Jerry J. Fortin

There is no doubt that the economy of Ontario can and will rebound. It is the heartland of our industries.

Maybe not. But maybe we toss the PC party and jump on the Wildrose boat. Their policy plans are grassroots driven, the possibility exists.......

The trick for Alberta is to diversify. Many of us here in Alberta have been saying this for years. The entire idea of production based economies is beginning to shift, and what it is shifting to is resource based economies. Good news for the capitalists, at least on the surface. Yet the reality is that capitalism is good for the rich and communism is good for the poor. You are always going to have both groups, but the majority of citizens don't fit into either the rich or the poor class. They work for a living and pay taxes. The downside for the majority of citizens is that through that great and wonderful economic system we have setup, we are now losing those jobs to places with lower labour costs. The two systems need to be welded together to provide a more functional society. It isn't that complicated, but it will take balls. We need to get serious about the problems we can now see on the horizon. The answer is relatively simple and that is automated production, we can get around the labour costs that way. We have the technology to do this to a very real extent, it isn't science fiction we are talking about here. The trick is to retrain our people to build the robots and service them and the production facilities. There is the transportation of finished products as well as the transportation of raw material to provide as well. We can do this, if we want. It won't be the private sector that can pull this off though because they don't have the resources or the fiscal capacity to do it, so it must be dine by the government. Its called nation building, something we stopped before we finished and that is the root cause of our problems today. We never finished what we started because we didn't realize that there simply is no end to human development. We know it now. Don't get me wrong this is no mean feat to accomplish. We need to rework just about everything from the foundation up in this nation to get the job done. If we don't do it then we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes and face the same hardships we have already experienced so many time before. It is time to act.

Its not about selling! Its about buying ya dipstick! Its about the balance of trade! Its about the difference between bringing money into the nation and taking it out! Its about a standard of living provided through employment and production. Its about a cost of living determined through the transfer and sale of goods and services brought into and shipped out of a nation.

Bullshit! The federal government is there to represent their partisan faction, nothing else and nothing more. That is how they got to be the damned government having enough PARTISAN members to constitute a working administration whether it be a minority or a majority. Its all about partisan factions and has not a single thing to do with the citizens at large. If it did then I would imagine a Parliament filled with proportional representative that impose the popular vote formula through appointed representatives of get this the damned partisan factions that chose them.

There is nothing on the books with respect to this. We all know that, so why is this an issue? Is anyone advocating that there should be some legislative effort to clearly define such rules of behavior for politicians? Is it likely you could even get a politician to submit such a bill before the house? Right now, in Alberta, the people are rejecting Ed. They have no way to remove him, but they still want to voice their opinions against him. Some of those folks also happen to be MLA's. The PC party has dominated Alberta for more than three decades and has since moved from its right origins to a more centrist position, and the people haven't moved. This is still a right sided group of citizens and they will have what they want. That is to say the Wildrose folks are coming. They are hot on the political trail and first at the polls. The days are indeed numbered for the PC Party of Alberta.

Excellent post Argus...I really hate it when you are right! I think that if Harper is removed that the replacement government would have at least an inkling of what the future holds for those in power here in Canada. The people will have a say about what the government says and does. The power plays and games that go on at the expense of the nation had better deliver some legislative effort that serves the needs, the wants and the desires of the public. Right now the public wants the elected representatives working in the House of Commons, but the PM doesn't. He is putting his interests ahead of the peoples and for that he needs to go. That should provide a little education for those that desire to follow in his footsteps. Harper doesn't have a majority, nor is likely to get one. He must govern with the consent of the majority and he has failed to do so.

I don't mean to suggest that we do. I intended the remark to indicate we cannot return to our position of economic dominance by doing the same thing time after time.

Do you really think the G20 will stem the flow of change? Do you really believe that the G20 are operating in our best interests? The G20 exists as a response to the rise of the Asian markets! Nothing coming out of either the G20 or the G8 has the ability to turn back the clock. What the entire effort is about is to mitigate the administrative efforts, and to steer us further into corporate governance.

Neither does Alberta, but that doesn't seem to be working for us right now either. My point was that things are changing and the former powerhouses, the "G8" are no exception.

You wouldn't.

