Army Guy

Yes, i am currently serving in CFB (sunny) Petawawa Ont.

AZIZ. I guess that would depend on just were you practiced your religion, if you were born in Afgan,Iraq, or many of the other radical muslim dictatorships what would your equation read. Islam=Quran + what ever your local religous leader is preaching like hate,Jihad, what ever benifits them. I think because Islam is a religous culture the extremists have taken advantage of this for thier benifit, to convince those who's believes are very strong or those not as educated as most to become extremists in the name of thier religion.

There seems to be some misconceptions about BMD, thier are serveral componets that make up the entire system. A land based system for long range high alt missles (ballistic missles) Another land based system made up of patriot and other Air defense systems to counter low flying cruise and other low flying missles. And a sea based system on board an Aegis type destroyer or frigate. Combined they make up the entire Missle defense system. MDA My Webpage My Webpage There are many portions to this Missile defense system and most work or very close to becoming mass produced and put into military service. That being said Canada was only offered a seat at the table "at no charge" because of possiable future radar sites tying it all in with existing Norad sites. How it all works is in the below link. url=http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/nmd/]My Webpage[/url] So it's not just for those high alt missles but for any incoming missle threat. I think the public have been either mis informed or not told the whole story from both sides the US and Canadian Governments. Those that think that the whole system comes at no price tag to Canada think again. those ground based short range systems and the Aegis systems have a huge price tag and would be required to complete the system ...sort of in for a penny in for a pound. Canada will have to decide what it wants more money, or a total defense and most will agree it's not defense that a large portion of the population wants.

Agreed, Mr hellier was not very popular among'st the Military after unification of the elements.

MAR. No you were right, Diefenbaker did tell Kennedy "he would not put his military on high alert" My piont was that the Canadain Military disregarded those orders and placed thier troops on High readiness because they saw the situation as it really was and were it was leading to, and nuke stand off. DND had ordered it's ships to par take in the blockade to atleast have a seat at the table when the button was pushed. Diefenbaker relented when he found out that DND had acted against his orders.

Mar. I think if you research the Cuban Missle Crisis you'll find that our Military was on high alert, in fact Canadian warships were part of the blockade, these orders came from DND, not the PM.

There seems to be a few misconceptions about our Military out there. There are a few rules to becoming a member 1. you must be a Canadian citizen, 2. must be of the ages of 17 -50. 3. you can not have a crimanal record.( If you do you'll be asked to apply for and be granted a pardon before you apply.) 4. you must be able to pass a physical. 5. you must pass a written,and oral exam. Thats it, Thats all. There are no exceptions at all. The military stop accepting youths ref by the courts some 20-15 years ago because of human rights issues and the whole program really never produced results. Recruit training is designed to weed out those kids with major attitude or social problems in the early stages of training. Human rights and other so called groups have already diluted the training, by reducing standards to fit women, and other ethinic groups to ensure DND remains within our goverments diveristy standards, IE so many women, so many of each ethinic back ground adding kids with thier own problems will only degrade this problem even farther. My piont is that these kids require alot of one on one training, and in a dept such as DND there are no individuals. very little time is spent on training Indiv's and the majority of time is spent on training a team. Those that can not grab the team concept quickly are normally weeded out. Another piont i'd like to piont out , that yes DND is very undermanned but getting recruits is not the issue there are thousands that want to join and serve thier country. The problem is training them and housing them once they are in. There is just no infra struture available to train them as fast as we need them. This problem is not going away anytime soon unless the Government throws money at it. Finally one question you have to ask yourself as a tax payer is do you want some one operating multi million or billion dollar equipment designed for war, that has a major social or attitude problem.

Some very interesting pionts have been brought up in regards to our military which truely needs some form of intervention be it by the people (voters) or the government to make it once again a viable department. I think Black dog hit the nail on the head, DND needs a white paper that clearly defines what the people of Canada want from there military. And the mission creep he talks about is already there" to many jobs not enough equipment to accomplish them all". All that being said, years of neglect have left the dept in very sad condition and what every equipment is bought would be welcome by the Dept. Again i agree with black dog, peacekeeping was not the primary role for the Department, yes we became good at it ,but with the decline of the powers of the UN ,UN sponsored missions have not produced the same results as say peace making missions run by NATO. I think that the whole peace keeping process should be redesigned to include a vast array of depts. Limiting DND's role to short term peace establishment then leaving. Allowing the other depts to carry out thier functions. Agreed, But there must be some piont or time that someone has to take action. Hopefully this action comes before it becomes mission impossiable"just to expensive to revive" I think that this statement is a little unfair, Gen Hillier is Army but is surrounded with the commanders of each element whom i'm sure aticulate each elements needs and wants. with peanuts for a budget i think he's done well with what he's had to work with. That being said the cheapest element to outfit is the Army, most single Army contracts are not worth the billions that say a frigate replacement project or F-18 replacement project would cost. Or what the government is willing to shell out.

