madmax

no Bryan, the ones I have with "Conservative" on them, are actually government paid mailers....Not all of them, but a good many. The Conserative Mailers are in Colour, the Mailers from the MPs sent into the region with are Black and White. Again, I had thousands of them... It was quite embarrassing, and no doubt an abuse of the system. Yes, Having stopped because of a majority, doesn't make what you did when you had a minority ok. And even the ones without hte Conservative logo, are still PURE PROPOGANDA... Constant Election Mode, paid by the taxpayer...

That is my understanding to of how the system used to work and how it should work and how it should be interpreted. You couldn t have said it any clearer/ So.. Has there been an increase in abuse? That may be teh question. Interns are complaining, some are using words that exagerrate the abuse. Slave Labour is a throwaway term and is not helpful to the argument. THere has been a recent increase in "slave labour" found throughout Canada of recent, but it has not been Interns, its been, immigrant, migrant adn foreign temp, victimized by human traffickers.

I recall from 2006 till 2011 being carpet bombed, sometimes 2 to 3 PER WEEK, of these mailings from the Conservatives. Of the Hundreds upon hundreds I had collected, numerous ones had CONSERVATIVE written on them. I even got some from the no gone and forgotten Rob Anders. Well I got lots from him. I started keeping them until I had 3 BLUE BOXES Full. They Used to attack DION, and have 3 empty boxes and one CHECKMARKED box beside Harpers Name. All with some Conservative Campaign slogan. and some accusation against the Liberal Leader, be it DION or later Ignatieff. I believe I started or engaged in a thread regardign this carpet bombing and misuse of the mailings. Since about March/April of this year, only my Conservative MPs have arrived and they are no longer as partisan as i have seen in the past. I am sure I got a few of these old mailers kicking around, I had so many of them, litterly.... I thought maybe it was like a game and you had to collect all the different slogans and then you get a free choclate bar .

NFLD really seems to eat up leaders of all parties... must be some rough and tumble politics. I really liked Danny Williams I liked that Little women that the NDP rebelled against. I didn't know much about Dunderdale, but apparently a bitter pill... So, why does nobody seem to want to be premier of a HAVE province lol

Very Strange, considering Tim Hudak and the PCs prevented local candidates from challenging their hand picked Openly Gay Toronto residing candidate. A former MPP and Cabinet minister and having the help of Gays in the Federal Caucus. This Gay thing is such a non issue, with regards to the piss poor PC campaign and its mathematically challenged platform of hope. Perhaps you missed it, but Rob Ford Wouldn't vote for Tim Hudak , because he supports Gays and Gay Pride, and the Flag. Ironically, I am not sure if Rob managed a vote from rehab, but he doesn't get to select Tim Hudak, he would have to vote for Doug Holiday, and well, Doug Lost... to the Liberals ..... The PCs may have WISHED for a Balanced Budget, but even common folk, could figure out, if you got a deficit, gifting RBC, the Insurance Companies a 30% tax windfall, while the rest of us eat cake , doesn't reduce a deficit, or for that matter create jobs.... Infact, RBC having just got caught red handed firing people, and hiring Foreign Temps, while making billions in profits only reinforced the pc platform was an idealogical dream and a commoners nightmare.

