Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe

Way to go august youve confirmed once again that fear/hate mongering is alive and well in Canada, and on this forum. If you have indeed read this entire thread youll know that I initiated it with one purpose - to discuss what education people had received about Native studies in school. We had a good debate going ( Betsy included ) until the fear/hate mongers derailed the discussion. In regards to your post - sarcasm is also a form of humour - which you obviously dont get. We ( Temagami, Ahni, NC, GC, myself ) have all repsonded to the repeated stereotyping and closet racist content posted here with amazing restraint - and we have chose to use a bit of humour in the face of this adversity. You have a flair for taking comments out of context - my comments regarding " good things happening " were concerning the peaceful negotiations, and the ground being made there. I dont think any of us deny your numbers provided form statscan, however, the problems currently faced by Native people are the same ones faced in any sector of Canadian society, and really have nothing to do with the land claim issue to which this thread has evolved into. But continue supporting your primary argument with unrelated facts - its amusing, with the added bonus that anyone reading your comments will immediately know where youre coming from. They may agree with you or may not, but im comfortable that any Canadian presented with the actual facts ( those not distorted by the media ) will come to the same conclusions that many of us already have. When you say " gangsters " you are referring to the Warrior Society, yes? They were called in to defend those who are less able to defend themselves - women, children, and the elderly. And fact is that they wouldnt have been called if the OPP wernt forced to conduct the raid. ( i have plenty of sympathy for the OPP becasue i realise they were put in the middle - either do it or possibly lose their job ) The Six Nations people rallied around the protesters repelling the raid - in case you missed the underlying point they were on the defensive - like they have been throughout the various confrontations. I find it hard to equate the written word with bullying, since bullying implies actual physical force being applied - hard to do through a forum. lol but then again your are in the same group of posters who compare the stand for Native rights as terrorism. that word has been stretched to the point of breaking. Comparing the sovereignty issue in Quebec - while simular, is still comparing apples to oranges. But i do sympathise with the Quebec issue - i think all culture should be protected and preserved, it enriches us all. I dont get defensive about other cultures, i want to learn about them. You are combining incidents that happened at different times and places. You do say " a few people " are involved in the arson/vandalism near the Six Nations protest, but what you fail to mention is that the matter is still under investigation, and at the time the incidents took place there was free access to the area. Meaning ANYONE could have done it - until the investigation is complete we cant know for sure who did it. right? What this whole situation did accomplish is to force the government to begin dealing with the situation of land claims, and this protest and others will continue until a negotiation is reached. Native people are uniting coast to coast in order to be heard, and they are being joined by a growing group of non-native supporters. The site has been very quiet lately, depite that some people have contacted the media with reports of bunkers, gunshots, weapons and ammo being cached or stashed, burning property - all of these have not been reported to the police. If these things truly did occur you can guarantee the police would investigate - the OPP are there within 50 feet of the protest 24 hours a day - if a gun had gone off they would have heard it. Unfounded reports such as these are where most of the public are getting their information, actually misinformation. A small number of people are upset that the situation has cooled down and just wont be happy until something erupts. On this we agree 100% - lets start by honouring our obligations, and removing legislation like the Indian Act.

