madmax

Canada does not have one of the worst systems in the world. That said, my quote also points that we have an excellent health care system when properly funded. It isn't and hasn't been since 1989. Our system has at times been the envy of the world. It has decidedly went down the ladder. All political parties have examined socialist systems of Sweden, Norway and France. Provinces have all looked at it as well. Currently regardless of the system, Health Care funding in Canada needs to be restored, and that means the Federal Government has to step up and be a responsible participant in the Canada Health Act. Now, choosing your poison of a Socialist Euro system, which isn't that far of a step from our current system hasn't been chosen by any province. So, sooner or later, one province will try this avenue, but it has been all talk for 20 years. It is not necessarily cheaper either, but may provide other benefits. Unfortuneately you will be lucky to keep the current system and upgrade it, let alone make MAJOR changes to adapt to a European Socialist System. We have recently choosen a cross between a British and American system. It was a short term fix in the UK and now is proving to be very costly. The pressures from the US will make it difficult to maintain our current system let alone adapt a European system. US companies are parked on provincial government doorsteps to sell every item and run everything possible in the entire health system. The FTA will undermine any competitive advantage that publicly run establishments have over corporately run establishments. Once you open a market, you cannot protect it because it does things cheaper. Cost is not a factor in the FTA, only competition. Free access to the Market. Some services will be more cost effective, but other services will suffer terribly. If Ontario is any indication, the food in many of the hospitals is neither nutrious let alone edible, since it has been contracted out to the lowest bidder. So, I don't lose any sleep over change to a Euro system but I don't ever see it happening in Canda. I believe that the only way to prevent a UK model with US pressures is to maintain the current system we have, force the Feds to get back to 50/50 in spending on Health Care vs the 80/20 it is today (roughly, people can find the actual figures) . It isn't like the Federal Government is short on cash, they are holding the Provinces (OUR) money.Certainly a move toward greater federal funding will relieve alot of pressure on the Provinces. If it doesn't happen, you are going to see a US style health care system, and there is little any political party of any stripe will be able to do anything about.

What did you do at the DND and why are you no longer there?

Provinces do fund their own system. On top of that, if they want the Federal Government to give them money, they follow the guidelines of the CHA.

Holy Crap man, Just got warned about quotes in another thread by the monitor, you say its not that bad. Well look at what you just posted? There was no need to quote my older post in your answer to Saturn. I have been advised to monitor my quoting, and I am thankful for that information. You ignore it. You post quite frequently, so it is not like you are a newbie or in a rush, because you have alot of time to post you can use that time to edit. If you are going to post this frequently, I would hope you show more respect for the moderater and the people whom allow us to use this forum.

So you work to improve them or walk away from them. No. of value? There's precious little evidence of that. You have badly misrepresented my quotes in editing my words to suit your needs. You don't need to change what I said to make your points. Particularly when you drop the very words I say, and then put the very same slant in your own answer, that I had in mine. You are arguing with me in the quotes, when you actually agree with what I have said in the original posting.

