kengs333

Well, I think it was fairly well known that the Nazi regime didn't hold Jews in high regard, but if you're trying to tell me that the Canadian government was fully aware of what was being discussed amongst the high-ranking members of the German government, then you're wrong. Nor can the Canadian government know what the Nazis were going to cook up in the coming years, nor how brutal and sweeping it would be. It's convenient to make arguments about what was known at the time in hindsight, and to twist it to suit one's critique of history. Exactly how many places in this world are controlled by oppriessive regimes? Can you tell me jus what is happening in each, how many people are being tortured and killed, who they are, where exactly it's taking place, how it's being done, and where they are being disposed of? If you do, how do you know if the information is accurate and reliable? Why isn't Canada intervening in any of these problems--is that not a blot on Canada's history, too?--and what are you personally doing to stop it? They may have been escaping persecution, but it wasn't all that clear that "certain death" was part of the equation at this time; remember, the Nazis were shipping people off to Palestine, and they had allowed Jews to leave so that they could go somewhere else; if they wanted them all dead at that time, why would this have been going on? Moreover, if I recall correctly, the camp that visiting dignitaries were being shown was a "model" camp that impressed and fooled many people into believing that the Germans weren't mistreating the Jews as badly as was being rumoured. The Nazis were masters of propaganda--and this is no more clearer in the fact that they managed to fool many people outside of Germany, as well. And no doubt in sixty years something that's been going on recently will be the subject of criticism by people who consider it a "blot on" Canada's history for not having what hindsight suggests would have been the best course of action.

This actually occured in 1939, before the war. But whatever the case, I don't see why any country should be obliged to taken in any boatload of refugees, regardless of who they are, when they simply show up off the coast wanting to get in. I don't think that anyone really knew what was going to happen in Europe at that time, just how bad things were going to get.

Also obvious in recent years has been the very vocal debate against using the phrase "Merry Christmas" so I suppose it's just a matter of your being brilliant again--at "not paying attention" yourself. This is a debate that would never occur about any other religion in the country, and the movement against Christmas in general is being spearheaded by atheists and anti-Christians. But of course this would never constitute religious intolerance or bigotry...

Perhaps you should take your own advice. The two largest groups of immigrants--constituting the vast majority--were from Britain and the United States, both for obvious reasons. Large numbers of people were not fleeing Europe for obvious reasons, as well: it was a difficult undertaking because there was a war going on. http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/maclabour/article.php?id=836 http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/maclabour/article.php?id=838

How modest. Perhaps you should try doing so, then. I think the problem is that when people try to discuss Israel on the "same basis" as other countries, the reaction is overly hypersensitive.

I'm not trying to justify "senseless carnage" at all. I'm simply stating that's what the Nazis decided to do given the situation that they put themselves in.

Actually, it should be exacerbated.

Interesting... a new members has made their first posit in this thread... and has linked the same article twice...

Where exactly is the "breathtaking... hatefulness"??? I'm just stating the bare facts of what happened. In trying to twist things way out of proportion you're worse than Posit. And you obviously need a good lesson in the history of Germany. Sadly it appears that you can't discuss the issue without anti-this and anti-that.

Jews weren't allowed into the country from 1940-1945 because there was a war on.

Germany's constitution is designed to inhibit the growth of any ideology that has fascist and cult-like tendancies for obvious reasons; this is, moreover, something that was imposed upon the Germans by the Allies after the war, but until now it has worked reasonably well. Arguably, German is now a more democratic country and less inclined to have some sort of ideological faction usurp power than any of the countries that "defeated" it in WWII. I recall one time John Travolta spazzing out on camera about Germany being "fascist" for treating Scientology the way it does. Talk about stupid. Well, just about everyone in Hollywood is stupid, so I guess he was being really stupid.

None of these exist in Germany anymore, to my knowledge.

Have you tried?: http://caledoniawakeupcall.com/ The only obvious assault that I've seen in any of the videos shows Powless striking McHale, but of course he has not been charged.

Sure, rising gun violence and crime, increased ghettoization of certain parts of the city. Big cities are bad enough as it is, but pumping in hundreds of thousands of immigrants who are not accustomed to living in such an urban environment and have poor English skills not a good idea. The glitzy, modern look of Toronto from the air is not a reflection of the increased benefits brought by immigration.

