KO2

YOUR FICTION, LIKE YOUR LOGIC, CENTRES TOO MUCH AROUND YOURSELF. COUNT THE NUMER OF Is, MEs, MYs. IT'S BORING BECAUSE OF THE LIMITED PERSPECTIVE, AND UNORIGINAL CONTENT. NICE TRY, THOUGH, FOR A SHORT TIME. FICTION WRITING REQUIRES PUTTING YOUSELF IN OTHER PEOPLE'S MINDS, WITHOUT JUDGMENT. SOMEHOW, I DON'T SEE THAT AS A QUALITY YOU POSSESS

M.Dancer, you must be a lawyer? I maybe talking in a broader perspective such as making a natural act, like making farting criminal, a law against nature over which our courts should have no primacy. You have to understand that it is currently, and always has been, until recently for humans, that every species on the planet has no laws against consuming any substance which it finds. No othe rspecies including humans had a problem with substance abuse until the God fearing British found a way to enslave a population by creating the first international drug cartel. Once their own citizens began to react to it several generations later, the government realized what it had created and logically tried to stem the tide with harsh legislation. Perhaps that was the wrong course, judging from the results? Why, if you believe humans are god's creation, would he need corruptable governments to save us from what he decreed all of nature should follow? The Bible says He gave Adam and Eve the choice of good or evil. Why is it that today's Bible thumpers have to second-guess God?

Just being greatful for living in a society could lead to social atrophy and a complacent backward society. As anyone will tell you to forever advance as a society, as in the reflection we see of nature, not to become putrid with stagnation, a true citizen who is concerned for the future of his offspring will actually try to make things better. Only myopic ideologues fail to understand the forward flow of everything. I have come to the conclusion there are three different inherited bioliogical filters at play in our species of Primates. Left filtered 25%, right filtered 25% and non specific/mixed political pursuasion 50%. It is my considered opinionion that you and I will never leave our relatively filtered pespectives. Someone here has a quote about needing both wings of an airplane to fly. Here's my quote, "The right-wing tendency of the human population connects us with tradition, the past, to the very first thing that wiggled, While the left-wingers are our only connection with the future through the wondrous monsters of new thought, genetics and abilities we haven't yet dreamed of. We need both and the impartial/more rational center, if our species is to enjoy a continuing history"

So why are you here in this forum? This is where people who are discussing something that is a very pressing problem to our society. Are you just annoyed with my arguments and wish me to shut up? I'm just getting started and I believe that I'm in the right place for an intelligent convesation of this issue. Also I believe that the reason you are getting annoyed with me is because you have been unable to hold your own in a rational argument. What a shame such a person of sober thought resorts to asking his debating opponet to shut up. I call that surrender. If you don't wish to hear the truth on this subject, follow your own advice and go elsewhere.

Great fiction! Looking forward to read the "The Green Goulag" by jefferiah. It promise a shifting scenario painted with wide ranging comparisons. The way you transfered in one great leap from my example of illegal laws, makes me suspect stronger sibstances than at work within your chemistry. There seems to be a vindictivenes that is beyond all reason which springs forth from you. Maybe the "substance" within you is ridgid/atrophied perception, brought on by excessive reliance on its own befief systems for its self justification? If you can't chill out using prayer, or calm reflection, you might try the soothing effects of a joint of medicinal pot. That's what I choose to do, and that should be my personal business not yours, not the government's, not my girlfriend's, pure and simple mine and mine alone no matter what dangers it may pose to me.. As to the dangers it may pose for society, let us not hide our heads in the sand and claim this and that, lets test for the parameters we must apply for our safety concerns and thusly be done with it. Why cry boogie man is in the closet all your life, why not open the closet door test for impairment and develop legislations to mitigate the dangers? Why criminalize everyone, develop organized crime at an exponential rate, increase lawlessness and juvenile violence, crime driven addictions, all to bypass a simple test of motorskills and cognitive functions? Just let me roll up another one now, all this one-fingered-fingering, is cutting into my consumption rate! My head needs some more THC to fend of these frivolous, feckless attacks. In doing so, though, I get to refine my arguments, broaden my scope for the constant battle of oppression that us downtrodden potsmokers face daily! Hopefully I become more and more eloquent as I resist the urge to always paste someone elses words negatively, in lui of developing my own positive arguments. It's a burden, consuming all that herb, holding up rational argument while doing so, but somebody's got to do it, otherwise you guys would win, eh! "Roll me another one.... Just like the other one....."

