Bob

Is it better for uninvolved, ignorant, and politicized third-parties like yourself to pretend to be able to dictate to us what we should or should not do? Who are you to force us to live with a population that largely supports mass murder and terrorism? Do the "human rights" of the "Palestinians" to reside in specific areas trump our "human rights" to live in peace and security in our own land? As long as we live with them, entrenched with them, we will never have real peace and security. Only significant separation can provide that. Of course, more and more murdered Jews and Israelis means nothing to do. After all, it's probably our own fault, anyways. Saving lives doesn't matter, but protecting the "human rights" of the "Palestinians" to continue their political mission of mass murder and terrorism is of the utmost importance.

Sure there is. Nazis are rats. Communists are vermin. Islamists are filth. Their supporters and apologists are scum. They are subhuman and should be described as such, rather than oblivious myopic leftists like yourself who probably haven't ever travelled anywhere outside of your city, let alone country, for any appreciable amount of time who describe them as simply "persons with different politics".

Some parts are admirable, but overall, Islamic/Arabic societies are inferior and cling to some pretty sick practises and "values".

Not enough dead Israeli children, of course. It's not fair! Why is the "Palestinian" number in green with the Israeli number in blue? It's like some sort of sick competition...

Do you have a point?

Perhaps jacee is a johnny-come-lately to this issue, perhaps she's in her second year of liberal arts and thinks the Israeli-Arab conflict needs more exposure in order to create "greater awareness". Lord knows the "Palestinians" don't get enough light shone on their "plight". They might as well accept Israel as an Islamic state, which is exactly what they view it as - an illegal state built on top of land that belongs to them. A blight that will eventually be corrected through "liberation" and "struggle".

They can condemn or not condemn me. It's irrelevant to me. If anyone in Canada or America had to deal with a group of people that causes such murder and harm for so long, and regularly called for the destruction of their societies, "ethnic cleansing" wouldn't be so controversial. These "Palestinians" aren't innocent non-actors who are suffering without responsibility. Look at the disgusting political parties that represent them in the Knesset, and offer material and political support to terrorists. Imagine if we had political groups in Canada that praised Hamas, sent them money, and offered diplomatic support. Imagine an American political party that went to confer with Saddam Hussein, Ahmadinejad, and Kim Jong Il, who enjoyed near universal support from an identifiable group of people in their country. Expulsion is the only real answer. At a minimum, mass revocation of voting privileges for Arabs/Muslims must be done in Israel. It's the reality of the situation, rather than the fantasy of your mental masturbation while you pretend to advocate for a people of whom you've never met a single member.

Ah, so a body is a body regardless of context. So if you attack me with a knife, and I kill you in self-defense with a gun, I'm guilty. Great system of morality you operate with there. As if the number of dead Jews and Israelis is the relevant question outside of all context (all the attempts, all the plotting, and the resources that need to go to prevention of such acts of terrorism). I love how the defender is now of equal moral calibre as the would-be-murderer.

It's funny how GostHacked is wondering why another Islamic step on Israel's doorstep might be a problem... Apparently GostHacked is oblivious to the reality that anti-Semitism is an essential component of any Islamist society. Does he really not know the hatred of Jews in endemic to conservative Islam? For God's sake, take a few seconds and use Google to check out all the hatred of Jews in the Koran and in today's Islamic societies. And in a beautiful display of hypocrisy AND ignorance, isn't GostHacked one of those folks who derides Israel for being a "theocracy" (which of course it is not)? I love how it boils down to this - if they wanna live in an Islamic tyranny that oppresses, murders, or expels all "undesirables" and threatens its neighbours, what business is it of ours? GostHacked is of course half right, because that is indeed the type of society that many "Palestinians" want to build, but of course we can't accept that in our midst. So until the "Palestinian" society reforms itself and becomes a part of modern civilization and not a backward group of barbarians, the status quo will continue and they will require ongoing soft babysitting, otherwise known as a "brutal and dehumanizing occupation".

