Newfie Canadian

Some, yes. Typical, and that's the problem for the CPC. Sure they can. They can tank in the next election. There is some speculation in the local media and phone in show that some Atlantic Canadian MPs pushed for this course of action to take some pressure off of them in regards to the Accord. Hard to say.

Looks like they did okay. Second straight majority, though they lost some ministers and their majority was weakened. Last time, the BC Liberals had 77/79 seats, with the BC NDP having 2/79. Now the Liberals have 46/79 and the NDP has 33/79. He won, but it had a price.

I can't see how Harper is in any better shape now than he was last year or the year before. Political leaders don't traditionally last long if their party doesn't improve, and keep improving. By extension though, you could say the CPC will be losers as well.

What's hurts the CPC though, is that besides being all the things I've already mentioned, she is credited with helping to unite the CA and the PC parties, she has been a (for some) welcomed moderate voice to help offset the perceived rough edge of the CPC and she's from vote rich Ontario. This is bad for the CPC on so many levels.

Well it looks like Harper, realizing he doesn't have the numbers after Stronach's defection, has decided to support the main budget vote but not the NDP deal part of it, which is a separate ammendment. Tories to support budget but try to topple gov't

I like your optimism eureka. That's an interesting point you make August. I'm not sure how many that would be though. I would have thought that most would have jumped to the CPC, just to give them a bigger chance at forming government, despite the obvious philosophical diferences. Even during the polls, the NDP didn't rise that much, if I recall correctly. But you're right. Anyone who may have thought of leaving the Liberals now, no matter where they may have been heading, are probably rethinking the idea.

I find this highly unlikely. Here in NL, there are 2 CPC MPs, Norm Doyle and Loyola Hearn, representing St. John's East and St. John's West respectively.. They have been raked over the coals something fierce over this vote. The budget contains the legislation for the Atlantic Accord money, and just about everybody and their dogs are saying vote for the budget. They even had Tony Valeri on the Open Line show today to put some pressure on them. Premier Williams wants them to vote for it. They're taking heat for sure.

I have heard they were a couple. I can't remember if it was Duffy (CTVNews) or Newman (CBCNewsworld) that I heard it from. From CBC.ca

All politicians are opportunistic. Opportunism is a vehicle for better perception, for sure. Harper pounced on revelations from Gomery in an opportunistic way to try to bring down the Liberals. PM PM will be the opportunist by using the Stronach defection to his advantage in the perception department. Layton used the opportunity of the budget vote to get what he wanted from Martin. Duceppe used the CPC to try to bring down the Liberals because they are riding high in Quebec.

I read about half the posts in this thread but not all, so if I'm stating something that has already been said, sorry. It is, as I've said before all about perception, and it's not looking good for the CPC. Here you have a young, intelligent, successful woman who jumped the CPC ship, which arguably was on it's way to forming the next government, for the Liberal ship, which is arguably headed for the Laurentian Trench. People, ordinary people, are looking at this and wondering what's going on inside the CPC, if someone like Stronach is wililng to leave. They are filling in the blanks for themselves, and I wager they are not painting a pretty picture of the CPC, whether it's right or wrong I don't know. And now PM PM, with smile from ear to ear, looks like a leader with whom Stronach, a young, intelligent, successful woman, can be comfortable with. Perception, perception, perception.

Ah Digby. Thank you. Nova Scotian's, if you don't mind my saying, are only a step from being Newfoundlanders. The same is true here. DFO cutbacks, mismanagement and apathy have helped to ruin the fishery, to say nothing of the lunacy coming from the politicians and bureaucrats in Ottawa. But I don't think the US would do any better. The only way to curtail overfishing for example, is to assert custodial management over the nose and tail of the Grand Banks. In the recent fisheries conference in St. John's, an American offiacial said they were against such actions, which they say violates international law (I'm not kidding, he said that). The crab hasn't been a saviour. There is a dispute ongoing that has some fishermen taking their crab to NS, while others aren't even fishing. That however is a dispute with the provincial government. All I'm saying is, I don't know if being part of the US would be better. I personally don't think so.

