madmax

Unemployment hits 15-year high in OntarioThe sheer number of Ontarians who are out of work has reached 670,700 – the highest level ever.....The province also experienced heavy losses in construction. Since October, the number of Ontario workers in manufacturing has tumbled 14 per cent and fallen 9.3 per cent in construction, StatsCan reported. May's job losses come on the heels of a surprisingly positive employment report in April. That month's net gain was largely attributed to a jump in Canadians opting for self-employment, a trend that some economists have dismissed as "disguised unemployment." I think Bryan.... you need to get away from party talking points...

Not exactly. The Economy of the USSR was in collapse (Look at the US today) and they made a painful choice to revert to capitalism. However, most people know that Military Spending in trying to keep up to the USA Miltary Spending Machine was behind the fall of Communism in the USSR or it might have continued (Limped along)on to this very day. If the USSR hadn't collapsed, the USA would not have chosen to invest so heavily in Communist China these past 20 years. Regardless, USSR Companies exist today as they did in the past, many mafia driven from the underground economy of the coldware era, and many profited from Government corruption and contracts. Those very companies in Steel and other resource industries and Russian owned are thriving very well in a capitalist environment. IIRC Privately run Electricity is nothing short of a pyramid scheme tied to a blackout. NICE!!!! As for smarter and better run companies??? I have seen some really smart and well run companies purchased and destroyed, liquidated, you name it, in the name of short term profit or eliminating competition, by less well run and slightly dumber corporations. I believe you believe that smart companies survive and dumb ones don't. My view is that a sucker is born everyminute, and the fact that Nortel has been destroyed as a functioning company ever since John Roth took it over and turned it into a corruption machine and jumped ship with a fortune in stocks. Now this company has been milking the capital system for a good 10 years. What we do recognise is that everything changes, and many things must come to an end. There are certain elements of the public sector that if left to the private sector result in such greed and abuse it was be scarey to think of. Todays corporate elites have been the worst of the worst that I have ever seen in the past decade. I cannot recall a time when so much greed caused so much harm on the economy.

Thats great news. Hummers made in China. And now the Selloff of SAAB after 20 years in GMs hands. And Saturn... designed around the Japanese model. Its nice to see where our Billion $ investments are going. Maybe they will revive Pontiac.

Maybe the Church had a direct line to a better financial advisor as well as spiritual advisor. Seriously, I think the Bonuses are a huge copout, but I see the bean counters are all running to the defense of their entitlements. Ignore the Millions, but pay attention to the pack of gum.

If there is one, it will be supported by Ignatieff.

So really what you are suggesting is that these men did better then millions of people and investors with their own Private Pension Plans that lost 10s of Billions of dollars.

No, I am aware the Liberals took 46Billion in EI surplus. The Conservatives took 8 Billion.