I don't think Layton has made a miscalculation at all. Dion has actually taken the position that Kennedy held, which is the same as Laytons. I am certain if Harper had a crystal ball, or a better grasp of the situation, he would not have been suckered into extending this failed endeavor. Dion has avoided nothing except the position his party put our troops into. 2,200 troops supporting a mission that is better served by SAS, JTF2, and US Spec Forces, has been a failure. This isn't 2001. Its nearly 2007. There are over 5 Million Pashtuns with a code of Pashtun Wahli that has been going on for thousands of years. We cannot kill them all. We are on search and destroy missions. These are not peace keeping missions (keeping two sides that want peace apart, (Cyprus) or Peace Making (tilting the balance so that one side backs down (Kosovo). It is seek out the enemy and kill him. I hate to say this, but unless you intend to declare war on Pakistan, you cannot win. Pakistan, working with Karzai, who is a Pashtun, and supported the Taliban when he handed over his mujahedin groups over to them in the early 90s are the only ones whom can put a lid on the Pashtuns. The Taliban of today are not the Taliban of the 90s. Afghanistan tribal code is more fluid, then simply calling any Pashtun whom hides another Pashtun a Taliban or Taliban supporter. Regardless, Afghans have fought these kinds of wars, and this one is no different. If Karzai cannot secure enough tribal support, from the Pashtuns themselves, and not the Sodomizing, Drug Dealing back stabbing Northern Alliance, then he cannot last as a leader in Afghanistan. Either the Pashtuns or NA will Kill him. The Afghans have to want us there, each mistake we make, each child killed, makes Karzais task more difficult. I am sorry is never a good enough answer. Tribal code asks for vengence, and Pashtuns will extract that vengence, and our goodwill will have been spent. we've been there 5 years and have 2 years to accomplish something that will last. The mission will be a failed mission if it doesn't change, change drastically, to securing the country and providing the security needed for Afghans to lead themselved. We are there now, and cannot leave a vacuum as there is still time to act. However, we will have to leave at some time. Everyone knows this and our commitment is to 2009 I believe. So there is 2 years to get this mission right. What Karzai says in public to maintain Canadian Troops there is true. He needs them there, but he doesn't need them hunting down the Taliban, and wasting resources on search and destroy missions. You know we screwed up extending the mission, when the General is talking about getting Naval Personal and sending them to a land locked country to drive vehicles around in an Assymetrical War in which the Vehicles are the target of choice for the Pashtun/Taliban fighters. Yup, just what someone in the Navy signed up for, to get killed driving a truck. Luckily this stupid idea has been put on the back burner for now. That said, If you support this mission, as a former military gunner, I suggest if you are of enlistment age, to support the mission with your life. Today, Reserve Force Personel are serving are country and some have been killed. Reserves used to be the weekend warriors. You can take time out of your regular jobs, and sign up for part time duty, or you can join up now full time particularly if you are unemployed or a CEO. I also think Layton was on the mark when the NDP passed the Veterans First Motion. This motion passed in the house. One of the things it did was Eliminate the deduction from annuity for retired and disabled Canadian Force Members- ensuring that veterans were compensated fairly for their injuries. It eliminated Unfair reduction of SISIP long term disability benefits from medically released members of the Canadian Forces so that Veterans are fairly compensated for injuries in the line of duty. Essentially guys going over to Afghanistan and coming back with missing limbs, were getting the shaft. This came to light, and I believe Canadians Recognized the sacrifice these good soldiers were doing. That they represent us and our national pride overseas. So it was only fair that we took care of our own when they returned. Only the Conservatives voted against this motion. It's easy to keep them over there, but there is a responsibility to look after the wounded when they come back home. No, I think Peter Stoffer and Jack Layton have the concerns of the Soldiers and the Mission front and centre.

You don't have to insist. I am certain this has been pointed out before. Health Care is the domain of the Provinces. Health Care used to be in the private domain. People couldn't afford it. Obviously, one Province at a time started dabbling in Public Health Care to lower the costs. The Federal Government, starting with the Chief, wanted to see these systems across Canada, but each province was doing there own system in an add hoc manner. Eventually, the Canada Health Act was created. It has a criteria that Provinces have to meet to get the money. They could always opt out and run Health Care on their without the federal cash. And since Paul Martin, he has reduced Transfer payments to the Provinces so that the Proportion of HealthCare cash has continued to go down, while the tax revenues continued to rise. Decrease Services and give the tax money away to pals not provinces. All Provinces had to look for ways to abdicate their responsibilities to the private sector. Unless the Feds increase the money, Provinces are forced to either delist services and let the private sector do the work with Cash or Private Insurance, or just go to a Private system fully, and opt out of the Canada Health Act, and stop receiving all transfer payments. The Canada Health Act is just free money for the Provinces. Harper could increase the transfer payments back up to their traditional levels, or he could scrap the act. We will either have a universal health care system or we won't. We have an excellent system, when properly funded. Governments will have to determine what that system is.