The article clearly outlines that at least some of the community are being proactive in a positive way, they do not support the actions of the racists in town. These racists, the same people who have the ear of the local media ( and starred in that video i posted ), that media in turn passes that misguided info onto your mag the standard and in turn, onto you. The line of misinformation is obvious. Being victimized is something Native people know a lot about, but as you said in a post long ago to someone else " im barking up the wrong tree " lol - it is obvious you are too comfortable in your belief in whatever they put in the standard. That information provided from eyewitnesses or reported to media that can be relied upon to represent Native people - just isnt good enough for you. You also seem unable to suspend your own disbelief and put yourself in the moccasins of the Six Nations People. and even you cant seriously compare a peaceful sit in ( and yes it was 100% peaceful until the OPP moved in ), a road blockade ( minor inconvienience at best, people had to drive around totalling a few extra minutes ), and a handful of scuffles ( a few scrapes WOW ), and a few days without power ( that matter is still under investigation - so dont pin that one on an Native quite yet ) with this fallacy of a standoff you are fantasizing about. Regarding other fire near to the site, around the same time as the transformer - in this case a Barn directly accross from the site. It was set ablaze shortly after nighfall. Who was the first on the scene to help the family out - you guessed it the WARRIORS and other people from the protest site. Together they managed to lessen the damage from the fire. The Man they helped went public with his opinion that the protesters were not invloved. im curious if you heard that story out west - and if so what kind of twist was put on the story? Ive talked to Sahara about this, and i have expressed sympathy for what shes gone through. Im not sure if she has received any of the 1.7 Million Dollars coming to the town. Irregardless of who caused the power outage ( that remains unproven ) she and others in the same situation should be the first ones to get some of the Cali-Cash. But you know who will be first at the trough? The businesses in town which turned away good paying customers because they were Natives. Racism was rewarded. They claim the road blockages affected sales in their respective businesses because of people being unable to frequent the town. The main roads into Brantford and Hamilton were always open ( Hamilton is 10 minutes away and has a population of over 650,000 and Brantford - 20 minutes away with more than 90,000 people ). The real reason their sales have declined is that they alienated the closest demographic that frequented the town - The Natives - 10,000 plus strong on the reserve, with many more people living locally off-reserve bringing the total closer to 20,000 - of note is that Caledonia itself has a population of just over 10,000 - they have alienated a group of consumers who regularly patronised the town whos main population is equal to their own - 10,000 plus customers lost.... As ive said in one of my " missing " posts any of these business who turned away paying customers shouldnt get a single penny - racism is illegal, maybe they should be prosecuted? I find it easy to believe, that you found that hard to believe. The peice of this puzzle youre missing is that the Warriors are there to " react to " not to " initiate " At least 60 residents realise they are not the targets of the protest, and have decided to do something positive so media pressure is kept on the governmet to take action. Many thanks to them Supposedly....*cough*... any publiction with a section entitled " Shotgun Blog " has left any doubt to their red-nekkidness by the side of the road - thrown out of their pickup truck - barely missing the gun rack in the back - YEE HA!!! Thank You for proving the point i made earlier - Six Nations people are not hiding from media scrutiny. If you go to their website youll see that isnt the case - read a few articles. When you say vandals youre talking about the Transformer, right? Or are you talking about the seperate assault incidents? Because as i said earlier, anybody could have been guilty of the arson on the transformer - non-natives included. Uh-huh OK - keep a hold onto the reighn there! bad pun intended. No need to apologise Betsy - i recognise and accept your limitations.

Then show me the coverage of the flip side of this situation in mainstream media. Are you actually implying that the media has " been soft " towards the Native point of view in this crisis? If so where is it? Actually Arg-ass, the Native media isnt afraid to tell both sides, which you would know if you actually read any of the articles i posted. As for the links I post on the historical facts in regards to land claims, you would be correct in saying they support the Native viewpoint. Although i would hardly call a historically significant document biased - unless were speaking of The Indian act. Has anyone read that yet? The links you post are invariably biased. They can't be relied on for any kind of accuracy. As for the mainstream media, it has long been known to be softheaded and softhearted over matters like native and minority rights. The idea they are somehow conspiring to make the natives look bad is ludicrous. If the media is biased it will be towards the natives, not against them.

