jawapunk

Thanks cyber that was really informative. See how easy that was Kengs? makes me wonder if kengs has even read the bible at all honestly considering people have bascially asked him for his proof since the start of the damn thread.

Also, I am sure they didn't survey any American serving in Iraq either, but that does not mean the results are garbage. Considering there are wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where your troops are serving and shoule have international attention on the great news converage you keep talking about, you think more people would be able to place it on a damn map.

Done reading the survey results? You can apologize ANYTIME. I'll start, I'm sorry you were wrong in this particular case. The survey was legitimate and followed statistical protocols to ensure a low amount of error. Wow, that felt great....

There is another trick on in level 11, it is some island in Brazil so you think it is on the coast but it is near the middle of the damn country to the north. WTF!!!!

Yes Kengs, Please if you would provide me with the passages you are talking about. I know that they are in there, but I don't know where to look. Please post atleast the book and verse numbers or something.

Well I atleast attempted to stay on topic but it keeps getting pushed aside. Yes the sample in theory could include those that are in Afghanistan, that is why it is called a random sample. Of course I am sure they would be within the 31% who could place it on a map(one would hope.) I'm not sure why you are blasting National Geographic so hard. They are afterall an American company...and I don't think they or any other well respected magazine or or journalistic periodical could profi from printing garbage. They aren't the National Enquirer afterall. I believe Time has printed similar surveys in the past. However I couldn't find them on their website. Give me a break with your assed theory on National Geographics survey methods. Before you spout that kind of crap off you shoudl back it up with something at least. That is just total misdirection on your part. Even your namesakes could do better than that. You can "suspect" all you want to, but back it up. Jeez. Sorry about the CNN International, my sister lives in Atlanta and said she couldn't get it. See how I did that though, admit I am wrong like that? Makes you wonder if I might have done that on purpose? Hmmmmm.....tricky. As far as having opinions on Americans and America I'll continue to have whatever opinions I damn well please, just as you seem to have regarding Canada. The last time I checked America wasn't some secret club that you had to be a member to comment upon its inner workings. I have been to the States on numerous occasions, gone to an American curriculum school, have many American friends from high school and from visits. My brother in law is from Tennessee for Christs's sake. By the way, I'll spell it out for you, I don't understand how you can be so ignorant all the time, but I know it is on purpose and you are simply an antagonist. That is cool. Although debate is healthier when some concensus is reached...you don't really know how to do that, you simply misdirect and dismiss. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/roper200...ogLitsurvey.pdf Here is the final report discussing the survey. Sorry to say this but it makes everything you just said about it pretty idiotic.

I really don't understand you Bush... you get caught making crap statements and not reading the survey data then instead of admitting you were wrong you attack the credibility of the survey and that of National Geographic. It is ok to be wrong sometimes...it happens.

That sounds an awful lot like Star Trek TNG where Wesley almost gets put to death for killing flowers or stepping on the grass or some crap. Am I right? Now THAT Civilization was a bunch of homos!

Good job on hijacking the thread, your namesakes would be proud. The survey was completed by Natinal Geographic who have been a well respected magazine for a hundred years or so selling millions of copies worldwide. I'm pretty sure they also understand statistics and that yes an assumption of normal distribution must be drawn to make a statement about a population as a whole. I am also sure that given the level of error they were hpoing for they came up with a sample size to meet their needs mathematically. But if you don't believe them you shoudl probably write a letter stating inconsistencies and demand a retraction. However, they will probably more than happily show you where they got their statistical information from. As far as the international coverage on American networks, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one as I watch both on a regular basis. CNN International (Which you don't actually get within the States) is quality I will give them that, but as for the rest pretty scare other than updates on Iraq etc... I wasn't talking about small regional networks either, jesus....those suck worldwide.