Emissions USA 6746 EU 4030 China 3650 Russia 1880 India 1228 Japan 1224 Indonesia 904 Canada 740 Mexico 686 Carbon/person, Canada is close to the US US 24.09 Canada 23.45 China 3.05 EU 10.74 Mexico 7.04 What's this mean FIIK. Regardless, We signed a treaty, and I didn't hear Ambrose say that the conservatives were abandoning Kyoto. She didn't handle herself well at an international conference, but, I hear alot of people talking here as if Kyoto wasn't ratified, or that the Conservatives have pulled out of the treaty like the US did. But as far as I know, they haven't. Kyoto may well be flawed, so are alot BS that we get like the Lumber Deal, the NAFTA deal, (undermined by the Lumber deal), the War in Afghanistan, etc. Bad deals are a part of life. I see alot of people arguing that Global Warning is a false science. I see people stating that Kyoto is flawed. I am not a scientist, but I do know that if the Anti Global Warming people are WRONG, then we are in for a rude awaking, if history is any measure. If the Anti Global Warming people are RIGHT, then under Kyoto, we have only cleaned up the environment a degree or two, and our out of pocket some money. Kyoto is a treaty, not an equality deal. Like Free Trade, it ain't fair, it is a Treaty. Implement Kyoto, which in environmental terms is doing something, and then work on the again in an international forum or officially pull out. Any scientists here? Climatogists?

Who is the largest contributor to Green House Gasses? Where do we rank in the list?

People like Saturn and Geoffery are not able, or maybe not at the maturity level to be able to do this. I on the other hand, have backed all my arguments with logical fact, .... "Learning to work with the 'establishment' is a sign of maturity". - that's the truth. .......And Personal Attacks.

I think you make alot of valid points here. I don't have the answers, I have opinions. I don't think they have justified a $22,000 raise. And I am sure you have seen my opinion on the large salaries of CEOs and their job security. That said, the people whom could answer your question and attempt to resolve those points, are the very politicians we elect into office. Essentially, The Liberals and the Conservatives have decided they are worth it, and Peter Kormos, and my guess the entire NDP would have suggested not to endorse a $22,000 raise. Parliment has spoken. I am dissappointed in my own MP for this decision.

If you are an auditor, then it was foolish of you to state that a CEO makes double the money of a blue collar worker. No he didn't use his own card. When a worker uses a swipe card to come into work, if they use another employees card, they are fired. You can say he didn't steal the money if you like, and you can say the expenses were business oriented if you like. So, you say he didn't do anything wrong, but then you say he made a huge violation and should be fired. Sounds like he did do something wrong. As for blue collar fraud vs white collar fraud, give me a break. There is crime in both arenas. It is porportional. Seems you are an apologist for Big Fat Corporate Payouts to incompetent CEOs and Corporate Criminals. A CEO that runs a company into the ground, shouldn't be sent on his merry way with a $28million dollar severance package. A CEO that operates on insider trading, (Who doesn't), and knows that the bottom is going to fall out, and SELLS out, while all prior actions were made to drive up stocks regardless of actual company perforance, ie ENRON, WORLD COM, NORTEL, is a criminal. I think that is clear to anyone. You are an apologist for the needy. The poor CEO with 3 million severance, who may not be able to find a job, because he should be fired, because he made a bad decision. Maybe he shouldn't be a CEO. You wanna fire more people, because the controls are lax. Go ahead. What kind of severance are you offering the auditor:-). There isn't a union out there that has an agreement, where an employee is fired for fraud, theft, or crime gets a severance package, not for one day, let alone a few months. Once a position of trust is broken, the employee is FIRED. Adios, and if lucky, isn't charged by police. No arbitrator would ever back up the statement, you made with regards to unions. No Contract supports Crime, Fraud or Theft. A common severance package for decrease in work is 2 weeks per year. Some unions, have a top up in times of layoff where the company picks up the difference. These contracts are in the minority. But nowhere near, the situation where the exec works one year for $800,000 and then gets sacked, and receives another 4 years of pay. CEO can't find a job in four years? You worship of corporate entitlement. Maybe you will be accepted in the club one day. But right now, you are continuing to make weak arguments, with regards to bad decisions, excessive payouts, and crime. Your defence of Crime is that others do it. I am finished commenting on this topic anymore, you can have the last word if you so choose. With regard to the MPPs salary. I agree with you completely. Although I have heard them argue that they are CEOs of the People, because they handle Billion Dollar portfolios. Later.

