CANADIEN

I will be the first to admit that a post as loong as mine qualifies as a rant. That's probably why you missed the following paragraph: Feel free to explain at any point in time how this amounts to me claiming that the parent's freedom of religion is being violated.

Incredible, the amount of non-sense offered of this thread. The Supreme Court had no business issuing a judgment in this case - Excuse me? The parents went to court claiming that the curriculum violated their freedom of religion. A right protected in the Constitution. The role of the Court is to interpret the Constituion, that is in this case to determine if the mandatory nature of the curriculum violates the Constitution.. The Court had three options, to refuse to hear the case (which meant that the decision of Quebec's Superior Court and Court of Appeal that the parents' rights are not violated by the curriculum would stand), to decide that the curriculum violated the parents' rights, or to decide the curriculm does not violate parents' rights. To rule that they could not hear the case because education is a provincial matter would have been absurd; to rUle that the parents could obtain an exemption on he ground that they (the Court) cannot interfere in provincial matters would be the height of judicial stupidity - if it were true that this issue was not the perview of the SCC (it's not true), the only choice left for the Court would have been to refuse to hear the case and let the Court of Appeal decision stand. This judgement is the result of an activist court - Excuse me while I laugh. All the time, we hear the argument that the Court should not be "making laws" and should entirely defer to the lawmakers. Guess what? This is WHAT THEY DID. The role of the Supreme Court is to protect minorities - Actually, the role of the Supreme Court is to interpret the Law, including the Constitution. They do not get to ignore the Constitution or interpret it in ways contrary to facts and logic just because some people stand up and shout "We are a minority and our rights are violated". Freedom of religion is being violated - The argument has been presented, and rejected, in three different courthouses. Freedom of (or from) religion is not shield against hearing facts about the eistence of other fiaths and their tenets. As the Supreme Court (and other courts before it) stated, NOTHING in the program forces students to embrace or rejct one or any religion. Nothing prevents parents from teaching one religion or no religion at all, or that any or all religions are bad. The rights of the parent's to teach what they want to their children is being violated.- Interestingly enough, this was not part of the legal argument submitted by the parents. That being said, the argument that this curriculum negates parents' rights to teach their children what they want is non-sense. Once again, nothing prevents parents from teaching any or no religion. What next - should we exempt children of Holocaust deniers from history classes? If parents are so afraid that their child will convert to let,s say Islam or become atheist just because the word Islam is pronounced in class, they should consider home schooling. And last and not least, the Supreme Court decides "Do as we say" - The absurdity of this statement and its distortion of basic facts is borderline unbelievable. The decision that there would be a new curriculum and that it would be mandatory was made by the Quebec Government. The decision not to exempt the plaintiffs' children from the course was made by the school board. What the Courts, at all level, did was to hear the request to declare those decisions unconstitutional and to determine they were not.

Don't you see? Union are bad, civil servants are bad , subways are good, LRTs err I mean streetcars are evil. Never mind facts.

Or we could call it: BLT: Build Light Transit WIMP: Where Is the money for the Project RTS: Real Transit Solution SALT; Subway and Light transit

For me, it's not just a matter of money. Toronto cannot afford the cost of added gridlock and congestion on a barely coping transit system. We need to make investment, massive investment, in expending our transit system. Investing though is not wasting. We need both subways and LRTs, and the notion that it must be subways or else is a recipe for either putting more money than we need, or ending up with less than what we need.

What is unbelievable is that the Fordites keep shooting "We need world-class transist" will ignoring what is being done in other world-class cities. I also find it interesting that, even with the money diverted by moving the Eglinton LRT where it belongs (above ground outside of the core), with land sales and risky projections regarding development fees and taxes resulting from possible growth on the Sheppard corridor, there is still not enough money for extending the Sheppard subway all the way to the Scarborough Town Centre. Either there will be private sector funding after all (yeah right), new sources of tax revenues will have to be raised (anathema to most Fordites), or the subway line will stop somewhere around Brimley and Sheppard.