A positive step forward dont you think? This clip from an article that pretty much sums up how a lot of people feel on both sides of this debate from Turtle Island News. June 21, 2006 Caledonia residents are right, land claims need to be settled now DOUGLAS CREEK LANDS, SIX NATIONS- Six Nations people engaged in a peaceful reclamation of lands they have been alienated from for almost 200 years wish to express their gratitude, and agreement with Caledonia residents, protesting in Toronto today, that it is time for the federal and provincial governments to begin serious negotiations on returning the Douglas Creek lands to Six Nations. An estimated 60 Caledonia residents made their way to Toronto, on Aboriginal Solidarity Day, Wednesday, to vent months of tension and frustrations. Six Nations residents have been waiting more than 200 years for a resolution to its land issues. Spokeswoman, Janie Jamieson said “I would like to thank the Caledonia Citizens’ Alliance for taking a step towards uniting, with Six Nations, to push the government to resolve land claims. It is even more significant today, because they took our fight to the Premier (Dalton McGuinty) on Aboriginal Solidarity Day.” Spokeswoman Hazel Hill commented today, “we have been trying for 113 days to get the governments to understand this issue is about the land, not the Caledonia people. We are pleased to see the Caledonia Citizens’ Alliance agrees with us, that government needs to move on this, today.” She added, “In the past 113 days our people have been subjected to racism, rock throwing, have had beer bottles thrown at them during the Caledonia Friday night riots, and been subjected to mobs of angry Caledonia people who have been left frustrated by the Ontario and federal government’s inability to provide them with information or an explanation for their inactions.” She said that government inertia has caused physical injuries and psychological damage to Six Nations people.”Our people have suffered from injuries and hate crimes. Our elderly were swarmed and attacked by mobs of Caledonia people, but no one from Caledonia has been charged. KKK material has been circulated in our mailboxes.” Hill said there is no validity to claims that Six Nations residents have engaged in fear tactics or threats. “Our people have stood silent while we have been subjected to day after day, week after week of racism and hate crimes because we have reclaimed land that is ours.” She said “the residents of Caledonia are being“caught in the middle of a political fight between our people and the federal and provincial governments who refuse to move on returning our lands.” Hill said she agrees with Caledonia residents that the “rule of Canadian law has failed to force its own people to abide by their own laws. Our people are being arrested and charged for incidents, all of which, have been sparked by non-Six Nations people who are frustrated by their own government. We agree with Caledonia residents. It’s time to move on this land issue now.” She said Six Nations people are at risk daily. “We are constantly finding ourselves in a situation where we have to defend ourselves from Caledonia shutting down the roads, swarming our elderly, abusing our youth and racist hate crimes.” The Ontario government has pumped more than $1.5 million into Caledonia businesses, millions into policing and another over $45 million to buy out the developer of Douglas Creek Estates but still has not dealt fairly with Six Nations over its land. Six Nations people have continued to press the federal and provincial crowns for: - a moratorium on development on the Douglas Creek lands - the decriminalization of the political activities of Six Nations people in defending their lands - the safety of people who will continue a peaceful presence on the Douglas Creek lands - an educational campaign for Ontario residents, including the citizens of Caledonia. “This has never been about the Caledonia residents. This is about Six Nations’ land rights and the long outstanding accounting of Six Nations trust funds that were under the trust of the federal crown but have disappeared over the years. We hope Caledonia residents will continue to join with us in pushing the federal and provincial crowns to resolve these matters for their sake, and ours,” said Hill. Caledonia residents are welcome to visit the Douglas Creek lands information booth. Six Nations people maintain the Douglas Creek lands, as part of the lands under the 1784 Haldimand Proclamation have never been surrendered and continue to work towards a peaceful resolution.

I guess the only people who will conduct their own research are those interested in the TRUTH. So all these " ordinary folks " like yourself just cant be bothered to investigate the other sides viewpoint. I think this is partly because you just cant be bothered to click any of a number of links provided here and actuall read and digest whats being said. Secondly, as i said previously - its just so damn easy to read an article in your rag then post on the forum with absolutely no understanding of any of the background surrounding the land claim issue. On this forum alone you have been provided resources to educate yourself ( only a click away ), but you have chosen not too in favour of disseminating what youve read in the standard as truth, without so much as an independant thought that all the reports in the media regarding the protest site are from the Caledonia protesters point of view. Weird huh? even though youve been provided with the means to develop a fair understanding, you instead choose to dramatize those aspects of the media coverage which are obviously blown out of proportion. What should make you think something is amiss is the fact that non-native media has totally centred on the comments from some of the Caledonia residents. The fact that you took in all this media info and the issue of the opposing viewpoint never even entered your mind is curious to say the least. Wouldnt be the first time the media would be guilty of lies of omission. Read up on the Indian Act - some parts of that were a conspiracy.... http://www.ammsa.com/classroom/CLASS4indianact.html click - click - clicky - You only risk being educated

