B. Max

So what.

Jackpot, the french connection. http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover090605.htm

What they are going to get is civil war should any attempt be made to steal alberta's resources or the assets of the oil companies.

There is no lie to big to tell for the left, and no bodies they won't walk over in their hateful tizzy fits against the president. They are the lowest of the low and shame on the hysterical media and those who fell for their uniformed reports. In fact, the primary responsibility for the disaster response lies with New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco and other local officials. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2.../4/151327.shtml

The fact is these scenarios are quite likely. I can't help it if Quebec separatists want to live in denial. I certainly don't believe people who understand the realities of session should not warn people of the consequences. Think about it: Canadians cannot agreed on a constitution how could they possibility agree on terms of secession? The situation will be aggravated further if Quebec declares a UDI: that is an act of war that basically says "if Canada tries to enforce its sovereignty in any territory that we have unilaterally decide belongs to us then we will respond with force'. How can there be any fair resolution in that situation? It is time separatists grew up an realized that breaking up a country is not a parlour game: it is serious business with serious consequences. A family cannot reolve it problems if one or two members constantly pick up a gun and threaten to use it on everyone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So far you are the only one making threats. Albertans will rise to any occasion they have to.

Because we are a country that harbors and caters to islamic terrorists. Who export that terror around the world. We are in fact a terrorists aircraft carrier.

I suggest you get together with Hugo sometime. You can plan the overthrow of the gov't and establishment of anarcho-capitalist paradise together. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Perhaps they'll make a spot for you in the tax museum that we can visit. After you are relegated to histories trash heap of failed socialist experiments. http://www.tax.org/Museum/default.htm

If Alberta or Quebec tries tries to seperate then economic chaos will follow and everyone loses. You could make the case that Albertans will lose less than the rest of the country, however, Albertans will still end up further behind because the uncertainity will drive interest rates up and the Canadian dollar down. That, of course, assumes that you don't end in a open war with native groups that will likely claim most of Alberta's oil fields for themselves. You make the mistake that all the nonsense that destroyed the country in the first place will continue as usual. It will not. The indians can claim what they want. That will not be the problem. The problem will be containing those who will want to get even for nonsense so far, and that won't be any small minority.

The current level of taxation exists because democratically elected gov'ts decided that was necessary. You may be a minority that disagrees with the priorities set by the majorities, however, that does not make the current gov't taxation levels the equivalent 'theft'. Taxes are taxes - period: love them or hate them they are a price we have to pay for a civilized society. Furthermore, using rhetoric that like that simply undermines any arguments you may have for lower taxes. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nonsense. The theft and plunder of that which represents the expenditure of ones life energy is nothing short of slavery by a different name.

Chaos everywhere. Oil brings in money but the real jobs are created in other industries that need private sector investment that would be put on hold or go to other countries until the mess is sorted out. The Canadian dollar would collapse in value and interest rates would skyrocket (who would loan any money to the Canadian govt, federal or provincial, in such circumstances). Everyone's standard of living would drop dramatically. In any case, you are worried about nothing. A new NEP is not going to happen. Martin is not the brightest blub in Ottawa but he is not an idiot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is what will lead to civil war. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/09...1203061-cp.html and you're right, martin is not the brightest bulb in the package and being surround by other not so bright bulbs is what makes the situation dangerous.

Sorry, legally speaking Alberta is part of Canada. Any session must be negotiated. A UDI is a recipe for chaos and civil war. In all cases, the economic disruptions will be huge and it would take Alberta decades to make up the ground it losses dues to the economic chaos. In any case, we are only talking about Alberta here since it only in Alberta where the oil money has made some people blind to the consequences of their actions (very much like a drunk who thinks he is superman). So Alberta would be negotiating with BC and Saskatchewan as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Chaos in the east perhaps. However BC and sask. both have sizable oil reserves. Do you think they will hang around to be picked clean after AB. leaves. Not a chance. They will see their best interests lying with alberta. Negotciating a republic in the west i wouldn't rule out.

This is where you are deluding yourself - breaking up a country like Canada is an incredibly complex thing to do and extremely dangerous because there are no binding laws or courts that the parties can turn to in the case of disagreement. Theoretical calculations about how much Alberta would 'save' if it left federation are insignifcant compared to the real economic losses caused by higher interest rates and the general economic chaos that would follow.I also find it laughable that people who advocate seperation think that a fair negotiated settlement is possible in the wake of a narrowly passing referendum on seperation when the same parties cannot agree on changes the constitution in the current, relatively calm environment. In other words, if we can't agree now on a new consitution then we will definately not be able to agree to negotiated break up of the country. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is little or nothing to negotciate. The fact is, this will be the one instance where the east will have nothing to say about it. We could'nt give a rats behind what the east thinks or doesn't agree to. Here's the push that will do it. http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46120

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/klaus090105.htm Currently there is a strong sentiment in the West to get out from under Eastern Canada’s thumb. A poll conducted by The Western Standard has found that over 1/3 of all Westerners are open to the idea of separating from Canada, while close to 50% of Albertans are in favor. All it will take is a few more outrages on the part of the buffoons running this country to take this sentiment beyond 50%. Unlike Quebec, the West has nothing to lose by separating and plenty to gain.

