takeanumber

Isn't recording somebody without their consent/knowledge illegal in Canada? I believe that you need a court warrant to do it. Well then...when is the RCMP investigation into Conservative criminality? Double standard much?

Speaks for itself. ---- Classical liberals cannot crawl into bed with the Conservative party because the Conservative Party is not a classical liberal party. As I have argued elsewhere, the Conservative party embodies anti-liberal policies and attitudes on abortion, marriage, women, equality, communitarian values and worse -- economics. To summarize why this is the case: 1. Abortion Classical liberal: Although I have personal feelings about the choice to have an abortion, one must respect the right of the individual to decide for themselves, and provide equal opportunity and access to the said services regarding that choice. Conservative Party: We don't respect the right of a woman to choose, and though we dont' have it in our platform, that's not to prevent a private members' bill followed by a free vote to deprive women of that choice. Focus on the Family, dammit. 2. Marriage Classical liberal: If two men or two women want to get married and have children, that is their choice. Children benefit, the community benefits, and the rights of the individual is respected. If churches want no part of it, they are free to have no part of it, however, the church has no role in the public policy debate (true classical liberalism.) Conservative: We really don't believe in homosexuality and we're going to go all out to ensure that their relationships are not sanctioned by society. Because we believe in this view, we believe that the souls of children are harmed by such families (religious arguement). We have the right to force our religious beliefs on everybody else. 3. Women Classical liberal: Women have the right to equality in the workplace and in society. Conservative: Women's traditional role is in the household, and much of society's ills derive from the deterioraton of these 'traditional family values'. 4. Equality classical liberal: Everybody has the right to equal treatment by public institutions. Society benefits from the equality of opportunity and the supremacy of meritocracy over aristocracy. Conservative: We have gone too far in pushing 'equal rights' in this country. Aristocracy isn't so bad...why shouldn't we have the right to preserve our rightly place at the top of society for our children? 5. Communitarian Values classical liberal: Everybody has the freedom to participate in their communities. Conservative: Only like-people should reside in specific communities...if you don't fit in...get out. (This is exemplefied by how the homeless are treated in urban areas, and how people who don't go to church are treated in rural alberta). Moreover, if you're handicapped...stay home and be happy with the 700 bux a month we give you. 6. Economics classical liberal: Laissez-faire dominant, minor government intervention. Conservative: Laissez-faire dominant: with the exception of subsidies for: Farmers (BSE, Wheat, Oats, Millet, any other grain, Pork, Chicken, Alpaca, goat and milk) Auto Industry (What's good for the auto industry is good for ontario) Banks Friends of Klein, Harris. (Gotta hand out the pork). Friends of Harper, supporters of the Calgary School (Should they win.) Energy (ie. Oil) companies. Rural Postal Service Rural Telephone Service Rural Electricity Service Rural Roads Rural Internet Service ---------- The Conservative Party of Canada is not a Classical Liberal party.

Here Here. There are other values at stake: The Charter for one. Social values for another. Moreover, the tories solution to ending corruption is to get out the Liberals, as though corruption is solely a Liberal phenomenon. It isn't. What the NDP and Martin (And Brison and Stronach) are doing is putting in safeguards and transparency to ensure that this doesn't happen again and again. The Tory/Bloc alliance has no such plan. So even on corruption the Cons can't win.

The National Post, Calgary Herald and GlobalTV is liberal? This martyrdom of Saint Harper is wearing thin. ------------ If you love Bush, Klein and Harris, you'll love Harper. If you want Canada to resemble those regimes, then there's no changing your mind: you'll vote for Harper. If you want a different vision, minus the corruption, you gotta vote for a Lib-NDP-Green coalition. Those are the two visions of the country. Make no mistake about it. Moreover, none of the resident conservatives on this board have stepped forward to challenge this assessment.

I don't think it was ever Harper's intent to run a big tent party...it was their intent to get dressed up as sheep. I don't think the party can ever be moderated at this point, as it is dominated by Calgary School Idealogues, Kleinists and Harrisites.

So, the Conservatives set up an illegal wire tap, and then try to trick the liberals into making an offer to Grewal...and then they proceed to accuse the liberals of 'buying people'...then go onto to buy Chuck Cadman. That's what I've never liked about the Conservatives: being 'principled' means actually being 'principled', not: saying that you are 'principled' and accusing everybody else of not being 'principled'.

I tend to agree with that assessment. He has a good character. I think it's sad how the Cons treated him though, when he got cancer.

Talk to Ontario women much?

Cadman voted Yea. Budget Passes. Reactions? Mine: lol.

You know, if this really is the case, Harper really isn't a very good leader, or a very good person for that matter. Harper isn't our only hope. A stable Liberal-NDP coalition is.

Reagan: You still havn't addressed my points, you merely 'yawned'. So, are we to conclude that you can't confront them? You have a say. You have 99 seats. You have 30% support roughly, you have 30% of the seats. Are you asking for more than your fair share? I thought that was the Right's principled arguement against the Left...

I quote you directly. How is that possibly a distortion. Moreover, I never said that I'm a victim, I'm merely pointing out whenever you demean myself or my family. And I'll continue to do so. It serves as a demonstration that whenever you can't grapple with the points that I make, you resort to personal smearing. In light of what Ablonzy et al have been up to, it's very typical. That said, I noticed you didn't address anything I had written. So tell me, what should be done with us 'enemies'.

