NCC apologizes and removes portrait that offends Francophones

[Smallc]

Of course not.

Those are only lackey's of traitor Trudeau and his private on going war, 'Battle of the Plains of Abraham' against the majority English speakers of Canada.

Like I said, 'federalism' does not, or cannot work in Canada with Quebec in confederation, but you would never know it with federal politicians that continue to play federal dysfunctional politics, as if everything is 'honkey dorey'.

This belongs in 'Ripley's'.

That's it, I'm going to get my tinfoil hat.

[jefferiah]

What? Other than he is obviously considered an insulting figure? Do you also support the confederate flag flown over the head office of the NAACP?

That's a bad comparison. An historical figure who posed the idea that it would a good thing to be a unilingual nation and that since it was British territory that language ought to be English does not sound so outlandish to me. Personally I have no doubt that had it been the French who won this would not be a bilingual nation. And you are comparing this to the Confederate flag which to the NAACP would be a symbol of breeding their own people like cattle for slavery. That's a bit much M. Dancer. This is not in the Confederate flag league, but perhaps a few steps up from the Shane Doan league.

You would be hard pressed to find historical figures who did not say something offensive. Abe Lincoln said some things about the lesser intelligence of a certain race he was trying to free from slavery, I believe. And based on the case against this fellow, I would say alot of people could just as easily demand Trudeau's picture come down from displays.

[M.Dancer]

Personally I have no doubt that had it been the French who won this would not be a bilingual nation.

After being incorporated into France, it has taken 100s of years for French to become the majority language in Alsace. Even today the Alsatian dialect is spoken by about 20% of the population.

And it is still listed as a official regional language of France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_France

[jefferiah]

After being incorporated into France, it has taken 100s of years for French to become the majority language in Alsace. Even today the Alsatian dialect is spoken by about 20% of the population.

And it is still listed as a official regional language of France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_France

And are all road signs in France provided in both French and Alsatian. Are civil servants required to speak Alsatian. French politicians as well? A unilingual nation does not mean that French would be banned. It means that people who are not French would not be required to speak it.

Edited November 9, 2007 by jefferiah

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Lord Durham was quite wrong for claiming that another (an officially recognized Canadian) people was inferior... especially due to language.

Canadians are quite sensitive about the issue. It's not a matter of catering to QC, it's a matter of catering to all Canadians of all provinces who understand that glorifying a bigot is not a good idea.

IMHO, Mackenzie King on our 50 CAD note is also a terrible person... he was an anti-semite and a nazi sympathiser prior to WWII and forced Canadians to help the British (even worse, forced Canadians to help the French, considering most of Québec sees no need for any ties with France to my understanding). However IMHO the English are terrible for honoring terrible people... they have Charles Darwin on one of their notes! Thank heavens I don't live in England! IMO, we should not honor any terrible person. I guess it's a start by removing Lord Durham's picture.

I'd be more sympathetic to the English victory of the plains of Abe had the English properly claimed their victory. The winners only win what they claim and whatever they leave is lost. Why did the English not change the language of instruction in schools in Québec? Beats me. It appears to me that the English did not properly carry out their colonization, and now we have to live with the results. Welcome to Canada, a country with two languages.

[jefferiah]

I'd be more sympathetic to the English victory of the plains of Abe had the English properly claimed their victory. The winners only win what they claim and whatever they leave is lost. Why did the English not change the language of instruction in schools in Québec? Beats me. It appears to me that the English did not properly carry out their colonization, and now we have to live with the results. Welcome to Canada, a country with two languages.

Your name isn't Lord Durham is it?

[jefferiah]

deleted

Edited November 9, 2007 by jefferiah

[M.Dancer]

And are all road signs in France provided in both French and Alsatian. Are civil servants required to speak Alsatian. French politicians as well? A unilingual nation does not mean that French would be banned. It means that people who are not French would not be required to speak it.

Many speakers of Alsatian write in standard German. Street names in the Alsace may use Alsatian spellings (they were formerly displayed only in French but are now bilingual in some places, especially Strasbourg)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f...Elsassiska.jpeg

Are all roads signs bilingual in Canada, last I looked they were not.....