Okay, so a convoy of Canadian armoured vehicles pass through a Dutch town and people are lined up along the side of the road cheering, throwing flowers and kissing soldiers... the question is: 1) how large is the crowd in relation to the town's population? 2) where is the rest of the town? 3) how sincere are these people? 4) why should they throw molotov cocktales when it's clear that Germany is defeated?

That still doesn't explain why large numbers of Jews were allowed into the country prior to WWII--one also has to take into consideration the population of Canada, and the number is indeed quite significant. I'm not sure where you get "turned away far more" from. Did Canada actually turn away many boat-loads full of Jews yet at the same time let known Jews arrive in smaller groups among other eastern European immigrants? Such utter nonsense. Excluding non-believers is not "discriminatory" from Christian communities; non-believers will only try to undermine and corrupt Christianity, and that's exactly what has been happening for some time now. That's exactly what you're doing. And of course when someone subjects your faith to the same rigorous criticism, what is your response? Antisemitism. Well, you can call it whatever you want, but the NT makes it clear who's really right and who's really wrong. So you can make up whatever arguments you want and call people all the names you can think of, it really makes no difference in the end for you. To suggest, though, that the government of Canada was solely governed by Christian values is pretty ignorant; religion and politics don't mix, and I'm sceptical about people who are politicians who profess to be Christians. Immigration policy was largely dictated by secualr economic and racial principles. Again, utter nonsense. Nowhere did I "suggest" that the Nazis "did not exterminate Jews". I'm saying that initially there was actually an attempt to remove Jews from Germany--that means that Jews who were still alive were sent to other parts of the world, and seeing that there were only a few hundred thousand within Germany itself, this could have been accomplished. In 1939, things changed, though, when Britain and France declared war on the Nazis after they invaded Poland to win back land that was, it could be argued, rightfully Germany's in the first place. The declaration of war meant that attempts to remove Jews from Germany were much more difficult to undertake; moreover, with the invasion of Poland, and the subsequent unwanted occupation of the Low Countries and France, the Nazis suddenly had many more Jews on their hands. With the invasion of Russia, this is situation was further exaserbated, which is why in 1942 it was decided to "eliminate" the Jews. I'm NOT saying that I agree with this; I'm just relating how the situation evolved from the Nazi perspective. I've never, ever denied that a mass killing of Jews and other "undesireables" happened; just like I don't deny that other mass killings have occured, ie. in the Soviet Union, the Japanese in China, etc. Well, apparently that's what happened; and if that's what happened, then apparently it's the "kind of mind" that is concerned with the truth. Again, I haven't denied or "dismiss[ed]" the mass killing of Jews and other "undesireables". http://www.pbs.org/wnet/heritage/episode8/...cuments_11.html http://hgs.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/3/365 Again, I haven't denied or "dismiss[ed]" the mass killing of Jews and other "undesireables". Incidently, many Christians were killed by the Nazis, and along with other non-Jewish victims of the Nazi regime, probably numbered in the millions. Sad to say that I have often heard Jews only refer to only the Jewish victims of Nazism. I suppose that could be construed as an "insult" in a way, don't you think?

I don't know anything about him, so I'm not sure what you mean by "attack on Israel from intellectuals" but I'm hoping that it doesn't mean any criticism of Israel, because that's what it sounds like. I don't think that Israel should be exempt from any sort of criticism on how it mishandles its affairs, just as any other country shouldn't. Don't ask me why Israel gets disproportionate amount of attention in the media--I find it rather annoying, actually, since there are much more pressing issues out there--but I don't think it's because the media is "anti-semetic". Quite opposite, in fact. What ever do you mean about "singled out for criticism"? I just don't see it, but again it's probably the result of your own hypersensitivity, not objective reasoning. The western world was mortified--rightfully so--about the intentions of Communism, because it was clear what the consequences were. Whenever the consequences are clear, fear or concern is justified. I'm flattered--you're immitating me. I figured you'd misunderstand it; it was a dig at the Dutch, many of whom were--despite the popular myth to the contrary--sympathetic to the Nazi cause; of all the occupied countries, the Dutch were the most willing to enlist in the Wehrmacht/Waffen SS. And the Dutch people were treated fairly good by the Nazis--it was in the east where the problems were. Name calling is unseamly.