Don't hold back....But Geoffrey, I expressed nearly a year ago that GM was taking Government Money and diverting the funds to build enterprises around the Globe. I also said that GM would likely declare bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a way to screw people. This is normal business. You might want to fall for the Pension diversion, but that is nothing in the grand scheme of globalization and bankruptcy law. That said, what you call an investment, I consider peeing into a lake to see it rise. I don't expect 20,000 to 30000 jobs to be saved, I expect that there will be 70,000 jobs lost. Perhaps a fraction of the remaining 20,000 jobs will remain in Canada. The rest of the work is to be relocated. This is about helping GM. There is no intent to repay the monies. Only 1.3 Billion is to be repayed over 8 years.Enjoy.... People that build vehicles are lowlifes. But not the company? Look you are a pretty nice guy, decent with a sharp pencil, but that money is better in my pocket then yours. So... how do you like Corporate Welfare.... It is a Traditional Conservative and Liberal scam that has been going on for a Century. This is just one figure of many, and more interesting because of GM applying for Bankruptcy. This is considered good business. What Nissan plant? Toyota and Honda are not getting "bailouts" because they are not "bankrupt" or applying for bankruptcy protection. Do you think they are NOT getting corporate incentives and financial help from the Federal and Provincial Government??? Tsk tsk tsk. Silence is golden in times like these. Do you hear a peep from Ford??? Toyota, Honda have cut back enormously on staff including agency staff. At the end of the day, you have to sell your product. Cuts are occurring in these plants thus the bar is lowering relatively quickly. However, calling people that go to work everyday lowlifes is pretty low for you and out of character. I agree, it HAS NOT SAVED a JOB and never has been the intent to save a job. THis is a transference to give GM time to finish its relocation of production to Mexico and China. Now some to the US as well as they have discovered they need some of these jobs back. However, I disagree that this has transferred jobs from Toyota to GM. The fact is that Toyota, and Honda located in the region of other Auto plants because of the technology, skilled workforce, and support system for auto industry. It is because it made a hell of alot of sense to build here. However, Toyota is now shitting bricks because they built there new plant here at a time when every other manufacturer has been making plans for massive downsizing and relocation of production. No matter what you might think, Toyota has no interest in seeing the Ontario Automotive Industry collapse in Rapid fashion. That said, why should the auto industry stay in Ontario when Industry is Leaving Canada as a whole? There is no industrial Policies, and the Conservatives and Ontario Liberals are about the worst with regards to the manufacturing sector. They wish it go away, but that doesn't prevent them from propping up corporations without job guarrantees. Yes, and your point is...... This is how large global corporations work. Its your government that is into corporate welfare. Gotta keep this American Behemoth going.... And only laughing at the turndown a few short months ago, but now its important. If you think that the Oil Industry doesn't receive Government money then you are naive. However, It needs to be pointed out that when it became apparent that the Canadian Economy was in jeapardy, the CPC said everything was fine. When policies could be drafted, they drank draft and pretended that all is well. If you believe in Free Markets, let those companies fend for themselves, instead your asking for these companies to belly up to the trough. Which is it, or are you jealous? When a policy was required, the CPC answer was TAX CUTS and when it was stated that Tax cuts don't help when you have no profits, it was ignored. It was ignored until the BANKS said they wanted DIRECT FISCAL INPUT from teh government and were the first in line for Corporate Welfare. We can't make the money on our own, just give us the cash please.... Its not because its in Alberta. Besides, the Government got out of the oil industry selling out all their shares in Petro Canada. The same will happen for GM. Its business not Nationalism or Regionalism. ITs pork. Its NOt about jobs or a strong economy. It is the weakest last minute action from a pathetic and economically challenged government with a doofus as a finance minister and remember.... Stephen Harper is an Economist... Bullshit.

The Pensions are monies borrowed against by GM thus taking monies from a non secured fund in a bankruptcy situation. If the pensions were secured in a Bankruptcy situation, much like the banks are a secured creditor, there'd be one less thing for you to blow a gasket over.

Well then, that is ALOT more money then today. Take a $10 job, and $400/week, get your 55% that is hmm, $220... $9 more then you made almost 3o years ago. Up until January of 2009 you could make 25% of your claim. Which is yeah about another $65... Considering you didn't stay on it in the Hey day, and your Boating Team friend probably didn't compete for the entire 30 years you have known him, I can't say as there was a chronic problem, and you say it was a great deal, but you didn't stay on it. I really cannot say that the 500,000 people recently laid off decided it was time to kick back and collect EI. Being it is a great scheme and all.

I forgive you.... and I have to agree with your analysis. You are often self righteous.....but its good to have some other self righteous company every now and again.

Time for a bump......

I had been waiting (lurking) patiently for an answer....from August1991... to your question. One of the overlooked things is the Federal Government Rubbing their hands with things such as the GST on resold goods such as Automotive Vehicles sold privately.

That's silly talk.... go away.

It was a failed attempted hijack and August1991 had the answer before the question. Public Pensions have NOTHING to do with Public Expenditures. Now, onto the real story. Apparently the Large Salaries are not enough for these bosses and they need their entitlements. And Mr. Harper wants them to keep those Bonuses. See, Prime Minister Harper can be nice when he wants to be.

If we have to have Constitutional talks, use that time to Abolish the Senate and save us money.