Mr. Toews should go one step further. Any household with children should be equipped with a camera system that the police should access to ensure that children are not molested. Starting with the PM's house (NOTE: I DO NOT MEAN TO IMPLY WRONGDOING BY THE PM). No warrant would be needed. Of course, failure by Mr. Toews to implement such a measure would prove he sides with dirty dads and uncles against children, right?

More changes (and they are the last), but they are major: - have the Queen-Ex subway run up Pape then to Don Mills and Eglinton; up from there, adedicated bus line should be enough for a long time to come - no extension of the Yonge line into York Region; GO Trains should be the way to bring people from there to dontown Toronto,GO Trains should be faster, though (electrified?) and with more frequency, along with York Regions bus lines or LRT to the two existing subway lines - extend the Bloor-Danforth line to Dixie only, to connect to Mississauga Transit - scrap the Yonge Express line: construction of the new subway north to Eglinton-Don Mills will divert traffic from Yonge, as well as not expending the Yonge line north - instead of a Yonge express subway, build at a later time (I am thinking starting in 2030-2035) a Avenue-Road Bay LRT above ground from Eglinton down to the Dupont railway corridor, then underground to Bay street south to Queen or King); in the meantime, dedicated bus lane on Avenue Rd. - relocate the Bathurst LRT to Dufferin, still underground, move ahead it by about five years - replace the Mount Pleasent-Jarvis LRT with a Bayview LRT (if possible above ground) or dedeciated bus line By 2050, we would have added to the network: GO TRAINS: - increase frequency, faster train (electrified), increased connections with TTC network, new terminal station at Bathrust/Front (trains from the west) and possibly Yonge Street (Lakeshore) SUBWAYS: - Don Mills-Queen-Ex line: Don Mills/Eglinton to Pape and Queen, to about Queen/Spadina, then south to Bathurst/Front, the EX, then up to Dundas West or Landsdowne - Yonge University line: the extension being built to Highway 7 - Sheppard line; to Downsview and Scarborough Town Centre - Bloor-Danforth line: extension to Dixie and Kinsgton Road SUBWAY, LRT or LRV: - Lakeshore-Downtown line: current Queen streetcar route, underground from Roncesvalles east (all the way if subway), across to Adelaide west of Bathurst and ending at Yonge street TRANSCITY RAPID TRANSIT (bus, train or LRT): - either two lines (north and east) using train and hydro corridors, or one line along the 401, linking Mississauga/Brampton to Oshawa LRT: - Crosstown: the Eglinton line being currently built, and expended above ground east to the Airport and west to UTScarborough and Kingston Road - Finch-WestTown: The Finch LRT vote last week, then above ground south to sherway Gardens - Jane-Black Creek: above ground from Steeles West station on jane then Black Creek Drive, then above or underground in the railway corridor to Dundas West or Landsdowne station - Dufferin: underground from Eglinton to Queen - Avenue-Bay: above ground from Eglinton to the rail tracks, then underderground to Bay down to Queen or King - Victoria Park: above ground Sheppard to Victoria Park subway station - McCowan; above ground, Steeles to Crosstown line - Malvern: above ground, McCowan/Finch to Neilson down to Crosstown line - Meadowvale-Kingston: above ground from the Zoo to Kingston Road/Eglinton ABOVE GROUND LRT or bus lane: - Bayview-Jarvis: from Bayview subway station to train corridor, then Mount Pleasent to Jarvis and Queen

My idea behind the East and north TransCity lines is to ease transit between the east and west end of the GTA. Transitting from the Durham Region to the Airport and Peel, or the York Region, is near impossible unless you have hours (many of them) on your hand. Frequency would be 15-20 minutes. BRT lines are a good idea; could even then consider another route, that would use busways at the 401. I believe that eventually the subway should reach well into Mississauga. Failing that, extending the subway west from Kipling (to Dixie?) with connection to Misssissauga transit would do the trick. And none of my plans include going as far north as Major Mac.