There is no compelling reason to hand the keys over to Harper. In fact, what should be most insulting to Conservatives is that GIVEN the corruption in Quebec, people would still RATHER vote for the Liberals than to even RISK a Conservative government. I'll break it down like this: The same people who have run Alberta since the eighties and the same people who ran Ontario in the Nineties want to run Canada. If you want Canada to resemble Harris' Ontario, or modern day Klein's Alberta...then go ahead and vote Conservative. You'll love it. If you want a better society than that vision, you'll vote for centre or centre-left party. It's just that simple. There are some here who will defend the callousness of Harris or the corruption, neglect and arrogance of Klein. I suspect that they're going to contribute posts in support of that vision. Just remember AISH. Just remember AISH. That's the portrait of what Conservative governments do.

Wow. So you were trying to disprove my point about being mocked, and go onto say that we're 'enemies'. Whew. So what should be done to Liberals/Greens/NDP'ers in Alberta if they're enemies? What would you have done with us? City councils in both cities behave more like conservatives. Wow, a slur against my family. ---------- Hmmmmm, with attitudes like those, you wonder why 70% of the population doesn't want to vote for you?

I'm tolerant of your views, and that's the great thing about Canada...you can be as wrong as you want to be, and won't get purged. Moreover, in the past you've told me to 'fuck off', and have launched personal attacks against me. I've never done any such thing towards you. So I'm confused where this charge of 'intolerance' comes from. ----- Oh look, another personal attack, thx Reagan. It's not all about corruption. There are other values at play, principled values. Do I want to vote for a party that calls women 'whores' and 'prostitutes', and then defends such language? Do I want to vote for a party who is so totally out of touch with my values, and the values of mainstream Canadians? That said, I'm either voting Liberal, Green, or NDP. The Cons, guilty of hipocracy at best and soiling homosexuals, youth, veterans, women, and the charter at worst, will never, ever get my vote. I'm proud to say as a Canadian, I'm pro-equality, pro-youth, pro-veteran, pro-woman and pro-charter! Too bad Conservatives cannot say the same with ANY credibility!

you'd think they'd have some honour.

I'd like to talk about this: 1. Small town Alberta: Years of Liberal Arrogance. I live in big city Alberta, and I've dealt with years of Conservative Arrogance. For instance, AISH (It's DISGUSTING how we treat our handicapped in this province, just DISGUSTING!), neglect of gang warfare, neglect of infrastructure, neglect of post secondary education, a media that pays ZERO attention to any of these issues, and turns a blind eye to Tory corruption and fans the flames of hatred towards anybody who isn't a Tory, little though making fun of homosexuals when you don't think that one is in the room. Urban issues have been systematicaly neglected by the Conservative government. So, you're mad that the country doesn't have a government just like Kleins? I'm a pretty right wing person compared to people out East, and I don't want what you want....the domination of Canada by the Rural Alberta special interest. 2. "Westerners are mocked" Liberals are mocked in Alberta -- and systematically so. That doesn't make either action right...but I'd like to see more respect paid to Alberta's political minorities and for Westerner's in general. 3. "Western Seperatism" How patriotic. I'm a Canadian First. My family has fought for this country. I will continue to put country ahead of province. Does rural Alberta have a voice? Yes. Does it matter? Yes. (manning drove the agenda for a long time.) Does it deserve to dominate the country? NO. 30 million of us live in this country too.

Agreed. I don't believe Grewal or Flannagan. It's just not credible.

Agreed. But it's getting more visceral now. Many Cons, already angry about everything else, are especially angry at Liberal supporters for, what they perceive, is the support of corruption. Nothing could be furthur from the truth. Liberals are supporting Liberals because of principles. Here is an equation that Conservatives will never understand: Charter > Corruption; National Unity > Corruption; Certainty > Corruption; Cleaing up corruption > Ongoing Corruption. Until Cons 'get it', they'll never get government.

Ablonzy, a Conservative MP for Calgary Nose Hill, made the initial allegations against Sgro regarding strippergate. Sgro was completely cleared. Why hasn't Ablonzy apologized?

I don't believe that this is the case.

Language like this helps nobody.

August: What I don't think you understand is how this all looks from Ontario's point of view. To them, the perception is, rightly or wrongly, that the Quebec scandal is just another product of Quebecois political culture. When people hear about Gomery in Ontario, they don't remember any of these names...they just hear a never ending string of french last names, and french liberal party officials, and the BQ/PQ getting money, and they conclude that the scandal is confined to Quebec, and to the French wing of the party. The solution becomes clear, get the English Canadian liberal party -- which is still perceived as being semi-good, to clean up the French mess, and better yet, slap such stern controls on parties so that nobody, not even Quebeckers, can screw it up again. Moreover, to many people, the Quebec corruption is just that: another issue, one of many. And they don't want what Harper is selling.

That petty name calling cost the Conservatives MANY votes amongst the people you guys needed the most: Ontario women. The Centre-Left of this country (NDP + Lib) is up over 55%. The Centre-Left+Green is up over 60%

Alright, you said political prostitute. So -- is it wrong to call her a whore?