All thoise other things are irrelevant, Aslatians are not 20% of France....

[jefferiah]

However IMHO the English are terrible for honoring terrible people...

Lol. You must have something against the English then, since by the same logic most other nations and ethnicities honor people others would find offensive.

[jefferiah]

All thoise other things are irrelevant, Aslatians are not 20% of France....

And if they were they would still be required to speak french in Paris, rather than Paris speak Alsatian for them.

Basically you just admitted your own example is irrelevant.

The argument here is not whether we should have one language or two, but whether it was such an outlandish idea back then. You compared it to the Confederate flag (ie slavery, segregation, etc). That is pushing it, M Dancer. You know it. What he said is relatively mild compared to things a lot of people said. I would say there is a better case for people to demand Trudeau's picture be removed from displays.

Edited November 9, 2007 by jefferiah

[M.Dancer]

And if they were they would still be required to speak french in Paris, rather than Paris speak Alsatian for them.

Basically you just admitted your own example is irrelevant.

No my example of the French not forcing the Alsatians rendered your musings irrelevant.

Personally I have no doubt that had it been the French who won this would not be a bilingual nation

You had no doubt but history speaks otherwise. Alsace is bilingual. Switzerland is tri-ligual...

[jefferiah]

No my example of the French not forcing the Alsatians rendered your musings irrelevant.

You had no doubt but history speaks otherwise. Alsace is bilingual. Switzerland is tri-ligual...

Switzerland? What is the relevance of that? What is the other language of Alsace?

Once again you fail to distinguish between having an official lnaguage for government and civil service and banning a language outright. No one would ban french. But should it be mandatory to speak it in Parliament? How does it work in France, M?

Edited November 9, 2007 by jefferiah

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Lol. You must have something against the English then, since by the same logic most other nations and ethnicities honor people others would find offensive.

Yeah, I probably could hold something against just about anyone. But who has a man who came up with a theory and admitted it was false on his death bed, a vegetarian and a racist on one of their notes? Other than the English, I can't think of any. Fortunately no one has Lord Durham on any of their notes yet to the best of my knowledge.

I just wish the US currency would have Norman Borlaug on one of their notes, yet I don't know if it's the opportune time to get a new face on such an unstable currency.

[jefferiah]

deleted

Edited November 9, 2007 by jefferiah

[M.Dancer]

Switzerland? What is the relevance of that? What is the other language of Alsace?

Once again you fail to distinguish between having an official lnaguage for government and civil service and banning a language outright. No one would ban french. But should it be mandatory to speak it in Parliament? How does it work in France, M?

About as relevant as your ahistorical musings I suppose....

By the way, it isn't mandatory to speak French in Parliament.

[jefferiah]

About as relevant as your ahistorical musings I suppose....

By the way, it isn't mandatory to speak French in Parliament.

Well I would think it would be hard to understand what the Bloc Quebecois is saying if one did not speak French. Do the Alsatians speak Alsatian over there in political debate with French politicians M?

Ah you know you are losing now M. Look at the weak little insult.

I have no doubt you are my superior in matters of history, science and such. You are an intelligent well-read man. I am fully aware of that. Nonetheless it does you no good this time. You know your comparison is a sham. And you know it is not such an outlandish thing to suggest. Certainly not on par with the Confederate flag blowing above the NAACP headquarters.

Edited November 9, 2007 by jefferiah

[M.Dancer]

Ah you know you are losing now M. Look at the weak little insult.

Well I would think it would be hard to understand what the Bloc Quebecois is saying. Do the Alsatians speak Alsatian over there in political debate with French politicians M?

That wasn't an insult and I'm sorry you took it that way. You pondered about a historical possibility....and the posndering is ahistorical...get past it.

Fact is France did not ban Alasatian.....and it isn't mandatory to speak french in parliament, and there are bilingual road signs in Alsace.

[jefferiah]

That wasn't an insult and I'm sorry you took it that way. You pondered about a historical possibility....and the posndering is ahistorical...get past it.