The Metrolinx report talks about a terminal station at Bathurst and Front for some of the GO lines, with the Lakeshore trains being diverted through a tunnel at a station at the foot of York. I am afraid I mistook the Cherry satellite station for a eeast end terminal. So, it's gone, and then there is no need for a LRT from Bathurst to Cherry. There is still the issue of linking the Bathurst terminal and the Ex to downtown. The Metrolinx report calls for a subway line starting from Woodbine (instead of Main in my proposal), then go down to Kingston road instead of the train corridor (I don't have a major issue with that route), then on Queen to downtown. From there, it would turn south to the Bathrust terminal and the Ex. That subway could at a later stage be continued to Dundas West (preferably under the rail corridor, I think a Roncesvalles route would be more trouble that it's worth). Construction from Woodbine to Lakeshore could take place in phase 2 (2015-2020), with the extension to Dundas West occuring in phase 4 (2025-2030) or in phase 5 (2030-2035). With a subway going down to Bathrust and the Ex, there is no longer a need for my Adelaide LRT. Billy Bishop airport could be linked to the Queen-Ex and Union subways at the Bathurst and Union station, by bus (or minibus), and this could be done now (Porter already operates a free shuttle between BBAirport and Front Street, but the growing usage of the Airport means it would be enough before long). If needed, it could be replaced later by a Billy Bishop LRT, aboveground to Front then undergroud to Union (and St. Lawrence Market and the Distillery?). What happens with then my idea of a Queen Street subway going all the way to south Etobicoke then? Two possibilities: undergound LRT (or LRV, if rails are an issue west of Roncesvalles) starting at Adelaide and Yonge, then reaching Queen west of Bathurst, then using the current route from there. Would be way less expensive than a subway, but my concern is that Lakeshore could not accommodate a separate LRT/LRV. Or we go back to subway, branching out from the Queen Exhibition line. In the first case, I would not change the timeline; with a subway, I would delay the first phase five years (building this at the same time as the two relief lines would be overly prohibitive). And I was talking about Don Mills. My mistake.

(cont`d) PHASE FIVE (started between 2030 AND 2035) Finch-WestTown LRT (extension and renaming of the Finch West LRT): Above ground from Humber College down on Highway 27 to Dixon road, across then across and down off-street to Eglinton/Martin Grove Victoria Park LRT: Above ground from Sheppard line to Bloor-Danforth line TransCity East Rapid Transit: train or above ground LRT Pickering along the 401 to Morningside, then parallel to Morningside and in the Finch Hydro corridor to Finch subway station, stations at connections to main Pickering transit lines, Meadowvale-Kingston LRT, Stouffville GO train Bloor-Danforth subway (extension): westbound to Hurontario PHASE SIX (started between 2035 AND 2040) McCOWAN LRT: above ground from Steeles to Scarborough Town Centre Finch/WestTown LRT (extension): above ground, west on Eglinton, then East Mall, Queensway to Sherway Gardens TransCity North Rapid Transit (first phase): Train or LRT, above ground, from Hurontario-Highway 407 to the Airport to Highway 427 to train corridor south of Highway 407 to Bloor-University line (western line), stops at connections to major Peel and York Regions transit lines and highways, and the Airport PHASE SEVEN (started between 2040 AND 2045) Bathurst LRT: Underground, Eglinton to Bloor Mount-Pleasant-Jarvis LRT: Underground, Eglinton to Queen Malvern LRT: above ground, Finch and McCowan to Neilson down to Military Road TransCity North Rapid Transit (extension): Train or LRT, above ground, eastbound to the Stouffville GO line, south to the TransCity East line, stops at connections to the subway, GO Train, main York Region Transit lines and highways Transcity East Rapit Transit (extension): to Whitby and Oshawa Exhibition-ESplanade LRT (extension): Either above ground (through the rail corridor) or underground to Dundas West or Landsdowne subway station

