Bob

Because Iran can be compared to Israel, right? Get real. Israel does not belong to the category of countries that Iran bongs to: oppressive and closed societies. If you had mentioned North Korea, you'd have a point. But Israel being categorized in that manner?

It's just another lie in a long list of lies far too long to remember. I'm sure this Jihadi from Turkey was singing lullabies and kumbaya when a bloodthirsty IDF commando murdered him in cold blood.

Who is defending themselves from whom? They are deliberately provoking Israel by refusing the comply with lawful orders to STOP and be SEARCHED. You're acting as if this flotilla has some sort of right to sail to Gaza unimpeded, and that somehow this right was violated from the IDF. Do you not realize that there are legitimate security concerns that Israel has regarding Gaza? If you do recognize that, why is it then impossible for you to acknowledge that it is reasonable to expect Israel to enforce its blockade and require searches of vessels destined for Gaza? Israeli and other lives are at risk, and the blockade seeks to reduce these risks. And here you are, playing the role of the useful leftist idiot, acting as if their "right" to travel freely in the seas was violated by the evil IDF and that they had some right to "defend" themselves. Imagine if I refuse a lawful instruction from an officer or soldier (albeit in a war-zone), and then force is about to be used to make me comply with the order.... may I then "defend" myself lawfully? How are you so blind to not realize that these Jihadis got exactly what they wanted, in their very own words? Have you not seen the videos of the "demonstrators" on the Mavi Marmara openly stating their wishes to become martyrs (Shahids) less than hours prior to these events? They wanted to die for "Palestine".

All the proof we have demonstrates exactly the opposite. We've all seen the videos. The Mavi Marmara passengers on the deck were the exact opposite of "peaceful protestors". They were chanting Jihadi prayers and wishing for martyrdom prior engaging the Jewish enemy. They were all amped up on bloodthirst. Upon the boarding of the soldiers, they were viciously assaulted. Any reasonable person would realize that in such a situation the use of deadly force for self-defense by the IDF was entirely justified.

Absolutely. Israel made big mistakes with such a soft response. Everyone on the deck should have been ordered to lie flat on their stomachs via the boats and helicopters, and if they didn't comply, to be shot at prior to the boarding of the soldiers. Barak is a fool to send in soldiers onto a hostile ship packed with hundreds of Jihadi Islamist filth looking for blood. Subdue the enemy, and then board. These assertions that Israel was "too aggressive" are beyond stupid.

As usual, you have no problem creating a false narrative. If you're got proof, share it. We both know you're just making this shit up as you go along, with your buddy bloodyminded in tow. I anticipate that you'll link us to some "eyewitness testimony" from a site like counterpunch.org or some "Palestinian" advocacy group.

Got any proof of this, and can you provide the context surrounding it aside from "eyewitness testimony"? You're just parroting these pathetic lies which imply "executions" going on during the event. It's as if you think one of these "demonstrators" was standing, minding his own business, while and evil and bloodthirsty Israeli commando walked up to him and murdered him.

Excuse me, when did that happen?

Yes, who can argue with the ideologically-informed "experiences" of a 20-year-old "conflict resolution" major?

Why oh why do you watch Russian state media featuring leftist imbeciles like Gershon Baskin? Oh wait, I know why... because Russian state TV reinforces your obsession with conspiracies involving money that you "learn" about from Alex Jones about the Bilderburg Group....

What's not to understand? This is typical (and expected) from the typical anti-Israel/anti-Semitic left-wing "pro-Palestinian" rats. Anything Jewish/Israeli is to be condemned. They pull these stunts all the time, shouting down all manner of speakers and political figures (from Netanyahu to Michael Oren), illegally trespassing, harassing, and vandalizing businesses like Ahava and Motorola, intimidating and assaulting Jewish/Israeli students on campuses, etc.

Oh, did the UN come to a decision about another issue about which it knows nothing and wishes to politicize? Thankfully, statements prefaced with, "The UN said..." are becoming less and less credible every year as more and more people are becoming informed of just how disgusting the UN is. With respect to Israel, it's basically an Arab/Muslim interest group with economic/political power via OPEC.

Palestinians are not a distinct group of people. It's a fake subcategory of Arabs (who are overwhelmingly Muslim) created for the political purpose of destroying the Jewish state of Israel. Arabs/Muslims already have more states than you can shake a stick at. They don't need another, and certainly not at the expense of the only Jewish state.

Oh please. Bud always drops relevant context from his posts. If we weren't here, and he was posting all by his lonesome, Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorist organizations would never be mentioned. Bud may have may some conciliatory statements when he felt he couldn't deflect anymore, but when we examine him in his totality it is quite evident that he is not concerned at all with and chooses to ignore spilled Jewish blood.