That would depend. Driving one of the those big rollers used to lay asphalt would not make you an authority on the usefulness of public transport. I have read many things over the years that talk about how public transportation works and how it affects city development. I also have experience with countries that have a decent public transportation system (i.e. Japan). A car is a luxery in Japan and drivers pay for the privilege of using one. North american drivers do not pay anywhere near the same costs in terms of gas and road tolls. These higher costs make mass transit economical. For example, it is actually cheaper to take a train from Osaka airport than to take a car. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Although i also spent a number of years in construction industry, I've never driven an asphalt roller. Japan is not a model country for this topic. Of course, unless you think people should be hauled around in government owned human cattleliners. Most people in this country do not. We believe in individual rights and freedoms and mobility, at least in the west. The east is a different matter.

Then you understand nothing about how the transportation system works. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've worked in the transportation system for thirty years. I expect i know a lot about it than you or maybe even anyone on this board.

A bus strike is a temporary situation where people found alternatives based on the expectation that the buses would start running again soon. Eliminate public transit and you would see society reorganize itself around the new reality and you would see that Kimmy's prediction would come true. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I doubt it.

and even that's not true. Some years ago edmonton had a bus strike and the traffic never moved so well with the buses off the street and out of the road.

You could not make 'your' money if the gov't did not ensure that you have a stable, functioning social space in which you can work. Therefore, you have an obligation to pay your share of the costs of maintaining that stable social space. It is reasonable to question whether everything that the gov't does is necessary and whether taxes are too high, however, it is unreasonable to suggest that you have an absolute right to keep every cent that you think you earn. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course no one has suggested that. However that is a far cry from what is actually happening in this country, and nothing, no matter how hard you try can justify outright theft even if it is the government doing the stealing.

Per Ontarian? Each Ontarian does not contribute $1856.May I make a point here, a cause for reflection. "Ontario" does not pay taxes. People in Ontario do. There are some people in Ontario who a lot of taxes, and some people in Ontario who pay few taxes. The transfers we are talking about do not occur between Ontario, Alberta and other provinces. The transfers occur between different people in Canada. In many cases, the transfer occurs within Ontario. It happens that there are many people with high incomes in Alberta and Ontario and so as a result, those provinces appear to be "net" contributors. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is correct. It comes right off your paycheque and other various taxes. These are monies that should stay right in your own pocket.

Uh...the point of the poll question's phrasing was to elicit a high positive response rate. Do you know anything about polls? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know that once someone is ready to consider secession, and when all the facts are considered it's pretty much a done deal. How do i know that, because i've been there.

Of course that's not what i said. Taxes by themselves don't represent elitist thinking. I would agree, you should be able to opt out. Those people paid taxes too, how do you know it was your money. There are many private security firms in Canada that my condo association could hire to locally secure our safety and property better than can the police. The state is arrogantly arguing it can spend my money better than I can. How elitist. I want to opt out. Maybe you would call it elitist thinking but i would not. Many places do hire private security. That's no arguement. At one time those roads and services were paid for by the people who would move in there though higher taxes. Most places now require the cost be added on to the price of the land. I am not really interested in paying to secure Afghanistan. The state is arrogantly arguing it can spend my money better than I can. How elitist. I want to opt out. The military is one of the jobs of government. For the security of this country. A job they have not been doing very well. In stead they've been wasting money on things that are none of their business, and running a welfare state. If, in the name of liberty and freedom, we are going to allow people to opt out of health care, then we should be allowed to opt out of ALL government programs. After all, individuals know how to spend their money better than does the government. Should this happen, government will likely become ineffective and anarcho-capitalism may well ensue. Hugo has generated hundreds of posts demonstrating that all social needs can be met without government. If you disagree, then you are the socialists. Nonsense. You are the socialist and an excellent example of the slogan, tax me i'm canadian. Just the kind of sheepeople the elitists of big government like to see. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no difficulty reading. The 23 billion is from an over spending government, as the Ont. chamber reported last week. The comparison is the per capita of extortion. One of albertas demands for staying in the country is the stripping of the feds of the power to tax.

while it lies. http://www.recorder.ca/cp/National/050901/n0901141A.html McGuinty claims Ontario pays more than its fair share on a per capita basis to Ottawa - and bears a $23-billion gap between what the province pays Ottawa and what it gets back to help fund federal services. http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Cor...31/1194817.html According to Tracy Balash, spokesperson for Alberta Finance, Alberta receives about $16.3 billion back in federal government services and programs. That means the net contribution Albertans generously share with the ROC comes to $9.3 billion -- or $2,914 per Albertan -- by far the largest per capita transfer payments of any other province. Next in line is Ontario at $1,856 per Ontarian. Where i would differ with this article is in the choosing of words. Sharing is something you do, not something done to you. The proper definition would theft.

That is the thinking of elitists extortionist big government. They know better how to spend your money. Yeah right. According to information in the topic heading my calculations make it a 7.4% drop in the standard of living.

This is crap. There are a few individuals associated with the governing party that funnelled money into their own pockets or to the liberal party. But the amounts we are talking about is small change compared to the huge sums of money US politicians pocket for their election campaigns (often sacrificing the interests of thie consituants in order to appease some well financed lobby group). A politician that sells their vote to a lobby group is among the most corrupt politican in the world and the US legislature is full of them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That would be the libranos 100%. They've made careers out of catering to quebec and the GTA at the expense of the rest of the country and mainly alberta.