(cont'd) PHASE THREE (started between 2020 and 2025) Jane-Black Creek LRT: Above ground from Steeles West subway station to Wilson, then down Black Creek Drive, either above ground in the train corridor or underground under Weston to St. Clair, then above or underground to Dundas West subway station Yonge-University subway (extension): to Highway 7 Eglinton-Scarborough LRT (extension): eastbound above ground to Markham/Ellesmere, then to UToronto Scarborough Sheppard subway (extension): westbound to Downsview, eastbound to Scarborough Town Centre GO Train: Satellite station near Bathurst and Front Exhibition-Esplanade LRT: Above ground from Exhibition Place to near Fort York, then underground to Go Train Bathurst satellite station, Skydome, Union Station (south end), under Esplanade to Cherry Street-Distillery and up to Queen-East End Subway at Broadview PHASE FOUR (started between 2025 AND 2030) Yonge-University subway (extension): Highway 7, closing the loop East Scarborough LRT: From the Zoo, above ground, down Meadowvale and Kingston road to Kingston Rd.-Eglinton Eglinton-Scarborough LRT (extension): eastbound to Meadowvale Bloor-Danforth subway (extension): westbound to Queensway-Dixie, eastbound to Kingston Rd.-Eglinton Queen-East end subway (extension): westbound to Humber Loop Adelaide LRT: Above ground from Billy Bishop Airport to GO Train Bathurst then underground to Spadina/Adelaide and east to Yonge subway line GO Train: Satellite station at Cherry Street

I gave up on GoogleMaps. Here's my thoughts, with additions, and modifications, adopting/adapting some on your idea. I have no expectaion that it is financial sound, and frankly it's just musing. Mix of subway and LRT at first, mostly LRT later as the technology improves further. Broken down by period of five years. some of the projects will be incremental. Note that I have Sheppard as a subway through and through. If it's subway half of the way, make it subway through. After an early extension to victoria though, there will be some wait. Here we go: PHASE ONE (under construction or started in 2012-2013) Yonge-Spadina-University subway (extension): Downsview to Highway 7 Finch West LRT: above ground, Humber College to Finch, then to Keele Sheppard subway (extension): to Victoria Park Eglinton Scarborough LRT: ON Eglinton, underground from Black Creek to Leslie, above ground to Kennedy Station, above ground (old Scarborough RT line) to McCowan PHASE TWO (started between 2015 and 2020) Yonge Express subway: From Sheppard station, parallel to Yonge down to Summerhill then across to Bay and down to Queen Street, stops at Eglinton, St. Clair, Bay Street Station, Wellesley, Dundas (if the bus terminal is still there) Downsview LRT: above ground from Finch to Overlea then to Pape, through Leaside Bridge; underground to Queen East-end subway at Gerrard Eglinton-Scarborough LRT (extension): westbound above ground to the Airport Queen-East end subway (phase one): From Dufferin/Queen to Broadview, then north the GO corridor to Main station (note: as a result, Queen streetcar would end at Dufferin, King street car would continue east from Broadview on current Queen streetcar line)

I doubt think they have a legal point. I wish they did.

With a subway on Queen, you don't need a right of way on King.

My likes: - Yonge corridor, although I am thinking express subway there, because of the need to remove pressure on the existing line, and one line only; you would need a connection to the Bloor Danforth line (a foot tunnel from Church to the Yonge-Bloor Station, or from Jarvis to Sherbourne; or a new subway station) - extensions to the Sheppard and Bloor-Danforth subway lines - extension to the Eglinton LRT - proposed LRTs in Scarborough (don't know enough about the width of the street there) - Martin Grove corridor LRT (I would consider running it on the 27 from Woodbine Track north though (not that I am a gambler) What I would change: - Adelaide-Richmond LRT: I see it as a medium-long term project, but most importantly, I would change the route once it gets at Spadina, so it can connect to a sattelite Go station at Bathurst-Front. I still think that aboveground on Richmond Adelaide would work, but I am not wedded to it. If not, why not just have it run under one of the two streets. - Don Mills LRT: start it at Finch or Steeles, run it above ground to the Leaside bridge, from there, either underground to Gerrard (my favorite option), or abovegroud down the Don Valley (it's not that it would disturb much traffic ;-)then to the proposed Cherry Street Go station and underground under the Esplanade to Union Station, the Skydome and the proposed Bathurst Street Go station. I would not go with both routes What is missing: - Finch LRT. It is needed in the Finch West area. Just a long line down the Martin Grove corridor will not be enough, and besides, now that the council is committed to it, let's just do it, otherwise we will get the usual back and forth and discussion and debates and dramas and nothing will ever happen. To Keele, perhaps even Bathurst. East of there, I would rely on north-south lines, so the buses on Finch itself would be less crowded - Bayview LRT (or busway/dedicated line), from Finch to the Sheppard line - Queen Street-East End subway line: what we need to redirect traffic from the Bloor-Danforth line is a subway; LRT is no longer enough, and it should have been done years ago. should go to Roncesvalles, with future possible extension into Etobicoke What I would scrap: - burying the King LRT and the west bound extension of the Richmond-Delaide line past Spadina: with a Queen Street subway, the existing King line above ground should serve the needs for a long time - most definitely the GO tunnel under Bay Street. For more, it just doesn't make any sense. Never tried GoogleMap, but I will see if I can put my thoughts on it.