Get ready for dealing with all the Linemar fallout after a few years. There is no such thing as working stablity in a place for 20 years. It is now normal to have held 3 to 5 jobs in a 2 year period. In the midst of this can be gaps. Welfare is for when the person working for many many many years, finds out that EI does shit, retraining finds one well trained and educated, and that of those unemployed, the numbers continue to go up while jobs are hidden and few. Then, the long time working employee sells home, downsizes, downsizes again, liquidates Or is bankrupt (Pick one), and after using up available capital, maybe trying self employment or starting a small business (See bankrupt again), discovers there is no EI and no home to hang onto. It is welfare and once there, yes, that means you have hit a low, however, most people will avoid using Welfare from pride, and their situation gets worse and worse until they either break down and apply or something else more tragic occurs. Having watched some of the effects of the downsizing of the past, a couple recession and then this one, there is no difference in human behaviour. Applying for welfare is 10X worse a situation then applying for EI, and the abiltiy to continue level or forward momentum is possible while using EI. Once on Welfare you are tainted and labelled. It is also one of the first places that Second Career Graduates go, when trained and no jobs are available. EI is a system of coverage and is normally strained at this time. EI reform has allowed massive surpluses to be squandered by the very businesses that got a free lunch from the government and large entitlements. When a recession such as this, and we are NOT near the end, as two well informed MLW posters have indicated .... then the possibilities of the in and out of work scenario are likely to continue for a few years. People with 20 or 30 years of consecutive service have been in businesses or industries that did not get hard hit by the recession of the 80s and 90s.... however, the circumstances that they face today are the same as those who felt them in the 80s and 90s. The only major difference is that the companies that aren't going bankrupt are leaving and the Jobs are NEVER coming back. Here is a place for those 20 year workers from Guelph... Hand them this job http://www.timhortons.com/ca/en/join/index.html Its hard work, but very rewarding.

Good thing that it is only your opinion... Many people laid off then find another job, only to be caught in another downturn and even less opportunity for another position. Maybe you live a sheltered life. Oh, I see, you are old. Most people don't know what UI is, and more people are unable to claim EI. M. DinosaurDancer Seriously, you do not collect EI if you get fired. And if you do get fired, finding your next job is a pain in the ass. Many management staff get "Fired" and often with a handsome golden handshake (Not always, and a good lawyer helps). That is often what they are living off of. Anyone else fired is Screwed....without a case, so EI won't be a factor 9 weeks, 12 weeks or 20 weeks or 50 weeks. Your friend sounds crooked. Many crooked people believe in false entitlements.

Geoffrey..... You are scarying the hell out of me.

It's crap that MUST stop..... Write them NASTY LETTERS!!!! If the NDP sent them to my house I would. I have been BOMBARDED with close to a hundred CPC Government Paid Propoganda pieces, and now I am Receiving Liberals ones even though I live in a Conservative Riding. I can't believe the Liberals made this an election issue only to join in the corruption. Ok, I can believe it, and same goes for the NDP too who have joined the abuse club. I'll take your word for it, because I know you live in a region that has an NDP base of sorts. This is a pet peeve of mine... I'll take your word on it. Cross your fingers...

Understandbly... Incompetently

The Liberals are using and abusing government monies with propoganda flyers much like the Conservatives did in the last year heading into their orchestrated election. Two faced Hypocrisy. I am against both pre election adds and the abuse of government monies for Political Party Propoganda. The Latter especially as its monies that should be used for real services not Party Propoganda.

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I am with you on all your comments. And yes you are technically correct with the link... however, I just happen to be in the liquidation loop and know alot of what is going on. However....You are not correct all the time.... I know many people who worked well over 26 weeks and DO NOT qualify. I am helping some through the appeals process. THere is some irony here as the same situation for two individuals has been handled differently. One the way you suggest and the other the way I have stated. It has been denied, then rejected in 2 appeals processes. You are not automatically entitled to EI if you change your job and find yourself out of work regardless of the number of hours. I know people think this is the case, as did myself, except that I continue to meet people who require help. And if you want to know who is getting hurt it is middle management. If you are in Middle Management and do not get a golden handshake, you are at the mercy of EI for monetary support if you don't locate other work. Obviously EI is SFA compared to normal wages but it is still better then a kick in the teeth. These people are not lying to me or making up stories. Nor are they lying on the couch. I know quite a number that got caught up in the Ford Debacle and relocated to run the new shift to build the Flex Line only to find that the line was cut before the start of the 1st official shift. Thus they "Quit" their job and unfortuneately the new job didn't materialize. Tough Luck. Same is true for much of the middle management that jumps when the ship is going down. A neat trick is to lure management into your plant or operation that is going to be liquidated. EI doesn't pay you if you change your job..... although you can appeal and be successful. So far I have seen this take as long as 6 months and no less then 4 months. EI being dispenced has creaped up to 12 weeks. This is hardly a picnic. Same goes for if you collect EI and do land yourself another decent job. You are paying virtually all that money back so it cost the government very little to cover your butt for a few months, compared to what you have paid into it. Severance... No trips, don't get on a plane and if you take severance and then claim EI, you will be labelled with Fraud if you took a trip while collecting your severance. Increase you time without EI and declare yourself unavailable for work. Then you get lots more attention