I have an Alberta drivers license, to prove that I reside here. I pay property tax to the government of Alberta, and I will declare myself a citizen of Alberta if I choose to. This government of Canada allows First Nations peoples to declare themselves as citizens of their native bands, and this nation allows Quebecers to declare they are a distinct society and are citizens of Quebec. Yet when I choose to call myself an Albertan, a citizen thereof, I am less a Canadian than anyone else. Nice double standard, just another reason for my views and further proof of the discriminatory treatment my fellow citizens in Alberta receive at the hands of delusional fools. I never said nor do I desire that Alberta hold the nation hostage. That is already being done by the clowns in Ottawa and their foolish supporters. The entire nation bailed out Ontario just a few short months back, but the nation did diddly squat for Alberta during the NEP, go figure. Who is holding who hostage? We have been through the entire Meech Lake thing and the Quebec separatism thing, and you say that I want Alberta to hold the nation hostage? You are a complete idiot to believe that all provinces have paid into equalization. The provinces never had and never will pay a dime into that stupid program. That money comes from the tax payers, the citizens of the provinces, and straight to the federal government by means of income tax. I seem to recall Ontario was making noise about equalization not very long ago. In addition the abuse is ongoing, with now only three provinces actively putting money into the program. Please bring forth your data to support that nobody else has a problem with the equalization formula, and while you are at it please prove EVERYONE has paid into it with no exceptions as you say. I should not ask you to do the impossible, because it just can't be done, yet I would like to see you prove at least something and back up your posts with more than just your verbose crap. You ask what is the east doing to abuse westerners? How about not changing the Senate to a triple "E". That is at the root of our issues with the Federal Government. The Senate was intended to act as means of balancing the population of the nation with the regions of the nation, we have been waiting for more than a century for that to happen. Lets talk about carbon taxes, and how Quebec will benefit at our expense? Lets talk about the manufacturing industry and how since the Crow Rate it was economically discouraged from creation in western Canada to protect the interests of Ontario and Quebec. We can talk about the thousands of reasons that the west has felt slighted for if you like. Yet somehow I don't think that makes any difference to you, in your arrogant manner, to allow for reasonable conversation and debate. Go ahead and continue to lie, most fools do. I never said I was the ultimate Canadian you fool, just more of a Canadian than you would ever be. What is truly laughable is that you are the only one who believes your lies.

Look at the financial system we have developed and how it was very nearly destroyed. The end of that crisis has not yet been seen. Look at the fiscal structures of companies and governments in the western world. Iceland has fallen, the city of Dubia is in disarray, how many banks are now defunct? Open your eyes and read the writing on the wall. The US is now starting to pay out their OS cheques, how long before that little ripple meets the health care ripple and causes a wave? All of the G8 have debt issues, and where are those debts being financed from and how? By middle eastern and far eastern purchases of bond and treasury bills from the borrowing nations. Look what the IMF and the world bank did in Argentina. Don't you think that those who we compete with haven't gone to school on our methods and practices? Remember how the demise of Hong Kong was going to cause huge problems for China, and how it somehow didn't happen? Wake up people, things are changing and we need to adapt or die.

Western society is in the early stages of collapse right now. If we fail to get our act together we are doomed to be overrun and dominated by the much larger markets of Asia.

You are a fool, the citizens matter more than the nation. The fair and equal treatment of all should be the primary consideration of a federal government in charge of a confederation. When governments act against the interests of citizens, that should be considered a crime, since it is a crime to act against the interests of a nation by a citizen. But not here, in the great nanny state we have created in Canada. Here it is okay to punish the successful and reward the dregs of society. Here you get cradle to grave benefits at the expense of the tax payer, all in the name of a more gentle and forgiving civilization. I am not much of a Canadian, eh? Let me tell you something buddy, I am more a Canadian than you could ever dream to be. I can think as I choose to, I am not one of the sheeple that swallows what is put into their mouths with a smile. Only a fool would accept abusive behavior at the hands of government. We have the right to question what government says and does, and we have the right to oppose the government as well.

It won't be good for the west at all! That is the point! At least the treatment we get will have public consequence and serve the long term needs of the people. Alberta and the west need changes within confederation or they need to get out of confederation its that simple. There is no valid reason to compel western provinces to serve the best interests of the nation at personal expense. You realize that the provinces have no real part of this right? Its the citizens of Alberta that have an issue with the federal government of Canada in how we have been treated.

No Argus, you need to do a little research. Harper is a valid subject for removal at the whim of the majority of members of the House of Commons. Yty reading about that will you. What on earth is a non-confidence motion? Think man! There is no difference in a non-confidence motion and the creation of a coalition it represents the exact same thing a majority of members. I would replace every tin pot dictator who ever sat in the Commons if it was up to me. The will of the majority, that is the law of the land in Canada. I am not an expressed fan of our system but until it changes that is the law. All we can do is try, thats it in the long and the short of it. Harper isn't even trying to govern within our system of democracy, he has tried and will continue to rule by means of orders in council until he is compelled to do otherwise. He is subverting the rules to suit himself, and he needs to pay for that. The system is screwed, because it allows this kind of nonsense, and it needs to change.