Well the whole debate wouldn't be necessary if we did a real test to see the results of a comparative study. What a great way to show how dangerous it was to drive impaired on alcihol as we all watched those drivers consume more drinks and get poorer and poorer in their driving skills. What could it cost to do something so dramatic as this for pot? It was when the obvios slapped me in the face that I and many others gave up drinking and driving. Not only would it prove your point, you would forever be able to refer to it definitively. The entertainment value of such a televised event alone wouldmake it a lucrative proposition to air it on TV. It would be a commercial money maker, settle the point of impairment once and for all, and give people a documented view of exactly what happens to your ability to drive a closed course as the volunteers smoke reefer after reefer. There is a reason why we won't see it though, no one is brave enough to try it, for fear the results may be in doubt as to supporting the hypothesis. Where are the results from the Coroner's offices supporting your contention that marijuan affects driving? Please don't go into the question of whether they have the data. If they don't I'll get a lawyer and get rich. An "illegal-law" is something like Adolf brought in against Jews. An example of an illegal law that might cause a real stink if implimented, would be if they criminalized farting in Public.

I agree this is is not a profitable venue to explore as we diverge from the major issues and become insultingly personal. Apologies go out to those I might have offended. Sorry. Although sometimes I think that I am perfect the evidence doesn't support it. I resent the fact that because this totally illegal law has been forced on us for reasons that we are only dimly aware of, and continued to be enforced by invented lies contrary to the established evisdence, they are on solid footing. The perch people sit on is one of the established oppressive law, which really is not a point at which the evaluation of this situation starts. There have been many laws that were later found to be counterproductive to good social order. As a society matures, technology and social structure evolve, it is important that people grasp the real issues from a considered overview, rather than a simple trained response. There is no indication anywhere from the evidence available, by close observation and study, that the impact of our prolific marijuana use has a negative social effect that isn't directly the fault of the law itself. You prohibitionists feel that because I enjoy chronic use, that I don't wish to see a safer society with less drug use. Let me explain it to you, I want a future where there is not a landscape with two factions with guns and colours, offering fraudulent choices, trampling the human rights of my grandchildren. The safety of Canadians is at stake in a future where lawlessness and the proliferation of violence, drugs, and instability forcing rightwing reactions that may lead to a police state. All because we fail to solve a simple problem by repealing the law. In Canada, I repeat, the law came before there was any recorded incidents involving marijuana, in fact it was many years after the law came into effect that we saw a few incidents of use. The entire proliferation of the current criminal empire-controlled, violent drug market and all of the associated problems have burgeoned despite the law. Some would say because of the law. If that is the results of the law, yet we don't see a severe effect in any other areas, health issues, family violence, a rise in marijuana related driving deaths, a significant loss of production, significant social disorders of any kind unrelated to the laws, why not look closely at trying it without the law? When "High" flying cross country on my flexwing, at every turn in the flight, because soaring is an opportunistic practice, decissions had to be made. If below you there is a sea of trees and coring a thermal in the wind-drift will take you beyond reach of a landing field, there comes a point of no return where a wise pilot must make the correct decission. No matter what he feels, how great his committment to the new direction, if he is wise, he will choose to abort the path that could lead to his demise. This decission is reached by evaluating the evidence and then using rational deduction, adding up two and two should not involve how you feel about it. If the evidence so blatantly points to the fact that some course you are following is terminal, it is wise to change course and go to plan B, rather than blindly forge on. My goal is to have a personal free choice with no stigma or criminality attached to making it. The hope for our society is that we become more peaceful, lawful, productive with less crime of all types. You just don't understand the trauma I felt for my tennants when their vehiicles sustained hundreds of dollars damage, so the some junkie, crackhead, can grab a toonie towards his hundred dollar per day habit. He will to sell herion to your kids if it gets him that toonie. By making it lucrative for a criminal to market the substances we create the market. If that junkie got a presrciption filled out by the taxpayer at a cost of perhaps $5.00 per day we have saved society from tens of thousands of dollars of property damage, or fifty dope trans actions to possibly your or my kid, or home invasions. This junkie would now be attached/ dependent on the state, not organized crime, for his direction. In this setting he becomes harmless to society. From this controlled vantage point he can choose his options: self medication and perhaps being a ward of the state forever, or hope and light at the end of the tunnel from programs designed to help him. These are his personal choices whether there is a law or not. By getting rid of the law we stabelize society and control the future, not as it is now, Organized Crime controls the landscape and we react to their innovations on an always shifting wasteland of social dangers.