If you are interested with the " seed of learning " as you put it - youll need a true source to learn from - without it an inaccurate accounting of the facts will continue to be circulated. Since peoples very important " first impressions " are being provided by one sided reporting, the real story just isnt getting out. The public is much more comfortable believing the first thing they hear or read. They imprint the sensational images seen on the front page of these " scary guys " and thats all they seem to see from that point on.

Oh - myself and others understand fully. You gobble up what the media spoon feeds you, and you want more. Unfortunately, what they are feeding you is poison. I really have no idea about what media you are exposed to out west, but from your comments it just doesnt jive with what ive witnessed with my own eyes. and more through video. I live 20 minutes from Caledonia, and unlike the majority of people expressing opinions on the forum - ive been there and have seen some of what the protesters have to deal with. And of course even the local media doesnt cover both sides, so i can only imagine the version of events people are reading farther away. Take the accounting of events provided from your western standard, then read a Native news source like Turtle Island. I can hear you already asking why you should trust a Native source over your beloved western standard - and hey you dont have to. But considering both sides will put you a lot closer to the truth. I am currently reading a book entitled " Iroquois Land Claims " find a copy - it may help you to understand what is involved in these situations - the ISBN is 0-8156-0222-7 also " One Dead Indian " about events surrounding Ipperwash ISBN 0-7710-3047-9 First nations people are beginning to Unite, Organise and Protest. Like everyone else they want a timely resolution to these problems.

Betsy - you keep using terms like " terrorists" and " inflict suffering " to dramatize the view youve painted for yourself of whats going on at the site. Using those words makes me feel like your trying to describe the situation like people are dying and being injured in Caledonia - Because people are occupying a peice of land? Blocking a road forcing people to drive around? im not thrilled with the racist actions of those groups and what theyre trying to do there, even with all their violent tendencies directed towards Native people I couldnt use those terms to describe them. But to clarify, the barricades are all down - people are staying on the site - so explain to me how they are doing anything to the town? or as you so colourfully put it " using an innocent as a whipping post " On the matter of the Elders taking the matter to parliament - Have you been reading any of the posts on the forum? Im about to come full circle for you once again - Six Nations people have been trying for YEARS to have a government ear listen to them, the government has always side stepped the issue because they had no pressure to listen - the matter could be swept away because the public had no idea what was going on. Now people are listening, and learning.... even with efforts to villify the protesters, most people see through it.

Betsy - you are saying there is no excuse for disrupting the lives of the Caledonians, then proceed to condone their acts of racism because its understandable or it is a logical progression to commit these acts. " acts " ...more accurately described as CRIMES. And to say Native people have a had a " hard time " is the greatest understatement ive yet to read on this forum. Native people have been nearly silent for more than 200 years while suffering the various abuses put upon them. They suffer for that long and only until recently have they chose to raise their voices, and you choose to cry for sympathy for a group that has suffered so greatly.... having to drive around the block for a few months. Only those that are truly vapid cannot realise which group has been wronged here.

Actually Riv-ahhh - They have been recliamed - they are being held " in trust " by the provincial government. I beleive the reason for this is to avoid complicating the issue further than it already is. Instead of seperate agreements, the lands will stay in limbo until such time as a solution is negotiated and a single document can de drafted. Granted, given the way our federal governemt has handled land claims, this may take some time as they are prone to dragging their heels. But hopefully the provincial governeent will be able to move swiftly, so i will give them the benefit of the doubt. The lands are not being handed over - they may never be handed over. The province just bought out the developer because it was easier than risking a violent confrontation to end the blockade.