That explains it all, a worldly quote from a man who wants to continue running our nation. I hope that is not the best Canada can do and i hope the rest of Canada speaks through thier votes.

Black dog: There is already a federal dept and provincal depts of emergency preparedness which is funded out of the Military budget. Accounting for just over 1/4 of DND's total budget. As a cost saving measure it was agreed to use military equipment and personal for reasons already stated in other posts. You'll have to admit the military does go along way in carrying out our foreign policies.

I agree that spreading already existing and established Regular force units or formations across the nation is "not" the answer, and would only dilute thier effectiveness in any situation , be it preparing for combat or national crisses. Unless they were new formations that were created. On the other hand Harper never really was specfic in what "Military forces he wanted in our cities" regular or reserve forces, and perhaps we are all just assuming that is what he meant (putting in regular force units) . The Dept of national defense has been saying for years that it wants to increase the size of our reserve and Militia forces. These forces are already located in most if not all major popualation centers across the country. Yes they have guns, Tanks, even aircraft. and have had this equipment for decades. They are postioned in each of these population centers because that is where thier primary jobs are, being a reserve or part of a militia unit is thier secondary job. Thier not there to control the population, or in case of a national crisses ie forest fire, Ice strom, or flood, those units are there because that is where the population is based. Mr. Martin is not only the leader of the liberal party but is responsiable for all it's actions including all those that happen in the election campiagn, But he is also the PM of this country...of which the Department of National defense serve. His comments depict every man,women that has served or is currently serving our country as blood thristy beasts that threaten the very people they are paid to serve, and are unworthy or uncapable of living side by side with the rest of ordinary citizens of Canada. These comments only go to prove what the Liberal party truly thinks about the men and women of our Armed Forces. That risk thier lives on a daily basis putting our governments words and promises into action. These are not the comments expected of the leader of this Nation, but words of a desperate liberal trying to stay in the pork barrel.

What is the difference, the Navy is still part of our Military forces is it not. And your right it is all about perception and interpretation exactly what the liberals wanted. The fact remains that our military did assist the US naval forces during the time the invasion took place. Jordan

When as a nation have we used our military based on a bad chioce ? And i can't say with 100 % certainity that it will not happen in the future, However most of our operations that Canada has been involed with have been on a volunteer opition, if a soldier does not fully agree with the operation he simply does not volunteer. Yes there has been periods that this country has ordered it's citizens to war. but even then there are clauses placed in there to allow an indiv an out. When have we as a nation gone to war or sent troops solely based on the fact we were protecting the interest of the wealthy and powerful? As for the OIL aspect the western world depends on oil for it survival, not only the rich and powerful but everyone. The war on Iraq is not going to change that. Nor is it going to solve that, How much oil is actually imported from the outside the US, i think you'll find those numbers very small. Not every military operation is the same, but for the most part Canada as a nation has taken part in some noble operations. Which have primarily been about rights and freedoms if not ours then someone elses. Everyone is going to have different reasons for joining up and fighting. What freedoms would we have now under Nazi rule. Again you are entitled to your opinon. I believe this nation needs a force of people that are willing to stand-up to those that may want to take something from this country be it our freedoms or rights. And when man finally grows up and decides it's armys are no longer required i'll be the first to turn in my uniform.

The task force you are talking about was part of a US naval battle group which included an A/C carrier. what do you think that battle group was doing in the gulf if not supporting the invasion. Intercepting and boarding what suspect ships ( Iraqi ships) If that is not enough why are we now training Iraqi military and police forces in Jordan. We are involved, our goverment is just not telling you the whole truth. All this info is available on the DND web site.

A tool of the goverment perhaps yes, but no more than any other government worker. As far as our government is concerned and the powers to send us into combat your right we are at thier mercy to a piont , but we rely on the voters to keep them in check. Besides soldiers are not just going to throw thier lifes away for a governments bad chioce or politcal asperations. you've lost me, what privileged place are you talking about, Europe not under german control, or the rest of us under Nazi control. what have we siezed from someone else to earn our priviliged place. How do you get that (above) out of what you wrote (below) And as you've pionted out above you sure they protect our freedoms and are making a difference why not just say "thanks" and save your comments for those that deserve it. I agree that war is not to be glorified, and is the result of the lack of strong government leadership. but then your statement was not about war, but soldiers and citizens that believe there are things worth fighting over. such as rights and freedoms. Suckers."