And you don't see the lawlessness, organized crime, violence all around you caused by Prohibition? Obviously if you think that smoking pot only affects me you are incapable of close observation. Calling people nasty names and never offering a hint of your own reasoning attempts is the mark of a person who has no creative options of their own. Sometimes the only nasty name that comes easily to an empty mind is the one they are familiar with from having accepted it as their own. These people, easy to recognize from their crude unsupported statements, are always trying to define life according to their limited visions of what courage,achievement, is. What would one understand of courage, having only ever been brave in cyber space? Always recognize that the negative thrown at you, is the one the flinger feels the most insecure about, themselves.

Coots, that is exactly the crux of it. There is no possibility of enforcing these laws without causing a shift in our social values. There can be no fantasy of hiring the police that would be required to hammer compliance from our society without becoming a police state. The only way we could have compliance, is if enough people felt that way. The public has repatedly called for decriminalization/legalization policies in all surveys asked, some reaching 65% consensus. That means that the Citizens of Canada are at the status of having their government elected by less than 34 % of the people, try to impose a law that is not wanted. This dilemma is the product of a dictatorial attitude in the highest level of our current leadership. Harper is imposing something that will make Canadians less safe and which they don't want. Is that the defenition of the kind of lawmaking we want in this country?

Winyriver, it may bother you severely that THC stays in my blood but then all you have to do is not use it! Lead is accumulative and its effects are proven deadly, so what! maybe we should test for lead and criminalize those in whose blood it it is found. By your reasoning we would all be safer then. Are you young and just not up to adult reasoning speed? If so I apologise as I thought that perhaps for being impatient with you, I thought we were equals in maturity, experience levels, and reasoning experience. I can be an unreasonable guy sometimes when I get on a tangent, so I truly am sorry if I've been berating a child.

Coots, I like what you said, but still think that you are not getting a full grip on the problem here. "Nonetheless, some people have a considerable weakness for it and would spend their whole lives buzzed if they could afford it. I doubt they are performing to their greatest capacity in that state, and they are likely spending too much time "inside their mind" and not with their families." Now the real problem lies right here again, let me point it out. Are the couch potatoes that are contributing to America's burgeoning obesity problem performing to their best abilities? Who's business is it, anyways, to judge who is performing properly? Those who would set themselves up as such 'experts' are truly the dangerous ones, in our society. Not pot smokers.

There are some people, indicated by the totally spoon fed propaganda they regurgitate, that will never believe that 2+2=4. They believe, that is the crux of their position. Reason will never interfere with it, no matter how sweetly you spoon feed it to them. It is precisely that fact that you must always waste your time to refeed them the stuff, that gives them away. I believe that the first qualification for gathering knowledge is the you must seek it. To date, I have yet to meet anyone that learned a thing, unless they made an effort to seek it out. Someone who spouts idiocy continuously, reveals themselves to be an idiot to me. I have no problem calling these people their proper names and feel as free to denegrate them, as they do me and have for 4 decades. If this moron-appearing blogger really wanted to seek the truth, it is out there, easy to find. This guy is probably cleverer than you, or I, guyser. They just want to wear me down. And they do get my goat, occassionally. If some of these people wish to hold my ability to make a living over me for practicing my freedom of speech, I would not be happy working for them anyways. Maybe I'm filtering out those idiot employers who don't deserve my talents, because they would oppress me for my ideas. Everyone is different. It is important to me that all people express themselves with pasion and their input, as the feel it. I'm tired of the homogenized look of mass marketing all ideas in a prepacked strategy that has no room for individuality. That is the real reason for this oppression, people are araid that something different might come about. The age old fear of the one that is different. I resent your attempts to play god of reason, and authority here, Guyser. Your way is exactly the way of the oppressor. We must all be the same, united, under my rules.

Guyser, you still don't get it. People with real courage do, F*** the law of oppression where you might fear employers and all that crap. Some people don't like to give the oppressors the control through fear of what they can do to you. There are people with real courage that are always at the forfront of change. Your way has been the reason why the oppression continues. The times they are a changing. The rule of idiots has taken us to the begining of human and species extinction. People are getting pissed righ the heck off with this costly, dangerous rule by morons. It is time to stand up and be counted not hide because big moronic brother wants to have you afraid of them. Worry about your own course in life, Guyser, and don't presume everyone is satisfied with your boring soft- spoken revelations. Human's come in a wider spectrum than you know of.