The NDP took 2 Seats from the Liberals. How many seats did the PCs take from the Liberals? The NDP took seats in Working Class Ridings, All 3 seat pickups were in working class ridings. The NDP lost seats in Toronto ridings where the Liberals were targeting their seats with a campaign that said... IF YOU WANT TO STOP TIM HUDAK VOTE LIBERAL!!!! The counter to that attack was if you want to stop Tim Hudak, vote NDP.... Unfortuneately for everyone, the PCs ran a SHIT campaign with an incompetent and mathematically challenged goof who appeared DANGEROUS to everyone , including many PC voting Tories.... When Tories campaign like radicals or in this case (batshitcrazy radicals), you get a radical response. THe public made the decision, not the NDP and the Public mindset was to STOP HUDAK... and then they had TWO CHOICES... A party mired in corruption...promising and promising and promising... or a party proposing pragmatic realism that was affordable compared to fantasies of two parties, a million promises vs a million jobs, however, that didn't connect with the voters who wanted to STOP HUDAK!!! The people chose.. and considering the smear jobs of the media against the NDP, I am surprised they did as well as they did. And considering the BOOSTING of the RIGHT WING MEDIA towards the PCs, its clear, NOTHING could save them, not one wanted to believe the cheerleaders... Andrea will stay on, She gain the NDP vote by some 170000 , came 2nd in more ridings then anytime in the last 20 years. Growth of the NDP is still going up. Certainly its dissapointing, but one could argue, if the Tories didn't run such a delusional campaign with a poorly developed radical leader, that perhaps people may have been more open to expressing their choice for change in government instead of circling the wagons to stop the Lunatics from running the asylum.... The Tories are dead... they are going to contine to shed ground, even with a new leader... The Libs.. they are going to be a tough nut to crack.. .. although, I don't believe they have learned anything, I just believe people ahve hardened up to the idea, that the Liberals are going ot take a billion here and an billion there adn waste it... THe NDP will have to claw there way back into Toronto... but will be in better position then the Tories who appear in all circumstances to be the barbarians at the gates. I recall hearing one person comment regarding Sun Media... who would ever believe a newspaper run by Separatists.... Fact is, no matter where I went, people were talking more about stopping hudak, or not being able to vote for him.... Now we have the unfortuneate situation of a Liberal Government, free at the helm.. the PCs cried for 3 years , starting the very day they were defeated in 2011 for an election. They got what they wanted... You have to wonder...after losing all those bi elections, if that wasn't an indicator, that the people had no interest in the PCs.... Then when it came down to the real deal.... Doug Holiday lost directly to the Liberals... It had nothing to do with the NDP saying stop hudak, the NDP on the ground where hearing what everyone was talking about... Stop the nutcase... So if you are going door to door and the vast majority of people are saying they want to stop the nutcase, anyparty would say the same thing... Vote for Their party.... You want to stop the NUT, vote NDP, Vote Liberal, Vote Green, Vote Liberatarian.... They all heard it. And thus the Liberals slip slided to victory..... again... Why did Tim Hudak come off like a radical nut to the public....? Just look at the platform and you have your answer.. So... The NDP took 2 Liberal Seats How many Liberal Seats did the PCs take...?

"Harper Government Spending more money on vets then ever" Lets see the proof...

A change in government is needed. A house cleaning has been long overdue.

Conservatives seem to be driven by entitlement What is interesting is how quickly they turn on one another when exposed. I also like the deflect that those Conservatives are "NOT" conservatives, lmao.. sure tell it to Conrad Black.. another entitled Liberal lol.

Not saying you are wrong or right, merely its a choice the Provinces elected officials make based on the will and desire of the public. Alberta still has 4Million people to go before equaling Quebecs Population. And Alberta has major infrastructure challenges to meet that growth. When Alberta can sustain 8 million people is yet to be determined. So, to be clear, I agree with what you are implying. but the outcome remains unclear. As Albertas wealth is in natural resources, which no matter how long they last, there is a finite timeline, which lower taxes will not cure nor will higher taxes.

LMAO... great reply westguy.

Federal Taxes from Quebec support Farm subsidies in Alberta. All Canadians pay into the same pot. Regardless..... it is also untrue that equalization allows Quebec to afford services that are impossibly generous for Alberta. The equalization formula tells us that the Alberta government could collect twice as much revenue as Quebec (including its equalization payments) if both provinces had identical tax rates. In other words, Alberta could easily afford tuition rates lower than those in Quebec, and plenty more besides, if it was willing to pay for them. Can we eliminate this “injustice?” Sure. One option is to shut down some of our industries to bring economic output and unemployment rates closer to the national average. Alternatively, all Albertans could take a voluntary pay cut to bring our salaries in line with those of other Canadians. Or, we could ask the federal government to implement a special “Alberta” set of tax rates—so that we can pay lower taxes than all other Canadians to compensate us for being richer than the rest of the country. The bottom line is that Albertans contribute more to confederation because our economy is strong. Someone earning $100,000 pays more taxes than someone earning $50,000. Alberta is simply home to more 6-figure salaries. Because of that wealth, the Alberta government could afford to provide social services that would make Quebec’s seem miserly by comparison. But Albertans have chosen a different path. If Quebecers wish to keep tuition low, enjoy $7-a-day daycare while paying high taxes that risk discouraging economic growth, that’s their decision to make. Besides, would you want to trade places? This brings us to another misunderstanding about equalization. Its purpose is not to ensure a uniform level of provincial government services across Canada, but rather to ensure that provinces have the ability to provide comparable services at comparable tax rates. Each province can choose how much—and on what—to spend, but they have to pay for those choices. Yes, Quebec has more generous social programs than Alberta. It also has taxes that most Albertans would consider appallingly high.

