dizzy

So, your argument is that, since the 8th century, the evolutionary shift of power around the globe has basically been caused by rampaging muslims?

The US has about 65 000 H1-B visa participants (new and recurring combined) vs. 900 000 new immigrants/yr. Well more than half of US immigrants come from latin american countries, about 25% from mexico alone. Most of them do not have post-secondary education and typically work in lower paying trade and service sectors. But they do work. Hard. In Canada there is not an H1-B specific class. All foreign worker visas amount to about 150 000/yr. vs. immigration at about 250 000. About half of the immigrants to Canada come from Asian countries. About 56% of total immigrants come with a post secondary education (mainly university and post-grad). Here's a really good outline of immigrants (not foreign temporary workers)by work intention: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2008/permanent/22.asp Note: only about 7000 are retirees. And many of them participate in the soft economy by taking care of their grandchildren and helping to care for the home, allowing their children to provide labour to the economy at a lower wage than with which they could survive were they required to pay for childcare. Like JBG said earlier, I have no problem with immigrants coming to canada if they are ready to work their asses off. I just happen to think that the vast majority do, and the data supports my position. For the very few older people that come in the care of their working children I say, who cares? Keeping families intact is an honourable thing and I'm happy to live in a country that facilitates it.

I may not be getting your point but I'm not confused about mine. An H1-B is not immigration. There are student and work visa and foreign migrant worker programs here, as well. We are talking immigration in this thread. Over half of canada's immigrants come in through one of the economic classes. They largely enter with in-demand skills. That some are not able to practice is not a function of their degrees being worthless but with provincial regulating bodies who want to limit competition by excluding foreign-earned credentials. This is why the federal government is working with the provinces to address this issue. Where the US is clearly succeeding is on the front of recognizing these credentials. Their free market spirit wins over oligarchical approach practiced by some professional bodies here. But if you think this or your silicon valley experience represents the whole story on US immigration, well this line in particular... "The way the US system works is you need a *job* acceptance and a sponsoring employer to let you in the country." ... suggests that you are basing your whole understanding of US immigration on your personal experience. Keeping in mind Canada's continuing high-ranking economic performance, I think what needs to happen here is a matter of fine tuning, not radical change.

I offered data that suggests the following: 1. most immigrants are of a prime working age 2. immigrants tend to be better educated than the average resident canadian 3. immigrants are big contributors to our advanced knowledge pool (PhD or other post grads, sciences, etc) 4. immigrants who can't work in their field still contribute by working (often in lower paying jobs) Can those arguing a sky is falling attitude toward immigration answer a couple of questions with data to support: 1. by how much are we financially burdened by older immigrants? Does this number consider their soft participation in the economy (e.g. providing daycare for their grandkids so that their children can work)? 2. What is the net cost of immigration to canada? How much money are we losing to lazy, underperforming immigrants who can't speak english or french and jump into the dole lines as soon as they jump off the boat?

There's actually little other than nuance in what you've written that I'd make a dispute over. Crime is, in part, attitudinal which is, in part, cultural. But what are you going to do about it? Can you show me success stories wrt behaviour modification in other countries that collect data that are more successful than our own? I'm asking because I'd like to know how we can do things better.

I have more fun poking the troll. Especially because he's always around to respond in the moment.

You should let your compatriots in california and texas know. They seem to think that they have a problem with mexican freeloaders.

It's a fair question. How will the stats enable you to affect change? When black kids shoot each other up in northwest toronto, the conversation quickly moves to problems with immigration, multiculturalism, etc. When a white guys serial rapes and kills children or women, we want to go inside of his mind to understand what makes him tick. When an muslim father shamelessly kills his daughter for debasing herself with western ideals, the call radio phone lines light up again. When a white guy slaughters his entire family and then offs himself in the same news cycle, no one's calling to address 'the bigger issue'. I have no problem collecting race-based stats... all of them, including on whites. But the question is, "what are you going to do with them?"

Where did you get the impression that I feel hard done by? I'm just here for the occasional (thoughtful) discussion, but it is occasionally fun to pole the troll with the, "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" perma-rhetoric.

Some americans grow up wishing they were bullies that bullied them in high school. Not all of them, just some of them.