But if I read the Bible back to front and still allow that homosexuality is not immoral or a sin, I am wrong? If I choose to interpret it differently how am I wrong? Isn't that wasn't Protestant religion is all about? And didn't during the Reformation and Counter -Reformation people pretty much damn each other to hell for interpretation? Shoudn't we also then suggest that in a few hundred years or less, homosexuality will be wholly accepted?

I also don't know what you are talking about in regards to news networks, I don't really mention them. But now that you bring it up, the US coverage of world events especially on CNN sucks. CNN International is pretty decent. I get CBC, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, BBC World, MSNBC and a host of other news networks. Liek I said before they might air in the states but we get them here as well. The American networks pretty much cover American news, not that suprising you might say but there is far more international content on CBC and BBC...period. ANd if it is an election year, forget about it.

Wasn't talking about post-secondary scores, never even mentioned them. Talking about public schools (elementary and high) however the survey I used places the USA second to last in front of Mexico for 18-24 year olds which if I am not mistaken is exactly post-secondary ages. See you don't just count the people smart enough to get into post-secondary schools, you count everyone in the age range. So that anyone can become part of a sample. That is how you avoid skewed results, which you pretty much learn in any statistics class. And if people from the ages of 18-24 are that terrible at geography I am willing to bet the ages younger aren't faring much better if at all. Maybe U.S. Americans could help the children of the Iraq. Guess you didn't even read the national geographic article did you? 69% of Americans between the ages of 18-24 can't find Great Britain on a map. Even if you take into account statistical error, that is still well over half. WOW Here is the link again so you can ignore it. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...operSurvey.html

How about Romans 10:4 "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." There are so many contradictions not only from the Old to the New Testament but within each as well. How can someone solidly come out and say homosexuality is immoral when there are statements that seem to make it fine for anyone no matter who they are to be saved as long as they believe in Jesus?

Yeah but is it him speaking or through someone else. Also Leviticus is the thrid book of the Old Testament or the Torah. It mandates male circumcision. Does that mean if you aren't you are also immoral? There are also alot of rules there that regular Christians break every day. Why would one rule be taken so much more seriously than others? It isn't underlined is it? hehe

Now see that's a good start, but I am more interested in the actual passages you are referring to. I just want to read it for myself. Not to sound ignorant, but what is God's divine word and where can that be found? Because does God actually have words spoken in the New Testament or is it merely through people as vehicles?

I actually went to an international school in Jakarta Indonesia. It was American curriculum but also had the I.B. program. I went to school with around 350-400 american kids and noticed that many of them were forced to take American History to get into colleges back home and that AP classes in that regard was Advanced American History. This isn't to say there weren't Americans in my IB higher class, but there were only a couple. Please tell me all about your "world Leader" classes, I am fascinated. I am not saying that these subjects are not covered but given very sparse attention which is why as the question given to Ms. South Carolina implies, Americans are in general terrible at geography. So bad in fact that many cannot find their own country on a world map. And her answer was telling as well. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...operSurvey.html This article says that most countries do poorly on geography but that the U.S. is almost illiterate in that capacity. Please do not skew my words, I am not saying all Americans are idiots or that you do not offer classes in world history, geography etc. I am saying that American classrooms place far more emphasis in American topics than international ones. This is true of Canadian classrooms as well but it seems that test scores are higher here in those areas.

It seems to me that there is an split here of opinions which is very much the same as in government. I'm sure this will have to be voted on and is not set in stone. If you feel that strongly you shoudl definitely contact your Member of Parliament and make those feelings known. Hell get a petition drawn up. And if nothing is done still then you always have your vote and those of the other petitioners in the next election for pay back. I for one do not have a problem with it either way but do think it is a nice gesture and a way to reward the years of hard work that these men and women put in. I also think the longer you can keep corporations out of amateur sport the better. That is half the problem with the Olympics as it is.

