Sir Bandelot

Same thing happened in Yugoslavia when the Soviet Union collapsed. People who lived peacefully under dictatorial rule suddenly began killing one another, along ancient tribal lines. The Serbs and the Croats, they were not muslims. Yes, the new "Untermensch".

Precisely why Saddam had to be a brutal dictator. It's the only way to run countries composed of groups like this, that have a history of violence toward one another. Not, democracy

Detector?? OHH. And here all along I thought it was DEFLECTOR...

I have been a bully, and I am sorry.

Your ability to invert facts into their complete opposite is duly noted. Meanwhile your dogs are sniffing around for scraps, I see. Maybe a lifting of the tail is in order? Despite your protestations of the futility of my posts, I did manage to effect some change. "If it's us or them..." has gone away. And that is "irrefutable" evidence. Please carry on with your obfuscations, I know how necessary it is at times like this... to save face. Any kind of face saving in your case, will be an improvement...

Incorrect, as it is actually you who are afraid to accept the idea that placing value on race is ok. By saying, how dare I accuse you and the other bedwetters of racism. I have no probelm with that

Racialism is a just a single word. Misspelled, yes. there may not even be such a word. Meanwhile, Us and Them is a larger idea. It includes racialism, but also other possibilities. My hockey team versus your hockey team. What about the English Civil War. Are there no clans? are there no tribes? My skin is white, as yours may be, although doubtful, and yet we are not necessarily the same. How many races are there

Indeed I think it is, jefferiah. Indeed I think it is... But let us not be so sensitive as to say, we should not allow a discussion of race and its benefits. I think if you look back more closely at what jbg wrote in the OP, you'll see that it is HE who takes an issue with it. Not I! It's not really about Germany, is it? Or maybe it is, for JBG. He can answer to that if he wants to. I'm saying, once we talk about us and them, we're already entering the realm that separates people into groups, along certain lines. But, NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I'm saying, in and of itself there's nothing actually wrong with that!

Before you launch into a lengthy diatribe about the meaning of the word "race", let me spare you the time. I do not concede that. Us and them is equivalent to racialism, along braod lines. I find it amuzing that JBG, who feels Us and Them to be an important enough idea to be in his signature, criticises someone else who is also highly concerned about us and them. But of course, the good news is, Us and Them is now gone from JBG's signature. But apparently for this I am the one who is "post hoc back tracking", by his residant apologists. God I love the irony!

I know it's very complicated, MDancer... but the last thing which you quoted me in your previous message, should be enough for you to figure it out, if you try very hard. One must exercise ones mental faculties regularloy

No inconsistency there. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=16972&view=findpost&p=573210 Why cans't Johnny Read?

You fail to see a lot of things, my friend. But to be fair, the phrase itself is not in question. For what is wrong with being biased, or having a preference for the protection and survival of ones own culture, ones own race? NOTHING

Just dumbing it down for you countrified folk! And the know-nothing conservativen!

Nice. There was a positive outcome in the thread then. In response to other peoples problems, you changed yourself.

That's right. Nothing to see here folks... move along...

True, but those who do not learn from history... etc

No, I'm suggesting we turned away people who needed help.

Seems to me that like most of us, his beliefs changed over time. But that's normal, it's called wisdom. I think in the end he disliked people who thought they knew the answers, people who held fixed beliefs. He saw that as arrogance. In the end he may have realized, everything that we perceive is only coming from our limited senses. Our brains are not capable of understanding the whole picture. That's why Socrates said, we know nothing. But through evolution and the preservation of knowledge, we come to realize what seemed utterly impossible to us yesterday. That's the way it's been in the past, so many times over, and that's the way it will continue. The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine. Anyone who's into science knows this to be true.

Some interesting ideas there, I think it needs to be explored more. Why did the christian churches undergo reformation? It was because of corruption. The pope was corrupt. Example, just look at the Borgias. Incest, murders, orgies in the Vatican! And the problem still exists to this day. We hear about Irish priests involved with the IRA in planning terrorist bombings. Innocent people killed. The coverup was handled by the bishop, and must have been known by people at the highest levels of the church. Just thought I'd throw that in, as an example of what we're dealing with here. Now is it just possible that this level of corruption, never happened to this extent in Islam? Surely they've murdered people. But did their actions go completely against their own God? Or is it just simply that their religion, Islam, sanctions acts of violence in the name of "justice" for Allah? Food for thought, chew for the bigots. Let there be weeping, and gnashing of teeth, oh my!

I am not blaming you for writing in your sig about "us and them", but I am criticizing you for calling out someone else, for doing the same thing. One needs to examine the lines and fingers

So you really have no problem with it then. But you fail to recognize, your sig is just as racialist as the one that you posted about, irregardless

Ok. I did it anyway

Ship, refugees, Canada. Lots of people don't know this story. I like to tell about it, once in a while. Got to get my digs in, on the overly sanctimonious who think that our country is so good, all the time.

It is fascinating. Sure, Kirk and the other dude may have taken it a bit too far at the very, end where they mentioned hell. But I don't think you need to apologize. I am not a christian in the traditional sense of the word. But at the end of the day, I'd rather be in a room full of bible thumpers than one filled with athiests. Imagine, a room filled with people like Dog On Porch...

Of course you would. And here is your sig: "If it's us or them, I choose us."