I still think that what the area slong Queen/King from downtown West towards Etobicoke needs is a subway. First, it should have been done decades ago, the express downtown line coming from the east needs to be a subway. That being said, a LRT going west from Yonge on Richmond/Adelaide would be a good idea in the medium to long term. I say Richmond/Adelaide because the first part (to Spadina) could be at street level, one direction on each street. Would inconvnience drivers, but I would still do it. Make it turn south at Spadina, turn west at FRont to the proposed Bathurst Go satellite station. Then, on to Exhibition. This would replace my proposal for a subway line going to Exhibition then to Dundas West. Apart from not having a subway station at Exhibition (and some possible complicaion with a terminal at Exhibition), I think it would serve the needs better than a subway. AS for the Spadina LRT, I believe that the solution lies not in a tunnel, but in applying a few simple (or perhaps not so simple) solutions. - having the streetlights turn green automatically as the streetcar/LRT approaches. Moving the stops to BEFORE the intersection (right now, they stop at the intersection, then cross it and stops again to pick up passengers) - of course, putting the new vehicles on the line - I also suggest a bus - not a busway, just a bus (even smaller buses), in day time and week-end evenings, from the Bloor line down St. George, then Beverley, Dundas, Spadina, Queen and back up Beverley. These, combinet with a subway stop at Queen/Spadina, would help solve the main problems on Spadina, which IMO have more to do with design than capacity.

Rapid transit in the Finch West corridor is crucial. The Finch West subway station and an LRT stop at Jane will get people go faster FROM Finch West to downtown, but will not relieve the overcrowing ON Finch West. We we build the line to Keele, might as well continue to Don Mills. One problem though, both west eand east of Keele I just don't think Finch is wide enough for an LRT or BRT line. The hydro corridor is tantalizing close, but just outside of what would be considered a reasonable distance from Finch. Darn. Jane LRT is a particular beast. First, I would suggest a BRT or a dedicated busl line, but LRT would work tooo... Problem in bothe cases is, the street is just too darn narrow south of Wilson, and tunnelling all the way from there to Bloor just doesn't make sense money-wise. So what to do? I still believe we should be tunneling from wilson to Black Creek Drive. Then... Black Crrek Drive (!) then the train corridor to either Dundas West or lansdowne station (!) I know, I know, nobody lives there, but the Drive can accommodate LRTs or BRTs, unlike Jane. It would serve the need of people who just want to get south fast, and relieve enough pressure on Jane to make the bus ride bearable. It may still have to go underground south of Dupont, but that's sure better than all the way from Wilson. Stops on a Jane-Black Creek line, south of 401: - Maple Leaf -Lawrence West - Thretaway - Eglinton - Rogers - St. Clair _Dupont - dundas West (or Landsdowne; I mention Landsdowne because Bloor West could become very crowded with being the terminal of a new subway line, plus the site (through connection with the GO platform, GO trains and the Airport train) and two streetcars and two buses)

I do not see the need for a subway for quite a while on Queen Street west of the downtown core, as improved LRT service on Colege, Dundas, Queen and King should handle the traffic. Plus, I don't see that area as one of major population growth over the next few decades. The only way I can think of a subway there would be as a way of linking the lakeshore-South Etobicoke area to downtown. Even then, I see it as a third-generation thing. Line would go under Queen with the following stations; - Jarvis Street, - Queen Street - City Hall - Osgoode - Spadina South - a station at Bathurst/Queen - Peel Street - Jamieson - Roncesvalles Roncesvalles could be the terminal for the Queensway LRT, or we could continue the subway to stations at South Kingsway and Humber Loop, and later under Lakeshore Blvd. to Humber College. (cont`d)