"But I dont think I want you as my pitchman. The other side entrenches when you speak" Who the hell appointed you kingshit, guyser? Or is that just you spouting out, like I do too? What kind of idiot presumes to speek for everyone else on a forum?

OK buddy have your say, but I certainly don't suffer fools well whose idiocty has been personally oppressing me for 2/3 of my lifetime! You may wish to beg for these blockhead's approval, not I. The other thing about me being the reason for other people not posting here: first, are you omniprescient too? Second the closet tokers who might be afraid to enter a forum where the truth is being passionately spoken should develop some metal. Don't blame me with lame excuses conjured up because you feel a bit threatened by my blatant honesty and true self experienced facts and understandings. If "they"-those who you propose to speek for-are afraid of saying anything in such a dynamic battle between reason and plain Propaganda, it could be because they have nothing to say. 40 years I heard this bullshit and have had it inside and out. Does every fool believe his crap is fact because someone told them so? And if so must we respect them and their reasoning skills? I've been ruled by morons who have labeled me stupid long enough. Patience doesn't come easy.

"Marijuana is a drug that people can become addicted to. The fact that it is illegal reduces the number of people willing to use it. Making it legal will cause the number of users and addicts to increase. This cost might be worth paying if it was possible to eliminate the crime." Marijuana is the least addictive and harmful of the recreational drugs. Your theory doesn't hold water. The UN gave the figures! The highest rates of use are in the countries with prohibition laws' Holland where Marijuana is quasi legal has one of the lowest rates of use and dropping. Do you think that because you repeat bullshit often, it will become the truth? Or can you not put one and one together?

"Banning large operations would give us the worst of both worlds: the increased social costs from more widespread use and organized crime to support the smugglers." Are you daft Mon? What gives you the impression that this is not happening to the full extent necessary to provide the current market right now? You talk as if we were contemplating moving from a model that is working to one that is worse. Just how does one explain the obvious to an argumentative blind man? Windyriver you are a true dogmatic, letting all reason flow over you. Your arguments are incohesive. They are they idiocy that has dogged your country at every level and will finally be the foundation of your demise. We are talking a benign substance which would add benefits to your society if you switched from alcohol to pot in every area. The rest of the hard drugs are only as prevalent as they are, because they are a product of crime driven addiction. Take the organized criminal element out of it by prescribing whatever anyone needed. Then the next generation is not hooked in order to pay for this generations addict's habits. What is your problem? Just plain stupid from going straight too long? Or are you making money in the drug trade? Or you don't want to see less addicts and suffering?

Sooner or later the Americans will have no choice when all their money is gone and there is no more room in their jails. Then in order to pay their war debts to China they may have to reverse their strategy and actully push drugs to make the money to pay-off their Chineese masters. If only we could get on with building that fence to keep everything bad out of America, and Americans in?

It made sense 4 decades ago before had the huge increase in global organized crime. And today it makes sense to repeal all prohibition laws in order to cut organized crime out of the loosing equation concerning lawlessness caused by prohibition. Criminal Federal law is not the way to win at personal human health issues, which addiction to any substance, or detrimental habit basically is. The only reason Governments got involved was because of fear mongering from temperance movements. Once the laws were in place they serve a variety of oppressions, including race, economic, and social. They certainly have been proven to work contrary to their stated aims, a safer society. There can be no other way.

Only a harper you are, always ready to pounce with idiocy, never any facts. Have you not done anything in your life except live vicariously in other people's as a critic? Got no life of your own to base experience on. Maybe you should stand up in Iraq as a true parrot patriot, another propaganda opportunity from your moronic masters that requires you to march to their tune. I'm proud of the way stoners like me will eventually prevail over morons. We will have repealed prohibition just by consuming tons of pot and overgrowing the crappy government! Oh what fun that is! Things that complainers and critics can only criticize and complain about, while we make it happen. Let me just fire one up right now and have a good laugh at the laws and those mindless minions who love to be told what is what, because they can't figure it out for themselves! Good morning America! Get a grip on reality, leave a little enjoyment for the rest of us. Boy is that BC pot ever good! Maybe its your inferior American grown swag that causes your stoners to be stupider than us Canadians. We do amazing things while high and have the documentation to prove it. How bright is the average American anyways? A few guys with boxcutters took you down quite a few notches, while you spend trillions on your military. Perhaps we should send some BC bud to your government so that they might find solutions for the quagmire that they have created, oh great ones? Now you've got something else to work on and criticize. Have fun! And how do I know there will be no facts forthcoming from you?