Well as a Newfoundlander I would be completely hypocritcal to say farmers shoudl not be subsidized. However, just as fishermen are subsidized, it has to be done wihin reason. The federal fisheries finally realized the cod fishery was dead and ended it. If the cost of farming is spiralling so out of control then perhaps it may be time to place some type of moritorium(spelling?) on that industry as well. I can't see that happening though, I think just as fishing is part of the cultural fabric of the maritimes so too is farming/ranching out west on the prairies. It is a very difficult thing to give up an industry with that kind of importance which is why Newfoundland has adjusted slowly.

I am actually not homophobic and consider myself accepting of gays but I can't stand Lance Bass and old Elton John was much better. I don't think liking music written by a gay has much to do with accepting gay relationships or not. Trust me, you are not going to make a dent in Kengs armour with an argument like that.

You are going off the deep end here. I think the point of the post was that there have been a multitude of American opinions heard regarding Bush and his presidency. We as Canadians do afterall get all the major American networks and their news as well as CNN etc etc. I thin the poster simply wanted to hear what some Canadians thought about the Bush administration. You have to admit there is a far more isolationist practice in America in regards to what news they cover, what is taught in public schools and general international knowledge such as geography, world leaders and world events. That is not to say we don't have ignorants in Canada but I believe Ms. Teen Sotuh Carolina proved this point the most eloquently. And I told another poster to stop it because he actually wasn't adding anything to the posting, which is pretty much what we are now doing as well. I am not sure of any irony being displayed here, I don't think I professed that ONLY America has citizens who were ignorant or self involved. Why don't you go start a new posting about Bush's presidency for Americans to comment on if it has riled you up that much.

Your right, I'm an idiot. I was doing it in my head an skipped a number, as in 0-100 is 1st, 100-200 is 2nd but then i did 300-400 is third instead of 200-300. OOPS!!! And I even did a History Minor, Ha! But yeah I understand it spread but was definitely a minority religion and quite small until it was endorsed by the state.

I know Africa is seriously the only thing screwing me...well that and somem of the cities in Russia.

Yes damn that evil government for trying to create a program that gets kids off their asses. Our kids have the right to be portly couch monkeys.

Backing up a bit. Can anyone justify why being gay is immoral? Or is it simply because there are a few vague statements in the Bible? Where do these statements go to God hating gays and that they will go to hell? Are there any passages that claim to directly quote Jesus as stating this?(I know I said direct quotes cannot be trusted in this but I am intersted in the mindset and where it comes from). Also as homosexuality clearly isn't within the 10 commandments, is it gods law that is is wrong or simply homophobes projecting their own values upon a belief system?

Wow this topic has turned so fast into a Biblical debate my head is spinning. Kengs? you are right about the quick spread of Christianity, I shoudn't have said that. I meant simply in terms of numbers because it did not become a potent force until a few hundred years after Christs death when it finally became the official religion of th Roman Empire. That is still not to say that there was a majority, simply that the Emperor took it as his religion (on his death bed). Jefferiah, I find it difficult to counter what you state. It is true that I cannot dispute an earlier version of the New Testament in written form existed. However, scholars have stated that it was passed orally until finally written. This is not to say as you have said a version was recorded. In either case I would still surmise there was error in many of the first person accounts the Bible holds because of the period between the events themselves and the time it was put to paper. Also who wrote these versions? Was it the apostles or someone else? Were the apostles able to read and write? Did they transcribe? This error is further pronounced when you take into account the many translations from an oral tradtion in Aramaic and Greek. Finally written in Greek, then latin then the various European dialects. Then you have to also take into account transcription error as there were no computers/hard disks /printing presses. Also I am not discussing the dates of copies but originals and also scholars don;t only use modern bibles to surmise when the older biblical books were written. The bible wasn't the only thing being written, especially within the Roman empire, who kept records and census's and a hoard of other written works. My head is still spinning but I think my original point was that with all of that how do we really know what Jesus thought about gays? Anyways, you make some good points, atleast more convincing than anything kengs has said. Oh and just so you know 10th century B.C.E. actually refers to 1000-1100 B.C.E. Hope that helps that earlier discussion.