Let's see... paul bernardo, charles carl roberts, jeffrey dahmer, a considerable minority of priests with the roman catholic church, here are a couple more: http://crime.about.com/od/history/tp/Child-Killers.htm If we tack on serial attacks on women we get robert pickton, russell williams, marc lepine, etc, etc. image google child molestors. Oh wait, I did it for you: http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=TJM&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&resnum=0&q=child+molesters&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=D9LAS87sHoT68AbZ9sTzCA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQsAQwAw see something common about those faces? I think we should return to race-based crime statistics and, based on the outcome, limit white male access to places like public parks, school zones and malls. Don't you agree?

I'm not thinking buffoon. overeducated and underloved with middle child syndrome, maybe...

My point wasn't to provide you with numbers but to demonstrate that the conservative government recognizes that the problem exists. Here's another article on the same that I've already posted here: http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/business/article/218392--deal-to-speed-foreign-credential-recognition You want numbers? Immigrants are coming here with higher than canadian average educations: http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/[email protected]?iid=29 (see 'recent immigrants') They are the major contributor to our PHD and advanced sciences pool: http://www.stic-csti.ca/eic/site/stic-csti.nsf/eng/00032.html And indeed much of our post graduate pool: http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2006/as-sa/97-560/p13-eng.cfm

You're assuming that all children of immigrants are born or come at a very young age. newcomers come at all ages and, as such, this is an ongoing reality that we can easily measure on a year-to-year, not generation-to-generation, basis.

I don't disagree that language is the barrier for some. But: http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/business/article/218392--deal-to-speed-foreign-credential-recognition There's also an episode of White Coat Black Art that I'm trying to track down for you, where Dr. Goldman interviews some (born and raised) Canadians who decided to complete their medical studies in other countries, in places like Ireland and australia, I think, because acceptance rates were higher, but then returned to Canada to hit the credential wall.

If we did, would we see a disproportionate tendency by white men in north america to violently sexually abuse children? A scan of the newspapers headlines suggests yes. But what would this teach us about white men?

Your federal government disagrees. Here's a plan they've recently established to address the problems surrounding foreign credential recognition: http://www.actionplan.gc.ca/initiatives/eng/index.asp?mode=3&initiativeID=76 The problem, of course, is that much of this domain rests with the provinces and their empowered regulating bodies. I give the federal conservatives credit for recognizing the problem and attempting a pan-canadian solution.

It's a continuing trend. Feel free to disprove with evidence that second generation children of east/south asian heritage don't outperform every other segment of society up until today. Then look at from where the biggest numbers of immigrants come.

Not true. The problem with medical professionals who don't speak either english or french might be the language barrier. Those who speak english well, often as a first language are in the same boat as those who don't... driving cabs or re-emmigrating to the US where they can get their credentials recognized quickly. The real problem are medical associations that want to keep the pool of clients contained in a fee-for-service environment.

It's not the point system that is failing us but the inability of immigrants to get their foreign-earned credentials recognized by our professional bodies. Y'know, doctors driving taxis and all that. Where the US clearly has a better immigration system is in this one important detail - immigrants can easily work in their field when they get there.

It goes against everything I believe to say this, but this type of rhetoric justifies the reluctance of armed forces to share the realities of combat with common folk. You simply can not relay the urgency of war or the antecedents and compiled intel that lead up to a particular moment, such as is seen in this video. Most people are not capable of digesting what is being done to protect their quality of life.

I won't get into a pissing match about who best preserves democracy for fear that the bureaucrats, politicians and lawyers on here jump in for their stake. Point is, like for soldiers, some become journalists because they care about protecting or improving life for their compatriots, some do it for the paycheque and others to fulfill their delusions of grandeur. But, like soldiers, most do it for a complex mix of the three.

No, 90 is not significant at all. With 'TAVs' and 'SAVs', the number of canadian troops in afghanistan is already considerably higher than the offical count.

The only evidence I've seen suggests that most immigrant groups overachieve in postsecondary education and benefit accordingly by the second generation: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/cgi-bin/af-fdr.cgi?l=eng&loc=/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2008308-eng.pdf Indo Canadians are second in this regard only to Chinese Canadians and above 'regular' Canadians.

They do. I've noticed a tendency in the forces to view the media as the deathwatch. It's unfortunate, as reporters are as important to protecting democracy as are the troops. And they are pretty critical appendages of the war machine, which is why both the Canadian and US forces have been so eager to embed them.