Doctors Considering

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071009/...ors_coming_home

About one in 10 Canadian-trained doctors who have moved to the United States would consider returning to their native land to practise medicine, a survey by the Canadian Medical Association suggests.

The April survey of almost 1,540 Canadian physicians showed that 13 per cent of respondents would be "likely" or "very likely" to return home and that more than half would be willing to hear about practice opportunities in Canada.

While heartening to hear that some Canadian doctors practising south of the border are thinking of coming home, CMA president Dr. Brian Day said the number is "nowhere near enough" to solve the doctor shortage in Canada.

To reach the international target of three physicians for every 1,000 people set out by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), Day said Canada would need to add 26,000 doctors to the 80,000 to 90,000 practising here.

"And that's a real challenge now," the orthopedic surgeon said Tuesday from Vancouver.

"We have 17 medical schools right now and producing doctors, but we're halfway to being self-sufficient in doctors," he said. "And this is going to get much worse."

It seems to me that an aggressive recruiting campaign by the provinces might be a positive step.

[guyser]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071009/...ors_coming_home

It seems to me that an aggressive recruiting campaign by the provinces might be a positive step.

Docs have been coming back for a couple of years it seems.

Now if we could get some of the foreign born training here to stay, well we would be in better shape.

[mikedavid00]

Docs have been coming back for a couple of years it seems.

Now if we could get some of the foreign born training here to stay, well we would be in better shape.

When you posted that you must have known I was going to respond.

[old_bold&cold]

I do take this as good news, as while a lot of doctors in the USA do put in less time then most in Canada, they still burn out much faster. I am not sure why, but I can only assume it is the pressure they are put under. Now that the Canadian dollar is back above the USD, it probably does not make much sense to stay south of the border. This would be good for us here but yes it will need many more to become what we would call a good working model.

[guyser]

When you posted that you must have known I was going to respond.

Well .....respond then.

[mikedavid00]

Well .....respond then.

The 1,000 doctors is nothing. It's a joke.

I hope it doesn't include nurses either.

Surgens are elites in Canada and like it that way. Most do not move to the US.

The people who move are mainly nurses, young grads, and of course, international students and immigrants. They don't give a God damn to stay here and help us out.

We end up footing the bill.

We don't need anymore damn caugh and cold clinics. We need surgens and specialists.

But what we really need is more educational space in our schooling system.

Many will disagree but I feel that elitism in our medical schools is a major problem. Major, major problem. The only way to fix this is through..

drum roll....

private healthcare!!

[Michael Hardner]

Can't we increase the supply ?

And, of course, the big question:

Why don't Canadians demand access to data that they can use to get their own answers ?

Why do we rely on unions, self-monitoring government agencies and obtuse media to give us no answers at all ?

[jdobbin]

Docs have been coming back for a couple of years it seems.

Now if we could get some of the foreign born training here to stay, well we would be in better shape.

I'm not sure about other areas but Manitoba has improved those numbers of foreign born doctors staying quite a bit. The problem is this large amount of doctors about to retire. They have only recently increased the numbers of docs at the med school but as you know, it is a long time from start to graduation.

Edited October 10, 2007 by jdobbin

[guyser]

Yes I knew you'd respond, but not this poorly!

The 1,000 doctors is nothing. It's a joke.

I hope it doesn't include nurses either.

What 1000 doctors, what do you refer this to?

Let me help you out miked.....it says Doctors...not nurses, nor mechanics nor janitors....it says Doctors. So why ask if it includes nurses?

Surgens are elites in Canada and like it that way. Most do not move to the US.

The people who move are mainly nurses, young grads, and of course, international students and immigrants. They don't give a God damn to stay here and help us out.

For heavens sake boy, what the **** are you talking about?

We end up footing the bill.

Foreign born studying to become Docs pay the Univ's , not the other way around.

We don't need anymore damn caugh and cold clinics. We need surgens and specialists.

But what we really need is more educational space in our schooling system.

Judging by your spelling on this post, perhaps your own advice should be taken?

[jdobbin]

Can't we increase the supply ?

And, of course, the big question:

Why don't Canadians demand access to data that they can use to get their own answers ?

Why do we rely on unions, self-monitoring government agencies and obtuse media to give us no answers at all ?

Who else do you suggest gather this information?

[Canadian Blue]

private healthcare!!

I believe a study of England, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, all showed that despite private healthcare waiting times were not drastically reduced. Perhaps what we need is more healthcare funding instead of tax cuts, or at the very least reforming the health care system, and put an increased focus on health wellness.

[jennie]

I believe a study of England, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, all showed that despite private healthcare waiting times were not drastically reduced. Perhaps what we need is more healthcare funding instead of tax cuts, or at the very least reforming the health care system, and put an increased focus on health wellness.

Yes, that's what I have read too, no improvement in quality and higher administrative costs. Health care in the US, for example, is much more expensive than ours when all costs are calculated. Because of the duplication in administration - public, private, the entire system is more costly but the extra cost of private health care is in providing administration, not health services.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, that's what I have read too, no improvement in quality and higher administrative costs. Health care in the US, for example, is much more expensive than ours when all costs are calculated. Because of the duplication in administration - public, private, the entire system is more costly but the extra cost of private health care is in providing administration, not health services.

Only half true...the additional costs seen in the USA are also because more services are actually provided. Americans pay more because they get more. Canada takes advantage of the excess (more expensive) US capacity when provinces can't cope with acute care demand that won't tolerate intolerable wait times. Just ask baby Aiden's mum.

Edited October 11, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[margrace]

Only half true...the aditional costs seen in the USA are also because more services are actually provided. Americans pay more because they get more. Canada takes advantage of the excess (more expensive) US capacity when provinces can't cope with acute care demand that won't tolerate intolerable wait times. Just ask baby Aiden's mum.