I tend to disregard or disagree with about 99% of what MikeDavid says. However, short of multiple posts, links that have weak or misleading information, and some very poor spelling and grammer, I believe in free speech. He may only know one aspect of an argument, and be too thick to understand a solid well spoken sentence. He may even comment on subjects he has little or no knowledge of and act like an expert. However, there are lots of us here like that. I read alot of BS and mis statements and have caught myself, getting and era or date wrong when working on a post. While MikeDavid is trying to ram Immigrants are Evil on virtually every topic. I am certain there is a moderator here whom can refocus one to the facts. Other than that the thread ends. You also don't have to comment on posts that are completely stupid, or ignorant. There are lots of silent lurkers here who can see the forest through the trees. Heck, MikeDavid didn't even vote, and he hangs in a political forum. But not Voting isn't a requirement to be here. You don't have to be liked to be here. So, relax a bit, I tend to believe only the more polarized tend to post, and I just can't help myself from commenting. It's all good.

Tone down the fonts.

$102,000 to show up with a pulse? Being an MPP is not a difficult job. Just the Liberals and Tories choosing to sneak in a christmas present for themselves that will be forgotten about by Sept.

Canada cannot force the US to do anything. Asking the US to do something is another matter. Depending on your political capital, one can call on favours. With US paranoia still at an all time high, Arar getting into the US will be one dealt with in the US.

Canada would never FORCE the Americans to remove him from the list. Lots of people are on those lists. You'd be surprised. But on the whole, considering the scope of border travel, its not that many. We don't let certain individuals into our country, and they don't let certain people into their country. Lifes a bitch sometimes, but its their country.

They are making roughly $80,000 and will get a $22000 raise. $102,000 If they wanted to make it 3.2 % nobody would be talking. $80,000 + 3.2% = $82,560 This isn't about % increase for the MPPS it is about keeping up with their federal counterparts. It isn't about an increase in their work, their services etc., it is an argument simply based on whining about how little they make compared to the pork their federal cousins get. It's not a strong argument, unless you are a Liberal or Conservative in the legislature.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Workers of the world, unite! Don't be silly. Corporate execs are there for a reason, they've got alot of value that a blue collar worker doesn't. Otherwise, the blue collar worker would be in their chair making twice the moola. "Corporate execs are there for a reason" That reason is NOT to Steal!! You are condoning corporate crime and fraudulant activity? You don't believe crime should be punished? A list of corporate crooks, those whom have stolen from companies and gotten away Scott free or with large severance packages is OK for Canada, but not the United States, where we have seen corporate criminals brought forth to face the music. And two big highprofile names caught south are Canadians. So if you are telling me that the Corporate Execs have alot of VALUE that the blue collar workers dont. Well I disagree that this value should include THEFT and FRAUD, which is what you suggesting. BTW, an MPP in Ontario makes $80,000. The Corporate Crook made $800,000+++ per year along with his 3,000,000. The Number of Blue Collar Workers in the $80,000 is a minority, most fall below this figure. Corporate Execs don't make double, in this case you are looking at 10 times the money, plus expenses plus buyout. Many execs make more. There is a responsibilty when in this position. It is a position of power and trust. When the trust is broken, they should not be rewarded. Regardless of this fact. Corporate execs need to face Jail time for crime. When one is STEALING they are not working for a living or earning it because they are execs. They are STealing, and treating this theft like an entitlement. Workers unite my ass. It's crime, and we are typical Canadian Suckers not to do anything about it, other then coddle them. You wanna praise corporate execs go ahead but don't the defend ones whom steal, or your just a patsy.