It is relevent, it has everything to do with it. They joined because they believe that they can make a difference, that there sacrifice will be worth something. But, for the most part, it doesn't. And it's not. Thats your opinion, i have been doing this for over 26 years now, and i still believe that every endevour Canada has taken place in has been worth it. every last minute of it. To you it's a lie, to us that do it everyday it's what we believe in, and we do that as strongly as you do, in disbelieving it. when they stop believing they'll stop and get out of the military. Soldiers are not a bunch of mindless robots, everyone is giving the option to get out, war time being a little different but no one can make an indiv fight if the don't want to. Those that do believe what they are doing is right. Then what are you saying other than they are "suckers" implying that all our present freedoms that we take advantage of daily where not worth the price they paid for them. What price would you pay for any if not all the freedoms you enjoy today. What is it you are trying to tell me, that you don't like your current freedoms because the price was to high. And to achieve our current freedoms it took military intervention. the western world got to where it is now, through alot more than it's supremacy of arms "canada a perfect example" but it does retain it's current freedoms because it's military acts as a deterant to others. I think you watch to much TV, And regardless of what i post i will not change your mind, as someone has feed you a line of shit and you've bought it hook line and sinker. Soldiers are regular people just like you they have families ,dreams , asperations just like the rest of Canadians why is it so hard for you to believe that those that wear the uniform are going above and beyond that the everyday Canadian citizen does and they do it because they believe that what they are doing is worth it. they believe it is going to improve someones life. Stop thinking that the world is full of roses ...it's not ..it's full of thugs, scumbags who would not think twice of taking what every you have, and put 2 in your forehead just because. Someone has to stand up . Draw a line in the stand and tell them cross it and pay the price.

It is relevent, it has everything to do with it. They joined because they believe that they can make a difference, that there sacrifice will be worth something. It's not about taking a few moments and remembering those that sent them to fight...it's about those who believed it was a worthy cause and risked thier lives for a better future. Thats all. Soldiers don't care much for politics or the people that send them into battle. And there not doing it for our political masters they are doing it for a better future, hoping that their sacrafice will mean something to someone someday. To call those people suckers is a slap in the face. It implies that those that did go before us, did so in vain and yet we are here today taking advantage of the fruits of thier labour. The world may of been a much different place had they not gone and fought in the fields of Ypres, Somme,Vimy Ridge,or Dieppe,battle of britain,Holland,korea and the many many more battles. The piont is this, It's not about approval of War, or our political masters it's about taking a moment and saying thanks to a soldier. A Hero, just like a firemen, or a policemen. No the game stops, when man figures out a way to solve his problems with out violence. We both know that is not going to happen in the near future.

Black dog: Comments better served ,by keeping them to yourself. I'm sure that every soldier has his owns reasons for serving his country. I also sure that none join for the reasons you've mentioned. Calling them suckers, because they have a different set of morals, a different set of values and see the world in a different light than you do is an insult. Don't hate the player hate the game.

don't think there's too much of a question about it. The world is now very different than it was pre-Iraq-II. Muslims around the world are now lining up to be recruited into anti-American groups... like never before... So I wouldn't say that the world is safer at all.... or better off... unless of course you have shares in Exxon, BP, or Haliburton Thats not true, it is not becoming more popular with foreign muslims it's actually estamated that they make up only 10 % of the insurgents. Number of total insurgents are est at between 10,000 and 30,000. Compare those numbers to ones that are jioning the Iraq military, police,etc and you'll find that more Iraqi's are jioning the US coalitlition side than the insurgents side. What message does that send. It proves that they are more interested in getting on with thier lifes than fighting the US and coalition forces. As you suggested. No i'm not, those guys that attacked England,Spain, etc were part of a small cell of terrorists of maybe 6 to 10 people out of the millions of Muslims in the world they make up what % of the total muslim population. your statement above makes it sound likes thousands are joining and they are not. Just a few radicals. So let me get this straight you can assist in war operations again'st Iraqi forces, terrorists,and other hostile forces and not be considered actually taking part in the war on Iraq. Is that what you are saying.. Because that is what i am trying to tell you, that the Canadian Navy along with Maritime A/C assisted in operations again'st Iraq. The answer to your question is NO, Canadian troops did not land troops in Iraq, they did however take part in naval operations again'st Iraq. Our Liberal party lied to you and to the rest of us. Canadians did take part in the invasion of Iraq. That is your opinion, your entitled to it. but that is not the piont here is it. the piont is in order for the Iraqi people to recover from this Canada and the rest of the world are going to have to do something to establish security so that the regrowth of the nation can begin. Sticking our heads in the sand and pionting out all the US mistakes are making is not the answer. what really matters here are the Iraqi people. Not who's mess it is. We already know who's mess it is, lets stop are childish behavior and just do something about it.