Just curious, you seem to be so totaly against public health care, can you give a reason?

[bush_cheney2004]

Just curious, you seem to be so totaly against public health care, can you give a reason?

False accusation..I already pay for a "public health care" system that dwarfs all of anything in Canada. What I am against is a CommieCare system that restricts free enterprise from a mandated list of procedures. The intellectual property of trained medical professionals and service/products suppliers should not be subject to such controls on market demand, supply, or distribution.

I also do not believe that health care (and associated human labor/products) is a right to be guaranteed by government.

[margrace]

So what you are saying is that poor people should just die and decrease the population.

[guyser]

Canada takes advantage of the excess (more expensive) US capacity when provinces can't cope with acute care demand that won't tolerate intolerable wait times. Just ask baby Aiden's mum.

And American s are shipped here when the facilities/expertise cannot correct the problem.

Commie care, what BS.

Edited October 11, 2007 by guyser

[bush_cheney2004]

So what you are saying is that poor people should just die and decrease the population.

No...you said that. People of all income levels and wealth die each day. Yet, the population is not decreasing the last time I checked, not even for nations with abysmal health care systems or none at all.

[fellowtraveller]

While heartening to hear that some Canadian doctors practising south of the border are thinking of coming home, CMA president Dr. Brian Day said the number is "nowhere near enough" to solve the doctor shortage in Canada.

What a bit of misdirection that is, the head of the CMA moaning about a shortage that is largely the creation of his members.

Doctors/medical associations control admissions to medical schools, graduation from those schools, licensing of all physicians,heavily influence hospital privileges, conduct their own disciplinary and ethical investigations, and essential;y control licensing of all applaications for license or residcency or accrediation from outside their own province.

The first place they should look when pondering the shortage of doctors is in the mirror.

The doctors who left Canada to work in the USA should be required to repay their expensive, heavily taxpayer subsidized educations before being licensed again in Canada. It would only be fair.

[guyser]

What a bit of misdirection that is, the head of the CMA moaning about a shortage that is largely the creation of his members.

Doctors/medical associations control admissions to medical schools, graduation from those schools, licensing of all physicians,heavily influence hospital privileges, conduct their own disciplinary and ethical investigations, and essential;y control licensing of all applaications for license or residcency or accrediation from outside their own province.

The first place they should look when pondering the shortage of doctors is in the mirror.

Agreed

The doctors who left Canada to work in the USA should be required to repay their expensive, heavily taxpayer subsidized educations before being licensed again in Canada. It would only be fair.

Dont agree. Dont believ they are heavily subsidized. They pay plenty to get into a good med school and have debts up the wazoo when they get out. But then again, who doesnt unless dad can write big cheques.

[Michael Hardner]

jdobbin,

Thanks for responding to my post.

Who else do you suggest gather this information?

There is a missing link in the media right now.

If you look at the depth to which issues are covered on MapleLeafWeb, you will notice that there is nothing like that in MSM that covers issues to this extent. The web is great for informing people on issues, but unfortunately, it's all top-down now. That is, the information falls from blessed official sources when they deem it necessary to inform us.

We need a new media vehicle that discusses issues, not campaign strategies - and one that has influence.

[jdobbin]

There is a missing link in the media right now.

If you look at the depth to which issues are covered on MapleLeafWeb, you will notice that there is nothing like that in MSM that covers issues to this extent. The web is great for informing people on issues, but unfortunately, it's all top-down now. That is, the information falls from blessed official sources when they deem it necessary to inform us.

We need a new media vehicle that discusses issues, not campaign strategies - and one that has influence.

One that discusses healthcare issues? In which way? Financial or on the actual issue of health itself? The media has very little coverage of medical issues except to discuss it like a fad diet. I like the Globe's writer Andre Picard on health issues but is such a small section of a rather large newspaper.

[Visionseeker]

Couple of things I’d like to point-out:

- first, this was a survey of 1504 Canadian doctors in the US, but there’s no mention of how many Canadian doctors are actually in the US. 13% of 1504 is quite small, but 13% of the actual number of Canadian physicians in the US is what exactly?

- second, if a number of Canadian physicians are warm to coming back, what number of American or foreign trained physicians in the US might also be warmed to the idea?

- third, have equivalent studies been performed to measure how many Canadian nurses would come back? For few might recognize that one of the reasons for surgical backlog stems from a shortage of surgical nurses.

New Brunswick recently announced a new incentive to attract physicians that could really pay-off. After already guaranteeing a first year salary of $175,000, NB went a step further by offering $50,000 to physicians willing to practice in outlying regions (at least 40 kilometers outside of St-John, Fredericton or Moncton).

I, for one, can assure you that if the province were to invite interested US physicians on a tour of the Northumberland coast, they’d have so many applicants that they could turn the program around and ask for a $25,000 deposit as insurance that the physician stays for a minimum of 5 years.

As a cardiologist émigré from John Hopkins said to me recently, “if I knew about this gig, I’d have come here as soon as I’d finished my residency.”

Life style and security. These are BIG selling points to many US physicians. We need to start selling this south of the border and elsewhere.

[Michael Hardner]

One that discusses healthcare issues? In which way? Financial or on the actual issue of health itself? The media has very little coverage of medical issues except to discuss it like a fad diet. I like the Globe's writer Andre Picard on health issues but is such a small section of a rather large newspaper.

jd,

There are many issues that deserve deep analysis and discussion, but none get it. Healthcare and education need better dialogue, yes.

One of the reasons 'religion in schools' and issues like that are so popular is that it takes zero effort to understand them.

[guyser]

Life style and security. These are BIG selling points to many US physicians. We need to start selling this south of the border and elsewhere.

Add in savings in the tens of thousands range on E&O Ins and things will improve.