Well, for this year it will be $22000, that isn't removed the following year or the year after. So the average raise is 25%, until the choose to fatten themselves up more. The average joe is doesn't receive a 25% pay raise. I was in Woodstock yesterday, in a small restaurant and I could overhear a table of 5 railing against these greedy bastards.

I'd be very, very surprised to see Rae run.Liza Frulla has said she won't run again. Andre Arthur has cancer and he may not run. He's said he would run. Your right though, I think there is a good chance he won't. Bob Rae would only win a seat in the most orange riding in Toronto (or an already very very Liberal riding... he won't make a pick off the CPC). Kennedy can win any seat in Ontario. Who's this third guy dobbin is talking about? Kennedy cannot win any seat in Ontario. That is a very broad statement. There are many safe Liberal seats and some competitive seats he can try, but there are seats that certain parties hold and are very likely to remain in unchanged, even when the incumbent party runs a lame candidate, and the challeging party runs a dynamic Candidate. It's just the way it is.

I just can't figure out why in the hell anyone can justify a million and a half dollar salary for a management position. Seriously... executive wages are just rediculous... the best part is when you F^ck up royally and abuse your power you still get your golden parachute... wtf!? If a construction worker f^cks up they are told not to report back to work. Your last paycheck will be in the mail... thanks for comin out. They don't get 2 years salary. Hell if i blatantly abused corporate policy i would expect to be out on my ass and thats it... If you are expecting to be compensated well for your work, you should expect that high standards of workplace output are required. If you do not meet those expectations... soo sad too bad. There is a severe double standard with regard to 'class compensation' blue collar work gets shit all. White collar gets the golden parachute... nice to see equality for all. Well, these White Collar Workers, or quite Frankly, these Corporate Executives, don't work for a living. The live on entitlements, and then they STEAL. What else could you call it. Blue Collar workers, Construction workers in particular, no what kind of cut throat competitive industry they are in, and that there isn't alot of room for f(&( ups. But when a blue collar worker is caught stealing from his coworkers, he will get dealt with. And it won't be with a parachute on the 7th storey. :-).

I believe NDP house leader Kormos was stating just that when he got tossed:-). I wonder what union, these conservatives and liberals joined to get these kind of pay increases. The average Joe is lucky to get a raise, and if they do get one it is in the range of 1.5% per year. Poor Poor Liberals and Conservatives, barely making ends meet while the serve the public on our tab. Fiberal McGuinty, and John Tory same old story. Pork pork pork. Man are these guys Sleazeballs.

That's odd, it's the most popular form of government around the world. I'm not concerned with Libia and Iraq's system. ???? I would like to move to a US based system that promotes democrocy and governs for hte poeple. ????? The Parlimentary system is ok, but it's too easy to take advantage of. It takes a group of people in the house that govern for the good of the country. We do not have this right now and over the years certain poeples have found out how to exploit this system for self gain to govern to their own agenda and not the people. Hmm, I think you are mistaking the intent of the US system vs how it actually works in practice. It is very well exploited by lobby groups. You overrate the US system. Looks good on paper not in practice. Even with the Republicans holding the House and the Senate and the Presidency, with all the chicken nodding going on, this years past house was viewed as the house that didn't do anything.

. I agree. I live an Islmic area and my MP is Omar. The Conservative runner is a Sikh which does not represnt the ethnic or religious backgroud of our area so he had no chance. Thus I didn't even bother voting. Same thing happened with other people at work. The only way to bring democrocy is to force voting as a civic responsibility like paying taxes. You didn't bother to vote? My view is, if you didn't vote, then stop whining. You got exactly what you voted for..... nothing. It is the easiest thing to do. It is a civic responsibility and yet you think you need to be FORCED to vote? Man, I wonder what a foreigner thinks. Look at that raised in Canada fellow there, to lazy to vote, but not to lazy to blame me for his lack of civic duty.