How much Quebec receives in transfer payments and how much it is in debt/ deficit are mutually exclusive. Quebec could run a budget surplus and still receive transfer payments. "Fiscal capacity and fiscal need are not equivalent to measures of fiscal revenue and expenditure, as making them so would induce perverse incentives to subnational governments to reduce fiscal effort." Transfer Payments have been explained many times I don't intend to repeat either myself or Smallc, who has posted on this topic for many many many years on this forum regarding transfer payments. No Province in Canada would be considered a 3rd World Country

Great discussion, makes me happy to see the MLW posters attack this subject with healthy debate rationall thought and yes opinion too... Tim G. I agree with both your posts, and your link uses the same data i was viewing from stats can, in the report. SmallC, yes 2009 would skew most anyones data, however, I must say, Ontario will continue on a long slow steady decline, unfortuneately as it has been economically rudderless for years and I don't see that changing. Westguy, No I am not suggesting that Quebec is the only Province that makes "excessive contributions" your words. I am saying Quebecers Contributes monies to the feds, no different than any other person/corp in any other province, and it receives more of its contribution back. Thus all Provinces technically are the same. And I would only disagree that without the tranfers that Quebec would become a 3rd world basketcase. And to one of your other comments. the return of Transfer payments are NOT unfair, unless you personally believe that Canadians are not equal. A Canadian individual and corporation pays federal taxes regardless of the province they live in. Guyser2, You are wrong, just because, I cringe whenever we are in agreement.

I will edit the above later lol.. night shift brain...

Total Transfers to quebec Transfers 9.333b SpecifcPurpose Transfers 6891b This is where your figure comes from 16billion MInd you here is Albertas Tranfers transfers 1.2b Specific Purpose 3.05b As there are other transfers which never get teh publicity as much as the that are based on the two highest provinces. regardless Total quebec payments to federal government.. $30Billion from the above listed federal taxes.... No Province receives more from the Federal Government then it pays into the Federal Government. However some Provinces Receive MORE of there monies back from the feds via the transfer formula which works similar to our own Personal Progressive Income tax formula. Thus if I may Thus people/corporations in Quebecerx can pay almost as much in federal taxes as Albera when its booming, but would receive more back. This is based on the population size and services required provided by the federal government in order to maintain the federation....which you already know. You have been debunking the Transfer myth, for years. So here its is in laymans terms. Say I run a business and you run a business. I make $300,000 in sales and you make $300,000 in sales. We both paid 50% on our taxes ... However if one business has more expenses and writeoffs it receives more monies back in tax returns. Transfers are like a tax return and you know how the formula works regarding the transfer and provinces. Now you know how much income each province sends the feds..... Regardless, the transfer payment red herrring is ALWAYS going to be brought up, cause.... Its easier to believe the myth then explain the truth and how it functions. And its easier for people to deny the truth and sell the myth if its of a political advantage. Thus, when Danny Williams got the Feds to STOP taking Oil Revenues, like the deal in Alberta...he wanted the same deal....He knew NFLD would jump to a have Province as the monies would go directly to the province and they could provide the services without the aid of federal transfers. Had these monies continued to go to the FEDS, NFLD would continue to be protrayed as HAT IN HAND getting their monies back in transfers. Previously, Ontario had the wealth to Pay the feds and provide services to all its population without the need for transfers. And thus the Federal Government had been the NET BENEFACTOR from the richest most populated province. Thus, when one looks at WHO has WHOs handout, one can argue that the Federal Government is the one with its hand out and not the Provinces... But thats an argument for a different day.. In the meantime, the PQ are falling in thepolls..

smallc, Question #1 How much does Quebec, Quebecers, Quebec Corporations Pay directly to the Federal Government in terms of Income tax Personal Tax Corporation Tax Mining and Logging Tax Consumption tax General Sales Tax (Yes its a different category and not the same) Gasoline and Motorfuel Tax Payroll taxes Natural resource Tax and Licencing Investment Income.