Yeah, I'm a chronic toker. To judge and dismiss my life, because of that, as you do with millions of other normal, worthy of not being criminalized human beings, is blatant bigotry. The most recent scientific evidence is that it may make you more perceptive in certain areas. (You expend the energy to look it up. I get a lot of info direct from the scientists being interviewed on CBC radio As It Happens. I have a great memory for facts and catch every nuance of the conversation) Here is another personal true anecdote. My life provides my truth for me, I don't need to go further than the reasoned lessons learned in my life for the best examples of truth. http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/03/356379.shtml You have to imagine that I was smoking a joint of good "train-wreck" when on the TV comes the commissioner of the RCMP, the Federal Police Force up here in the land of Cannabis. He, The Federal Minister of Public Safety, and also the Federal Minister of Justice were all trying like hell to link the tragic murders of 4 RCMP officers to Pot Growers. The Canada Hate Crimes Act states in part B that; no person shall use the Public Airwaves to generate hatred for any readily identifiable group. This is also exactly what the broadcasting act states. We have a regulator of our airwaves the CRTC. I emailed the CRTC while still under the influence (actually after I boged another big one in celebration) and then changed broadcasting history in this country. I could legally complain as a member of the "Readily Identifiable Group"-- marijuana producers. I gave them the file number of my production charges and by law they were bound to act. Dopey stoner that I was, (boy was I high!- hillarious with ironic laughter when I saw that I had snagged them,) I none the less did it all without legal advice and any experience in the law. Also I garnered a retraction of his statements and an apology from the Commissioner of the RCMP in 3 days. (He was breaking the law)(in another case in which the Commish was forced to apologize for his actions it took a team of lawyers three years to do it.) I also never needed to spend a cent on a lawer to get off, with 30 hours community time/ simple possession, on charges that would have gotten me 25 years in the states. No one else in this country of 35 million people saw this blatant crime happening before their eyes. Not a single stone cold sober person, judge, lawyer including the two lawyers who were Federal Ministers, were on the ball enough to come up with the obvious observation, that a doper high on pot could spot in an instant. Now my friend those are also personal facts (annecdotes) recorded in history. So call me an impaired stoner all you want, but the evidence I have created in my life personally, does not define me as being impaired, or stupid, or even a couch potatoe, or any of the labels you like to hang on those you wish to denegrate. If I was impaired cognitively, judmentally, at the time, just what would you label the rest of the entire population of Canada as? Asleep at the switch? I wouldn't mind a single fact supporting your contentions, if it comes from a proven authority, even if it isn't yourself, please.

Facts http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n825/a07.html

Well so far I'm up in the facts available department but if you wish to see these facts read them for your anal selves. http://www.cannabisfacts.ca/banners.html http://www.mapinc.org/ How a good speller like you can't find the facts when using a search engine is so easy remains a testismant to your capabilities. Still haven't seen one single fact from you dopes. I seem to be the only one that you quote at length, nothing else but your unsupported allegations and your angry rants at me and the truth.

It is your bigotry and judgemental attitude that's sad. Continuous judgement, crap and not even a single fact to support your bigotry. Rant and rave as you will, possesed by the holy spirit of ignorant self-righteousness. You must be christian of excellent spelling capability, sure of your correctness because you spell so well and god thinks that you're special.. The sermons of fantasy that you preach are ful of your blessed craft, fraud.

Widriver: "The coroners have no information about how many high drivers there are because drivers are not routinely tested for dope today. You cannot use the lack of data to make your case - you need scientific studies that demonstrate no impairment." Where do you get such bullshit from? They are not regularly tested for marijuana. An absurd statement that is pure fiction. If marijuana were such a threat as the government has made out for 3 decades now, you would think that it is their responsibility to document this and change the laws accordingly for the safety of the population. This they have done I assure you, otherwise we would be able to sue them until their eyes bleed. It is the government's responsibility to take the safety of a population into primary concern. Unlike you spouters of lies, the government has the truth available and won't release it because it would prove marijuana to be innocuous, contrary to the propaganda. The facts, old Windyriver, are that every driving fatality victim's blood is checked for every compound currently on the street and at your pharmacist. To do anything less makes no sense and is irresponsible.