He doesn't scare us. What he represents angers us. That is a little different than being scared buddy. I certainly don't hate anyone, not even the easterners who look down on us. They are just ignorant of the realities of the west and they need to be educated.

You are one to talk Argus. Complaining about the conduct of partisanship in the house, and just how is it you treat your fellow humans? By putting words in their mouth, then run around saying the words you choose to put there were actually those of others, and those others should be ridiculed for their stupidity. That is very nearly a classic definition of a hypocrite. I said I would see Harper gone, that was it. That is what you quoted. The rest is all yours buddy, I never said a word of it. I have a twelve year old smart enough to know the difference between what a person says and what someone else says they said. The truth isn't all that hard to find, you just have to look very carefully for it. In this case you are not being truthful are you. Let me tell you what I think. If Harper goes, then the other clowns can be held to a very high standard. In order to get rid of Harper they will need that high standard, and clear goals and objectives to get the blessing from the GG to form a government. Now after that happens and these other jokers can't get their act together then there will be hell to pay on numerous levels. What I seek is the best government for the people that WE CAN HAVE. I am not so partisan as many on this board, and I will vote for the person and not the party next election just the same as I have in every election since I was able to vote in 1977.

Thar is not what he said, nor is it what I think he meant.

The one tax payer concept is something folks need to think about.. On the other hand privatizing government operations may not be the way to go either.

To some degree yes, but look at the level of taxation required to fund it. What I am suggesting is using a business like model to produce revenues outside of a framework of taxation.

What do you mean, what does that even mean? It means designing a system of merged concepts that would serve to promote and protect the concepts of an enlightened western society composed of the social programs and services desired by the people in a manner conversant with the ability to generate sufficient revenues to fund the fiscal requirements dictated by the expressed will of the people. A system that functions on a pay as you go basis. You can only have what you can afford to pay for. If the system is properly designed then it should be profitable which allows for the additional programs and services desired by the people as time goes on. I think we need to realize there is no turning back the clock and start hacking away at what we already have. The people will not accept a reduction in lifestyle or standard of living, only increases are desired. Simple truth, the reality that escapes us to some degree from time to time.

This corporate concept keeps coming up, and that damned light bulb is lite up again. I think there is something to consider there, if you know what I mean. A merger of a couple or few of schools of thought may prove very relevant. Perhaps a nation and its citizens should really become or morph into that corporate entity we created as a business model. Could we not all benefit from a system designed to pay for itself?

You are dense aren't you? I want to be a proud Canadian. My roots here are a little deep. They buried my oldest Canadian descendant in 1703 outside of Troi Riviere. My grandfather came west and settled on a homestead in Alberta in 1903. I have some reason to claim being Canadian and wanting to be proud of it. My family has served in the wars of this nation for the last three centuries. Their existence, their efforts and their genetic material give me the right to speaking freely and openly in this democratic environment. I am Canadian. I live in Alberta, and I am a separatist. I believe this nation is currently abusing as well has already abused my province, and that is the reason that I want to separate. I have the right to say that. My words undermine the nation do they? I had no idea I was that powerful that in stating the truth, I would shake the foundations of Canada. I care because Alberta is getting screwed in the process. Equalization was originally introduced in 1957 and the original plan used a 10 province formula of national average fiscal capacity of all provinces. But that seemed to change from being based on fiscal capacity, and not revenue or need. In the early 80's it morphed into a five province standard because of Alberta which was running at 190% of its fiscal capacity. So they exclude the richest province at the time and the poorest provinces to calculate a national standard that was actually a few per cent less than the current national average. They created a provincial standard in that there is now a guaranteed floor value with an annual escalator. So think about that, they cut us out of the calculation formula and then stick us with the tab! I speak as a free Albertan ya nut job. Not for the province or any other citizens, I am an Albertan "Fortis et Liber". I care because we are getting screwed ya nut job. Really? Try reading this; Here is that link ! Really? Here I thought; then again... and so, I read that here. The CWB is a federal program stuffed with wannabe bureaucrats, their opinions revolve around them keeping a job don't you think? If your preceding points are indicative of what you’re holding back… no worries! Hold back hell, I just haven't got started yet........