Downtown: Queen street is a better choice than Adelaide or Richmond because it would link to the existing subway at Queen and Osgoode stations (unless you build underground foot connection between the two (three) lines. The first part of that line to be built, and that should be part of the next round of transit building, should be the one coming from the east (my Downtown South line). The tunnels and the the stations could be built in such a way that it would possible (either right then or later) to have two lines running in parralel (should be standard on all future lines). AS I mentioned, the line would end up (in the first stage) at a Bathurst south station, which would be at the site of the new Go satellite station envisioned in the Union 2031 report. From there, I see more mid-term potential in going from Bathurst south to Dundas West with stops at: - Exhibition Place (could be the terminal in the first extension) - King West (at Dufferin) - Peel Street (at Queen-Dufferin) - College West (near Lansdowne) - Dundas West An alternate route could see the line going up Roncesvalles (wih stations at Jamieson, Roncesvalles/Queen and Howard park), but the hassle of building and having stations on Roncesvalles does not make it worthwile. (con't)

I think that the proposal included in Metrolinx Union 2031 report is more practical. A sattelite station at Bathurst (could be the terminal for the the Georgetown, Milton and Bradford trains) and Cherry Street (possible terminal for the Richmond Hill and Stoufville lines). In both cases, a link to rapid transist would be needed.

I believe that a Don Mills LRT could go surface all the down Don Mills, then Overlea and over the Valley to Pape (one problem with tunnelling before there is that you would nned to dig pretty deep to get under the Valley). Once south of the valley, tunelling under pape is the only sensible solution. Stops on the route: (going south from Finch): - Oriole Park - Don Mills Subway - York Mills - Seneca College - Lawrence - Eglinton - Ontario Science Centre - Don Mills/Overlea - East York Town Centre - O`Connor (or Cosburn) - Pape Station - Gerrard Square I would put the final stop at Gerrard Square to have it connect to a subway line (I call it the Downtown South Line, sounds better than Downtown Relief Line) that could both catchthe traffic coming from the Don Mills LRT and divert traffick from the Bloor Danforth Line and the Yonge-Bloor bottleneck. The subway line would go from the Main Étreet subway station south to the rail corridor to near Queen and Broadview, then two possibilities: on Queen Street to Osgoode Station or to the Esplanade and Union Station. In both cases the final stop would be in the Bathrust-Front area (one of the scenarios in Metrolinx' Union 2031 plan calls for satellite train stations at Bathurst and Cherry Street). Stations: - Main Street - Gerard Square (Queen Street Route) - Braodview South - Parliament - Jarvis - Queen Street - City Hall (would connect to the Express Yonge-Bay line) - Osgoode - Spadina South (at Queen Street) - Bathurst South (Esplanade Route) - De Grassi - Cherry Street-Distillery - St. Lawrence - Union South - Rogers Centre - Bathhurst South Future expension could go to a station at Exhibition Place and from there to Dundas West. The best route in terms of ridership would be Queen Street, although I think the Esplanade route would be cheaper to build. If we go on Queen, and a satellite GO station were to be built at Cherry street, tehn we would need a connection between it and the rest of the fast transist network; I'd go for LRT then, buried.

Backbone with feeder lines. Some of those though should be LRTs. Buses are too small to meet the needs of lines on Eglinton and Don Mills.

Paris, Madrid, Berlin, London also have LRTs.

We need to fully integrate GO into the transit net work. Paris RER seems like a good model for some of the lines. Certainly, we need more frequency, and to make it easier to connect between GO and subway and LRT lines. As for a Don Mills LRT, it would meet the needs of people in that corridor, so it is a good idea. Apart from people living close to it though, I am not convinced it would significantly relieve the pressure on the Yonge Line. For example, if I were living at Eglinton/Victoria, I would likely take the LRT to the Yonge line rather than change at Don Mills, then at Pape, then at Bloor/Yonge.