A wasteland? What ties? Actually, Canada was letting Jews in at this time, so if Canada didn't want them then why did they let them in in the first place? I think the problems really started with the labour radicalism of the 1920s etc. which was the result of large numbers of eastern Europeans in the country who brought with them Communism and other radical ideologies. Absolutely unnecessary and untrue. You have no right making such hostile and malicious assertions. Well, I don't think that any country is obliged to accept large groups of refugees; and at that time there was a perception that Jews were linked with Communism and everybody frightened--rightfully so--about the spread of Communism and its subversion of stable Christian societies. I'm not sure about "wanting them dead" but even with the tone of the rhetoric coming out of Germany, I don't think anyone really foresaw what was really going to happen. The Nazis really convinced many people that they simply didn't want Jews in the country anymore; even the Gestapo cooperated with Zionists in getting Jews to Palestine. If they wanted to exterminate Jews, why do that?

Not really, because the ancient Israelites went around smiting other nations, and where did they come from? And when the ancient Israelites were done smiting a nation, sometimes they assimilated its people, so Rue could easily be from one of these outside peoples.

Your brilliance at misunderstanding and misrepresenting other people's opinions never ceases to amaze me. I think if you were to really atlk to members of the Chinese or Muslim community you'd realize just how intolerant and bigoted they are; moreover, the one's that I've talked to don't really seem to consider Canada to be all that great of a place, rather is just a place where they can improve their lot in life and fund their family and lifestyle in the old country. Skin colour has nothing to do with it for me, at least, as I'd love to see preference given to Japanese and members of Commonwealth countries, people who are already rooted in a western style education system and have the ability (or capacity to learn effectively) the English language.

It doesn't matter how young he was, though; Canada is currently trying to expell a handful of supposed war criminals, one of whom claims that at the age of 17 he was forced to become a translator for an SS unit in the Ukraine and never served in a combat role. The thing about Grass is that he hid the fact while being a leading left-wing intellectual; the influence that this man has had on several generations of Germans is immense. Also making the excuse that he was in the Waffen SS as opposed to one of the other branches is lame; the Waffen SS in its own right was brutal with civilians and did sometimes participate in the hunt for "partisans". In the dting days of the war they were also known to gun down members of the Wehrmacht who no longer wanted to fight, execute allied prisoners, etc.

Until I came across that post and his snot-nosed comments, I'd never read one of his posts; whatever the case, the fact that the poster is supposedly "in agreement with [me] more often than not" makes no difference; I don't buddy-buddy with people on message boards because one never knows who they are and what they really think. I'm here to express my own opinions and debate issues I'm interested in.

So what? There is a serious school of thought that humans were planeted here by beings from outer space. During that time there was something that is usually referred to as the "Cold War" in which the Soviet Union was generally accused of unjustly occupying and oppressing the all of the people eastern Europe, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania included. I guess now that almost 20 years have passed since the demise of Communism, it's easy to forget just how critical the West was of the Soviet Union and its empire. I'm sorry, but I don't know what a "people like you" is--please elaborate. I think it is really a misperception on your part, probably because of what you are and how that defines your identity, you are more sensitive to remarks about Israel, and you are more inclined to be biased in favour of Israel and therefore will consider any objective remark about Israel as being a subjective, bigoted attack. Just like your friend Rue, you likely don't pay much attention when I would bring up something about, say, The Netherlands, and how the Dutch after freeing themselves from the supposed oppression of Nazi Germany, decided to go back to southeast Asia and kill 250,000 people in a colonialist war. There are aspects of almost every country's history that one can be highly critical about, but most don't have the relevance to western society that Israel does. Give me a break.

If they live it daily, then it's their choice. It's pretty arrogant to suggest that somehow despite the fact of Israel was created, that everyone should just live in peace and leave Israel alone. I guess it's a quiant idea to give Jews their own state where they can live in peace given how they've been treated sometimes, but when this kind of problem solving just causes more problems, no one has the right to cry "victim" when in fact one has become the victimizer.

Another fact that is lost on certain people is that the state of Israel was created in the midst of these "midevil freaks" because some Jews felt that they had an inherent right to this particular land was even though they lost a war and were expelled 1,900 years ago.