What is stopping them from putting down thier arms right now, and concentrating on building something. anything. Israel is not stopping them from doing that. Have you been to Israel, i ask because at most Israelis borders you look into the Israelis side and see green you see life, you see infra structure you get the piont. view into the the other borders all you see is sand, sure a few houses but mostly sand. My piont is if the Israelis can turn a barren hell hole into a green area, why can't the rest of the arabs. Your joking right, palestianians bomb Israel, Israel takes measures to protect itself and it now becomes Israel's fault that the Palestinians are in the boat they are in. Your quote below even states that Israel takes measures to lessen the effects on the palestianians and they repay Israel with a new wave of violence. Your right it is Israel's fault, and they should be made to take down the wall, they should learn how to die like good jews did in WW II, They should be made to pay them dirty little bastar*s. Someone once said every man is responsiable for his own actions. And for every action there is a reaction. It's time for both sides to take responsibility for thier actions.

I agree, however that does not mean you don't take every threat serious. i mean were are not talking about a couple of AK's here, but a Nuk wpn that could cripple Israel enough so that other Arab nations or even Iran could easily finish the job. What about Sadam, You can not tell me that he did not know what the US or Coalition forces could do militarily. perhaps maybe the first gulf war, but the second. He had to have known that he would be overthrown. This is a man that allowed his SON's to die in combat...what else could he sacrafice perhaps his own life...making me think that nothing else matter except his own life, (or he to would have died in combat next to his sons or during capture ) and he or others like him think they will survive any attack.

A leader of a nation does not go on International TV and make threats that they have no intention of carring out. that works both ways Irans leadership has been quoting they will use Nuk wpns against Israel and Israel has said they will not permit Iran to have Nuk wpns. They are not threats but promises. Here is another is another link.My Webpage This new wpn system actually works unlike the one the US has been developing and surprise who is backing it all the US. I'd also like to piont out Israel naval capabilities.

Thats not true, it is not becoming more popular with foreign muslims it's actually estamated that they make up only 10 % of the insurgents. Number of total insurgents are est at between 10,000 and 30,000. Compare those numbers to ones that are jioning the Iraq military, police,etc and you'll find that more Iraqi's are jioning the US coalitlition side than the insurgents side. What message does that send. Even if they below estamates were off lets say by 100 % that leaves 100,000 insurgents out of 27 million. I'm not getting the same message as you are, this shows me that a majority of Iraqis want peace, and the either don't want to fight or want the changes that the US is offering. On returning from a recent tour of Iraq, U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman, a Democrat, wrote in the Wall Street Journal: "It is a war between 27 million and 10,000; 27 million Iraqis who want to live lives of freedom, opportunity and prosperity and roughly 10,000 terrorists who are either Saddam revanchists, Iraqi Islamic extremists or al-Qaida foreign fighters who know their wretched causes will be set back if Iraq becomes free and modern." for insurg My Webpage My Webpage You don't get it ...while the liberals were telling you and the rest of Canadians that Canada would have nothing to do with this operation, they ordered the navy our navy into the gulf to assist US naval forces involved in the Invasion of Iraq. They were not sitting in some port awaiting for things to change they were in the gulf assisting US naval forces. So Cretien never keep his word. He lied to all of us. And when the US asked for more, he agreed to send troops into Afgan to free up US forces there. Again it's not about the US it's about the people in Iraq and rebuilding thier country. Why Canadians soldiers because this is what we do...it is what our military is good at. Would oil make any difference, would it justify our actions, would it justify our inactions ...it's not about oil but people.

Your correct, there were no WMD, nor were there any terrorists links, However your not suggesting that the world would have been a better place with Sadams regime still in power. Sensible how, by telling Canadians that Canada would not take part in the Iraq invasion that it would not support this operation. Then order it's navy into the gulf to give assistance to the US fleet involved in the invasion. or by ordering it's martime surveilance aircraft to do the same. The liberals knew well ahead of time that Iraq would not go so good and any military force sent over there would suffer alot of causulties "something that is not voter freindly" NATO threw Canada a bone and the liberals jumped all over it sending troops into Afgan the safer of the two. There is no reason now to not get involved more than we are already,regardless of why the war was started thats a mout piont now. the Iraq solution requires more countries to get involved to establish the security Iraq needs so that the rebuilding process can begin. So that the Iraqis can get on with there lifes. That would be the sensiable thing to do .

Like they have a choice, Israel shares borders. I don't think that is true in most of the cases, they just remove thousands of jewish citizens that had settled in those occupied areas. A move that was a major issue with the palestians leadership. One that in my opinion was a step in the right direction. But that was not enough for the palestians they continue to bomb and attack Israelis. It goes to show that no matter what the Israelis goverment does or gives them they will not stop fighting until they push them into the sea... Building the wall, was the first step. completing the wall and then ban them entrance into Israel. It has already proven to limit the amount of attacks. Then forgetting that they are even there. Perhaps when there forced to do something else other than kill Israelis they might even consider doing something with what they already have.