Pliny, as you can see, this is a total waste of time. The argument of the left boils down, "because I said so!". Fascism is much more in-line with the contemporary left-wing than with the contemporary right-wing, so why is it defined as a "far-right extreme ideology"? I was the first person in this thread to state the primary difference between fascism and communism, that being the nationalistic orientation of fascists and the international orientation of communists. Secondarily, I was also the first person in this thread to indicate the other main difference between these two systems, the permission of the ownership of private property in fascism (albeit under extreme government control) and the nationalization of all means of production under communism. Fascism, in practise, has many commonalities with the mainstream left, albeit to a slightly lower degree. Both fascism and the left want centralized control of education. Both fascism and the left want tight reigns on business operations. Both fascism and the left want great control over the culture and society (i.e. the CRTC and "Canadian content" and "Canadian ownership", "Ministry of Canadian Heritage", etc) through censorship and restriction of speech and expression ("Human Rights Tribunals"), indoctrination into "multiculturalism", and on and on and on. The left is never the advocate of freedom, but always trying to manufacture new "rights" for people, which are of course always required to be provided for and/or enforced by other third-parties who never consented to such obligations. Indeed, the left is always the source of advocacy for greater and greater involvement from the government in order to coerce others into manufacturing cultural/social change and "progressivism". I'm going to stop there, as it's clear there is no possibility of a serious discussion with the likes of the left in this thread, who endlessly defer to arguments no more sophisticated than, "scholars and professors say you're wrong!". Well then, I guess the argument is over!

No, because we were peaceful and productive members of the societies in which we lived. Always have been. We weren't engaging in mass murder campaigns for a century and indoctrinating our children with hatred again Muslims or Arabs. Had we conducted ourselves half as badly as the "Palestinians", we would definitely have deserved mass expulsion.

I speak for myself. And I never derided all Arabs or Muslims. My condemnation is reserved for Islamists and their political allies, which often includes the myopic, massively ignorant, and idealistic left who thinks that fancy ideas trump experience.

Exactly, as if Israelis with Canadian citizenship ever bailed when "time got tough". It's funny how this guy is trying to preemptively accuse me of something we don't ever do, when we all know exactly which groups are the real "Canadians of convenience".

I'm saying that what must be done is a separation of us from those who continually murder us. Call it whatever you want. About a million Jews were kicked out of their homes and forced to move thousands of kilometres away to new homes, without justification. Here, I'm saying that the "Palestinians" are not an innocent people, and they should be (largely) removed to live on the other side of the Jordan river.

Here's an organization that monitors hate-education in the "Palestinian" society. http://www.impact-se.org/

The most important thing to know is that coexistence was offered by the pre-Israel early Zionists. Of course the Arabs rejected this. And the subsequent "dispossession" occurred. It didn't have to be that way, but hey, who can blame a bunch of illiterate and deeply religious Muslim-Arab "farmers" for hating the return of Jewish people to help develop the land into a modern and functioning state? All the leftists in here would've done the same, they would've opposed the construction of hospitals, universities, agricultural projects, homes, etc... The Arabs/Muslims were right to resist the Jewish refugees who brought with them the promise of modernity and a brighter future by engaging in mass murder and pogroms. Nothing funnier than the "Dances With Wolves" perspective of analysis of the origins of the Israeli-Arab conflict.

Maybe not all of them. But definitely many of them. And they're only going to be moved a few kilometres, either way. The Arabs were given about 80% of the British Mandate for Palestine, so let the rest of them join their "brothers and sisters". It's important to remember that my call for their removal isn't on a whim, it's based on about a century of violence that we've been victimized by from their side. I don't care what someone's last name or religion or skin colour is, what I do care about is whether or not he or she wants to murder me or supports those that do because of MY last name, skin colour, or religion. Coexistence doesn't work with these people, they are highly religious, absolutely opposed to modern ideal of democracy and freedom, and very racist/prejudiced against others (especially us). As I've said many times, there are tens of thousands of good reasons for my position on this issue, and those reasons are buried across Jewish and non-Jewish cemeteries in Israel and abroad. We cannot live with these people any longer, because they refuse to accept our independence. And the longer we go on and on submitting to the will of outsiders in order to fulfill some sort of perverted social science experiment, the more Jews and and Israelis will die. It's not just us, anyways, as I've already said Islamic/Arabic societies are inferior and violent, but for us it's a reality that in our streets and in our back yard, rather than just something you see on the news when you read about an Islamist suicide bomber outside of an elementary school in Jerusalem. That's how these people are, look at Pakistan, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen, Libya, Iran, Iraq, or any other Muslim-majority country. Violence and hatred and backwardness is how they conduct themselves, and we cannot keep acting like idiots pretending that these people are just like everyone else and simply "misunderstood". The question remains for GostHacked, who is calling for genocide?

Wait a second, if I moved from Israel to Canada... am I no longer a Canadian?

Who is calling for genocide of a group of people? You certainly do set a pretty low standard for yourself...