Fact is France did not ban Alasatian.....and it isn't mandatory to speak french in parliament, and there are bilingual road signs in Alsace.

Oh please M Dancer. Now you really are dancing. And you are not doing a very good job of it. Tell me in French parliament do Alsatian politicians speak Alsatian?

Fact is no one was talking about banning french. But making English the official language of work and government.

Edited November 9, 2007 by jefferiah

[jefferiah]

deleted....i keep pressing reply instead of edit

Edited November 9, 2007 by jefferiah

[M.Dancer]

Oh please M Dancer. Now you really are dancing. And you are not doing a very good job of it. Tell me in French parliament do Alsatian politicians speak Alsatian?

Fact is no one was talking about banning french. But making English the official language of work and government.

I really don't know if Alsatian speak German in Paris....but if you made English the official language....what effect do you think it would have shorty of banning french, on the hundreds of thousands uniligual french canadians who rely on the Fedearl government? You really want seniors citizans going without pensions because they can't read the documentation? New mothers unable to apply for a birth certificate?

That suggestion is ludicrous.

[jefferiah]

I really don't know if Alsatian speak German in Paris....but if you made English the official language....what effect do you think it would have shorty of banning french, on the hundreds of thousands uniligual french canadians who rely on the Fedearl government? You really want seniors citizans going without pensions because they can't read the documentation? New mothers unable to apply for a birth certificate?

That suggestion is ludicrous.

This fellow made this suggestion years and years ago, M. It was not a horrible heinous act. Come off it.

The idea would have been that over time French people would have had to have had English ability. Did they have pensions then, M? My village was settled by a lot of celts M. The church here had a Gaelic speaking Minister at first. But I think over time they had to adapt. Nothing so outlandish about suggesting it, especially in that time frame. The vast majority of Alsatians speak French. Tell me does the French government issue tax forms and such in Alsatian? I have no doubt that had the French won, though English may not have been made illegal M, that our tax forms would not be available en anglais.

The fact that English and French are both official languages means that a lot of languages are not. But neither are they banned M. Como esta? Hey no police showed up yet.

Edited November 9, 2007 by jefferiah

[Leafless]

That's it, I'm going to get my tinfoil hat.

Now why would you do that, unless you honestly believe Mr.Trudeau was indeed saving Canada and not working for Quebecers and their political ideologies and lack of advancement for Quebecers in Canadian/Quebec society.

With the failure of both Meech and the Charlottetown Accord, Mr. Trudeau killed many birds at the same time (preserving the French language) by forcing Canadians to accept Quebec as a distinct society, as a society with a language just as equal by law as the English language, as a society and people with special privileges (relating to public service employment and official bilingualism and its promotion throughout Canada, not including Quebec) in a dictatorial Canadian Charter and amended with the rest of our constitution forming a Canadian Constitution.

This is on top of the fact of forcing Canadian tax payers to foot the bill.

Edited November 9, 2007 by Leafless

[Argus]

What? Other than he is obviously considered an insulting figure?

By whom? And why would that matter? If a group considered Sir John A Macdonald an insulting figure would you ban all reference to him in schoolbooks and tear down all statues and plaques?

Durham was very clearly and very obviously a major historical figure who had a great deal of positive influence on the development of Canada. The fact he thought Canada should be English is irrelevant to that. Chretien once mused that he wished the French had won the Battle of the Plains of Abraham and that Canada was French. And he did it today, not two hundred years back. Should we shoot him?

[M.Dancer]

With the failure of both Meech and the Charlottetown Accord, Mr. Trudeau killed many birds at the same time (preserving the French language) by forcing Canadians to accept Quebec as a distinct society, as a society with a language just as equal by law as the English language, as a society and people with special privileges (relating to public service employment and official bilingualism and its promotion throughout Canada, not including Quebec) in a dictatorial Canadian Charter and amended with the rest of our constitution forming a Canadian Constitution.

Remind me ,who the PM was during Meech and Charlottetown?

Edited November 9, 2007 by M.Dancer

[Leafless]

Remind me ,who the PM was during Meech and Charlottetown?

A Quebecer if I remember correctly.