So the left, as ironic as can be, consumes state-run media that is accountable to nobody, while the right consumes independent media that is accountable to its customers base. If there is a real demand out there for the CBC as it stands, it can survive on its own without 1.2 or 1.3 billion dollars a year from taxpayers. Thank God there's finally a voice out there on TV arguing for a defunding of the CBC.

The OP is just more of the same worthless liberal arts pink commie "intellectual" tripe that's been around since at least the 70s. It's funny listening to liberal arts students whine about "the earth" when the very reason they're in liberal arts is because they couldn't get a decent grade in science or math when in high school. Without even knowing it, the OP is trying to justify mass unemployment and poverty in the name of "the environment".

Check out this video clip from an Italian talk show, where an Italian politician (Daniela Santanche) continually describes Muhammad as a pedophile, to the ire of a guest Imam and Muslim audience members. She had safety concerns for years, afterwards. By the way, you can find many videos on YouTube regarding the failure of Muslim integration into Italy, as well. Mainstream Canadian media virtually never discusses the issues of multicultural/immigration failures in Europe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpdCfbSsNzQ&feature=related Here's a video about Muslim support for the veil in Italy. http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmpzjIgu4vA&feature=related

In my amateur opinion, I agree with that completely.

I'm way too lazy to read back through this thread, but you do realize the shooting took place on an island that is only normally accessible via ferry, right? Perhaps the police did respond slowly, but we really need more details about the existing infrastructure to be able to offer a meaningful analysis (where's the nearest police boat-house or departure point for police via boats, and what's the speed of their boats and distance to the island?). I think the somewhat unconventional and isolated location of the island largely explains the apparent long time it took for the authorities to respond. Was the response time too unreasonable at the time, given Norway's history with crime/terrorism? I doubt it, but who knows?

How can you like Seinfeld and not like Curb Your Enthusiasm? I just don't get it... The style of humour is very similar, it's just that CYE is more adult in its content/language.

I agree with American Woman's idea about the American government assisting them, provided they are sent a bill afterwards. They are certainly BEYOND stupid, and even worse, they are HIGHLY MOTIVATED to continue being stupid....

I forget... I agree, political views are not important. Stupidity and personal responsibility, on the other hand, are relevant issues. They knowingly went to hike around Iran, and these are all college-educated youths who should CERTAINLY know better. It's just that I think their behaviour is revealing of their politics. I am certain they are innocent as well. I doubt they had any intentions to spy or do wrong in Iran. They are certainly guilty of being idiots, however, and then willingly acting as propaganda pieces for the Iranian government while in custody (understandably, given their circumstances). Certainly. Iran is really messed up, right now. I don't know if you have any Iranian contacts, but have conversations with them about their friends/family in Iran (assuming they are still in contact with them). The stories of oppression and fear are really sad :-(

Oh please, stop trying to draw a connection between conservatism and/or the CPC and higher crime rates. You wanna talk about risk-factors for and REAL correlations with crime? Let's focus on more criminally-inclined ethnic/cultural groups.

Here's an article written by Shane Bauer (found through his website which he co-owns with the third hiker Josh Fatta)l. Some politicized rhetoric (in order to stay "balanced") isn't hard to find, such as "Palestinian resistance", lies about Hamas' lack of control (and therefore lack of responsibility) over "splinter" terrorist groups (referred to as "militant groups")in Gaza, and describing Fatah as "secular" (which is only true when compared to Hamas, of course).

I can cite it for you. They were on record being leftists before their apprehension. Let me look for it... Here's a revealing article written by one of the three detained "hikers", Sarah Shourd. It's filled with lies about Israel, including but not limited to Israel forcing Hebrew education at the expense of Arabic (Arab schools primarily teach Arabic, with less-than- modest standards for Hebrew), "poor quality" and "expensive" phone calls to Syria (use Skype if you're that broke?), using the "shouting hill" as the "only" way to communicate with relatives across the border, and lies about these Arabs in the Golan being unable to leave. If they want to emigrate to Syria, go for it! I came across other leftist articles she had written, before. I can look for them later. Wikipedia states that she spent time in Syria teaching English and working in "social justice". Look at her last name. Any more reason to doubt she's a hardcore leftist with strong anti-Israel views while engaging in hypocritical apologism for Arabs/Muslims? You can find more information about these folks, with cites, from this website that has no love lost for these leftists. They all romanticize Arabic/Islamic culture, which isn't surprising given than two of them are of that ancestry as well as the other having majored in Arabic. It's the usual story.