopsy by the B.C. Coroner's Service on Tuesday did not find the cause of death, citing no trauma or disease was found. Officials are still waiting for the results of toxicology tests and microscopic examinations.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/...er.html?ref=rss

[trex]

And they didn't tell her he was dead even though they knew this when they phoned her.

Sick man... So they knew exactly who they were dealing with

[Visionseeker]

Dion called for inquiry because he believes that people who can't speak English should not be tasered.

You #$%&ing a-hole, I got beer coming out of my nose because of you.

I feel awful getting a laugh out of this situation.

[sideshow]

s

Edited March 18, 2008 by sideshow

[Wilber]

NO I CANT I SAW ALL I NEED TO SEE

MANSLAUGHTER CHARGES ARE IN ORDER IN MY VIEW!!

Exactly the same rush to judgment you are accusing the police of. You see what you want to see so there is no need to look at anything else.

[Carinthia]

I would think that when the cops get tasered in training, it is done with care. When they rush at somebody who they want downed, they press a whole lot harder and are not quite so gentle or descretionary as to where they aim the damned thing. Big difference!

[Visionseeker]

Sources told CTV B.C. that a Code 3 call should have been issued to paramedics immediately after the individual became unconscious. However, it wasn't until four minutes later that the Code 3 went out.

It also reports that an on-site emergency responder had told the team at the airport to hold off on immediately upgrading the status of the call.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Once the Mounties radioed "code blue" (not red as narrated), I cannot understand why he didn't initiate first-aid CPR.

I can accept everything that comes before this, by why the #$%& didn't he start CPR? It might not have saved him, but at least he should make an effort.

That is, unless his training tells him that the TASER has already killed the "suspect".

The victim clearly demonstrates respiratory anomalies in the beginning of the film. His breathing patterns would be consistent if he'd just vaulted 20 flights of stairs.

Clearly, this was not a pulmonary (and probably cardiovascular) healthy man. That being said, without a defib, the guy was done once he was TASED IMO.

Sad really. If what I read in the media is right, then this guy died because he wanted to see his Mommy. So much so that he took a fatal tantrum.

I don't blame the Mounties for subduing him, but I do question their attempts to protect him.

[shavluk]

Exactly the same rush to judgment you are accusing the police of. You see what you want to see so there is no need to look at anything else.

I have no illusion any one will be charged.

Clearly we have negligence here and none of these boys will advance past Sargent.

Clearly a tragedy but one we should and must learn from?

[capricorn]

According to all the reports that I saw, his Mother was there to meet him and spent hours trying to find him. She said she couldn't get assistance from anybody. After a few hours of trying to find him and getting no help from anybody, she probably assumed he had missed his plane in Poland and went home to try to figure out what was going on. A very tragic series of events, as he was tasered far from the gate where his plane had landed. He had obviously spent hours wandering around trying to figure out where to go. Airports have interpreters and none were called to assist this guy.

As you say, all the events conspired against the mother and her son with tragic consequences. The mother said she could not get help from anybody. This is something to be concerned about, assuming of course that her claim is factual. I hope the present inquiry will address this to correct any shortcomings in our airports.

[shavluk]

I would think that when the cops get tasered in training, it is done with care. When they rush at somebody who they want downed, they press a whole lot harder and are not quite so gentle or descretionary as to where they aim the damned thing. Big difference!

They let it shock longer thats what I meant and what some of you are missing.

here watch a simple test and the cop says it all ,,LISTEN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNKjw31sqKI...feature=related

Yes you can make it a nicer event BIG TIME !!

PEOPLE THIS HAPPENED A MONTH AND A HALF AGO!!

THE POLICE LIED ABOUT WHAT THEY DID AND TRIED TO HIDE OR BLOCK THIS VIDEO !

Some of you , as I say cant really help it ,your just extinct and dont know it.

[capricorn]

I don't blame the Mounties for subduing him, but I do question their attempts to protect him.

What you're pointing out here is that there is a disconnect between tasering and subsequent first aid. Perhaps this is one aspect of training that is lacking and should be addressed.

[ScottSA]

They let it shock longer thats what I meant and what some of you are missing.

here watch a simple test and the cop says it all ,,LISTEN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNKjw31sqKI...feature=related

Yes you can make it a nicer event BIG TIME !!

PEOPLE THIS HAPPENED A MONTH AND A HALF AGO!!

THE POLICE LIED ABOUT WHAT THEY DID AND TRIED TO HIDE OR BLOCK THIS VIDEO !

Some of you , as I say cant really help it ,your just extinct and dont know it.

Smoke a doob and don't worry about it.

I think what most people are missing is that this wouldn't even be noticed if the guy hadn't died. It would be one of many such incidents that day, and in fact if most of us heard about him being tazed, we'd agree that he should have been. The cops didn't shoot him or give him a Rodney King, or leave him on the outskirts of Regina in January, they did what cops all over north america do daily. They did the right thing to subdue an out of control individual. The fact that the guy died has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of their actions. If they are wrong, so are dozens of cops every day all over the world.

[Carinthia]

Smoke a doob and don't worry about it.

I think what most people are missing is that this wouldn't even be noticed if the guy hadn't died. It would be one of many such incidents that day, and in fact if most of us heard about him being tazed, we'd agree that he should have been. The cops didn't shoot him or give him a Rodney King, or leave him on the outskirts of Regina in January, they did what cops all over north america do daily. They did the right thing to subdue an out of control individual. The fact that the guy died has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of their actions. If they are wrong, so are dozens of cops every day all over the world.

Thank God it was noticed, as now this taser thing is under scrutiny. Lucky for all those who have apparantly been tasered daily, haven't died! Sixteen others in Canada have, not to mention what's gone on in the U.S. Not one single person, who is unarmed and has comitted no real crime, should die in such a reckless fashion at the hands of our law enforcement, ever. I'm sorry, but he didn't look that out of control on that video. They walked in and tasered him wthin seconds, with no questioning, nothing. The cops are using these tasers in a power trip manner. Looks to me like they think they're having fun. A boys and their toys scenario. Sick! Well, now each one of those individuals will have to live with the consequences of their impulsive action.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Carinthia

[Riverwind]

Thank God it was noticed, as now this taser thing is under scrutiny. Lucky for all those who have apparantly been tasered daily, haven't died!

Numerous studies have shown the taser to be innocuous way to subdue an individual. However, the recent deaths have given us good reason to doubt these studies and stricter rules on the use of tazers is likely required. That said, hindsight is 20/20 and we should not be blaming cops for using a tool that was supposed to be innocuous.

There was a time when all paint was made with lead and nobody had an issue with it. However, as we became aware of the health consequences we banned the use of lead but that does not mean we should villify a house painter for using these lead paints before we became aware of the health consequences.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Riverwind