With the exception of 9 months, Digby, I've lived in NL for all of my 31 years. I can say, with all respect to your position, that the conservatism that now dominates politics and many attitudes in the US would not be beneficial in any way to the Maritimes.

I agree. The only reason for their cooperation now is to down the government. Beyond that, there is next to zero reason for them to form a coalition.

Some of the criticisms of Harper that I have seen are held over from some of the criticisms of the Reform/Alliance party, which you must admit made some mistakes and some ill advised and ill timed mental lapses. Again, I don't think that's right, I don't think Harper is the boogeyman that some people make him out to be. Perhaps his personal dullness is why these holdover attributes are given to Harper. I'm not sure I would vote for Peter McKay. He has a lot of baggage from the PC leadership debacle, I confess, before that I thought very highly of him.

I meant the understaffed, underfunded, misunderstood, ignored and ultimately failed attempt to solve their problems through a peacekeeping force. In other words, the fact that Martin had to be cajoled into maybe sending some troops to Dafur by Kilgour, could indicate that he is unable or unwilling to support the effort like it needs to be supported. If that happens, the same thing could happen their that happened in Rwanda in 1994. Again, Rwanda 0f 1994 proved this incorrect, if the will and support isn't there.

The more polls that come out the more I think Harper's days are numbered. Do I agree with it? Not really. The poll results are distressing. The poll was released on the 6th, but when was it taken? Before Guité's most recent testimony, I would assume, so the next poll may be different.

I agree with you IMR. Patriotism and civic duty should come hand in hand with sensibility. We wouldn't go to work for less than top dollar for our profession and cry bloody foul for less than pristine and safe working conditions. While military service in inherently dangerous, the danger is lessened and more acceptable with proper funding and equipment.

Well, I'll go against the current on this one. While I'm all for trying to help Dafur, this isn't the way. In regards to money, that alone isn't going to solve the problem, That leaves military intervention. Martin had to be dealt into this position by Kilgour, which means Martin probably isn't too fussy about sending Canadian Forces into the region. Add to that, the international community as a whole doesn't seem to be rushing into the region. Do you know what we get when the international community doesn't put it's heart and head into something like this? We get another Rwanda.

It would never work, at least not with municipalities around here. I would favour a sharing of power with entities akin to US state counties, that wouldn't be too big or too small.

I suspect Martin will only resign if the Liberals erley ttrounced in the next election. He'll never resign as PM, but he will resign as party leader.

Well Melanie, it do seem to be a time when minority government will be the norm rather than the exception. If I may answer your question Pateris, in regards to Harper, I personally can't think of one politician active in politics right now that I trust or believe in or have faith in. There are a few that I would vote for, but I wouldn't give them the keys to my house or car. The problem in the government right now isn't just the politicians, but the bureaucracy as well, and unfortunately, that doesn't change with an election. So, add the politicians with the bureaucrats and how can you have much faith in anything plitical?

Yes Maybe Partly We don't know any better, or now we just accept it as a part of life. It's like the old saying, "All I've got to do is die and pay taxes."

Politics, as I've said before, is all about perception. What the electorate perceives to be true or better, or worse. The Liberals, through their politics and slight of hand, are perceived to be a government type party. Perhaps more so however, it's not the perception of the Liberal party as much as it's about the perception of the CPC. They are perceived as a party with hidden agendas and severe right wing policies and the like. And it is a perception they haven't yet been able to shed according to a new poll (which I've linked to in another thread). Unless or until the CPC can shed those perceptions, particularly in Ontario, the Liberals will hold onto government.

Well, it looks like the NDP will be the deciding factor in the next government, if the current polls hold. Neither the CPC nor the Liberals will form any type of coalition with the Bloc, and they won't form a coalition with each other. That leaves the NDP. In my opinion, again if the current polls hold, the next government will be a Liberal/NDP one. I can't see the NDP and the CPC getting together.

Good call August. A new poll out suggests that Harper still has work to do to shed the "hidden agenda" problem that plagued the CPC in the last election. Cdns. suspicious of a Tory hidden agenda: poll