You need to learn the difference between Debt and Deficit And quite Frankly, the Conservative Record while in office is nothing to write home about considering it ran the highest defict in Canadian History, while at the same time , very successful in massaging their message of good fiscal governance. and 2015 is not here yet.... lets see where we are at when the numbers roll in. It may be their first balanced budget, it may not..

There is little doubt, he knows Hudak will lose the upcoming election and then run for the leadership of the PCs.

Interestign logic that is.. That logic landed us TOYOTA . At that time, the Auto Pact only allowed for Cars made in Canada and the US to have special Export Import Status. In order to take advantage of that situation, Toyota made plants in both Canada and the US. Particularly during the REAGAN era, he put up HIGH TARRIFS on Japanese goods, which did two things. Japanese Motorcycles were made in California to avoid the tarrifs, and of all things, Harley Davidson arose from that ashes, as until then the Japanese had almost wiped Harley Davidson off the map. Sir John A Macdonald brought in the Tarrifs and he built a nation, and changed it from a Resource Export, exploited territory of some 350 years and created a country on what today would be considered unsound, uneconomic measures. But it forced foreign Capital into the nation. Today we direct Foreign Capital away to take advantage of the tarrifs. Yes by my logic you are correct. I stand by it. but it would not be the Yukon, as automanufacturers locate in the regions with appropriate, resources, skills, support and labour force , something the Yukon does not currently have.. They would likely locate in Ontario , where steel is still in abundant supply and the plastics CNC industry is still technically sound.

There is a difference between changing technologies with regards to employment restructure and Trade Agreements which create employment and capital relocation. One takes advantage of Technologies, the other takes advantage of 3rd world labour costs, environmental and health and safety costs. One is exploitation , the other is technological advantage. Considering my Nephew just spent 6 months training South Koreans to replace his 1000 coworkers in Ontario, their skills in CNC, Machining, Nuclear and Other Hydroproducts etc.... are to be eliminated... The way other Canadian Companies have responded is to use Foreign Labour "Temporary" ... which is why I am surronded by more affordable Chinese Electricians... Either way, a trade deal with a Foreign country with lower, wages, .. in the range fo $60 to $800 per month depending on the skill or trade is going to have direct impact on canadian labour rates. This should not suprise anyone, and in some cases , the clowns cheer. However, Until everything else in Canada balances itself, give it 50 years... we will shed both wages and jobs , while raw resources requiring LESS comparative techonology and human labour prevail. On a Brighter note, my other relative is heading off to china to work. As that is where the work its, wages aren't high , but overall costs are also lower.

Explain how this statement affects trade deals in a positive/negative or neutral manner. Its an interesting quote, the discussion could go anywhere. Here is my diversion... Regardless, Unbalanced trade deals can override a technologically superior country or give a country unearned access to a market. As long as people are involved the trade will never be free, fair or balanced. The current trade deals strip Canada of its technology and reduce Canada to an export of resources nation. There is strategic reasons for this that Global corporations and foreign countries can exploit. Its like a throwback to pre 1867 trade.

LMAO, it affects all autoworkers, but Bryan probably doesn't know that many autoworkers are temp agency workers , fulltime, much like in other countries... so yeah, it will affect those employees as well, and my guess this may also have had an impact on Chrysler choosing to stall investment in Canada, as it would likely have another risk to market share with lower foreign imports from SK. Its a tough business to be in. Bryan probably also doesn't care about all the spinoff production, support and consumption of the local economy. But taht doesn't surprise me. Also, for ag.. I expect some gains but just as many losses as more food production is moved to asia... Seems we can't even compete with operations full of mexican labour , they still move offshore ... not sure if SK would gain from this however... don't know enough, lol... just cars and electronics

Hmm, I think you need to figure out HOW a taffif works. The purpose of a Tarrif is to attract investment INTO your country, and that is why companies like Toyota, Honda, Suzuki brought operations here. To avoid the tarrifs. Hyundai, preferred to pay the tarrif instead going for the huge capital investment required to start an NA plant. What this deal does it makes it more attractive to build in SK and ship products here. THere is Little chance of lower pricing as hyundai already has a price advantage over their competition. Economics 101...