It was meant to be an interim agreement as part of a longer term movement towards the "two-state solution". Makes you wonder why they never accepted the Partition Plan, and never made any serious efforts towards real independence between 1949 and 1967, when Gaza was ruled by Egypt and the "West Bank" was ruled by Jordan. Why didn't they build "Palestine" during those years? They were made a much more serious offer at Camp David, and many other offers via Barak and then Olmert) which people can read about if they go to the library (Dennis Ross' "The Missing Peace" is worth a read). It's funny how an internet advocate like yourself for the downtrodden "Palestinians" can scoff at offers made for increased autonomy to a "people" that has nothing to offer except undeliverable promises of reduced terrorism. As if the "Palestinians" are in some sort of position to be demanding things they were offered before. It's like a girl denying several invitation for a date this week from a gentleman, and then years later comes back to the guy who originally asked her out, and he's now married, and she is now demanding TWO dates at the most expensive restaurants OR ELSE! Even funnier is how you're pretending to be familiar with the terms of the agreement. You're certainly not fooling me with your "bantustan" rhetoric. Go watch some more Noam Chomsky two-minute clips on YouTube...

The left has successfully hoodwinked the mainstream discourse via misrepresenting fascism as an "extreme right-wing ideology" through their dominance of academia on these matters (political science). I've explained it in moderate detail in this thread, and of course the usual gang of leftists parrot the same lies and refuse to acknowledge the simple facts - fascism has much more in common with the contemporary left than the contemporary right. So far, I don't think anyone in here has disputed that basic fact. So since fascism shares many more parallels with today left than with today's right, how is it that fascism continues to be described as an "extreme right-wing ideology"? All the attacks against my position have been non-arguments: "most scholars/academics disagree with you" (so?), "your self-description is 'extreme right-wing ultra-nationalist extremist'" (they have no sense of humour as I'm mocking them with my own self-description), and "prominent historical fascists said things contrary to you when describing fascism" (Lenin and Stalin glorified communism, are their proclamations dependable sources of information on what communism really is?). Basically, nobody has provided any real argumentation disputing my basic premise, and I know nobody will. Instead we'll just run in circles with the leftists throwing red herring after stinking red herring, successfully destroying any probability of any sensible discourse.

You're bang on in your description of the "Palestinian" desires. Don't take my word for it, read the proclamations of their leaders who still can't bring their disgusting little lips to utter recognition of Jewish independence in Israel. Look at the how they STILL regularly engage in murder and other forms of terrorism - even against "their own", see how Fatah and Hamas murdered each other in the fallout of the 2005 Gazan "elections". Look at how they are constantly in breach of the Oslo Accords as they continually promote incitement, officially, through all channels - school curriculum, political declarations, all forms of media (which are almost exclusively "state"-owned), etc. Or, take a gander at the Arabic/Islamic discussion boards and use Google Translate. Don't take my word for it (although I've likely had more conversations about this issue with Arabs/Muslims, and have listen to/read the opinions of "prominent" Arabs/Muslims regarding the conflict than most people in here combined). They don't want peace. They tell us they don't want peace. They regularly engage in and actively support terrorism and mass murder and "resistance". They revile Jewish people and those they view as our allies - Westerners. And on and on and on.

Wow, another leftist with sickening lies comes out of the woodwork. Imagine how far to the left you have to be to put quotations around "repressive regimes" when referring to Middle Eastern countries (not Israel, of course), as if somehow that description isn't accurate. The same leftists were attacking Reagan for describing the Soviet Union as the "evil empire", as if somehow that definition also wasn't apt. How would you, oh righteous one, prefer to describe theocratic dictatorships like Saudi Arabia? I love the hypocrisy of the left, screaming for "human rights" in the most ridiculous of situations, and utterly silent when real basic violations are taking place. Pathetic and disgusting. I really can't stand that we have people like you in our country, who comfortably question the accuracy of describing Saudi Arabia as an "oppressive regime" with your little sarcastic quotation marks and preface of "so-called". We need to deport you to Saudi Arabia and banish the next ten generations of any descendents you may have.

I've explained before that Zionism isn't predicated on the removal of anyone. The displacement of Arabs/Muslims who then transformed themselves into the "Palestinians" after June 1967 occurred as a result of their own rejection of Jewish independence, and rejecting an extended hand of friendship from the early Zionists. They have nobody to blame but themselves. And spare me the talk of "refugee camps". These "refugee camps" are permanent towns and cities, complete with plumbing, electricity, wireless internet and phone service, waste removal, schools, hospitals, police officer and stations, fire stations, and every other essential service and most luxuries you can imagine. Who cares if they don't have a passport that belongs to a "state" with a seat at the UNGA? "Stateless" is so overused, and they seem to be doing quite well for themselves (considering they are the biggest welfare-cases in the world) considering this "disadvantage".

Why waste time even responding to GostHacked? He can't even grasp the difference between a state, a religion, and ethnic group, and nationalism. He regularly confuses all those concepts. He's clearly ill-equipped to engage in this type of dialogue. Let him enjoy his Alex Jones Bilderberg conspiracy-theories from another fellow high-school graduate.