When the protest began at Douglas Creek, it was contained to the site only. The barricades went up in response to the Police raid, as an effort to protect themsleves. Some residents of Caledonia were opposed even at the onset of the protest, pre-barricade. Making peoples lives miserable was never the purpose of the protest at any point - raising awareness about the Land Claim issue was, and still is paramount. The Douglass Creek lands have been reclaimed, being officially recognised as Six Nations Territory. Despite that fact, the Premier is asking for the protesters to leave what is officially recognised by the government as their own territory. The site is only a small part of the land claim, but may become a focal point for all land claims coast to coast. The protest continues and i expect simular protests to take place wherever land claims are being ignored by the government.

Im sorry some of you cant see the bigger picture emerging from current events. The term " terrorist " is being stretched to the utmost in attempt to incite negative feelings and associations with the word onto the Native protests. Personally, I associate the word to people who threaten death or who actually kill for their cause. I dont think anyone can seriously say that the Native protests fit that criteria. Temagami, Ahni, NativeCharm and myself have all reiterated at one time or another that the matter is not going to go away. These protests are essential to keep the governments attention fixed on the issue, without this attention being drawn the government will find it quite easy to ignore - as they have done for countless years previous. Obviously this cannot be allowed to happen. The Native people have exhibited extreme patience and tolerance with the abuses of authority they have endured over the years. These injustices were hidden from the public for so long. Only now - since the people have begun to pull together, to stand up, organise and get the word out are the people of Canada realising what has transpired. Good things are happening - the government is listening - there is forward movement in negotiations. The sooner a solution is reached, the sooner everyone can begin to bury their fear of the unknown and move forward - hopefully together.

Heres a question : How much money does Canada donate to other countries in a year? Maybe this money should go to solving our own internal problems first? Lets pay for our own house before we shell out to patch someone elses roof.

Well Riv - the government and the majority of Canada doesnt agree with you. Most feel that the agreements should have been honoured from the start, and the sentiment is that the sooner a deal can be reached the less-expensive it will be. Again Im thinking the majority will firstly recognise the validity of the signed agreements ( like any honourable person or administration would do ) Secondly i dont beleive the majority of people are not money hungry nor are they willing to let the Land Claim deficit go on like it has for so damn long. The longer this goes on the deepr the hole - if you will. Im thinking that transfering the lands may be the most direct route to a good settlement - Grant the lands - develop taxation system that goes to the Six Nations ( in a new municipality - if that makes it easier for you ) then they steer their own development. Then people like you can wait to see if things go well and if not you can pick the bones like a vulture.

Riva Menchen - you do have a lack of respect for legality/contracts - or is that only ones signed with Native peoples? You can attempt to spin the issue any which way you want but the facts remain the same. Contracts were signed between two peoples, and government is starting to deal with the fact that they havnt lived up to their obligations in these agreements. ( Whether YOU like it or not ) Your fear over your " apartheid-like-state " forming is short sighted and laughable - What do you think the reserve system is? OH! but the problem is that now the shoe may be on the other foot, right!? Another point is that it wouldnt be " run for " anybody. You really are afraid that if given the opportunity and resources that they were promised they will be successful. Thankfully, Uber Riv despite your assertion to the contrary - that MAJORITY you speak of - do not think along the same lines as you. I dare say they would choose to honour a contract signed. So let me affirm the fact your are securely in the moral minority. AND I didnt threaten anything of the sort!, but your push and shove statement, and your comparison to Intifada seems to highlight a preoccupation with violence - I guess youre expressing what you would like to see happen. Everyone has the right to protest injustice - Native people as a whole have endured years of mistreatment and are now joining together in strength to bring to the public awareness regarding the details of what they have gone through. Most people honestly dont know the history, but they are learning. The more the truth gets out, the more goodwill there will be - so support WILL grow in the non-native community. Some may quickly understand that Natives have a legitamate right to the land and monies. I support any non-violent means that draws attention to this issue, be it peaceful sit in, temporary road blockages or handing out information pamphlets outside establishments situated on disputed lands OR Political venues. Temper their demands - Riv? Why should they alter any of the agreements? Want to help with the violence? Lets start with settling down the provocateurs in the non-native community. Ah and - ridiculous postering - like saying a deal is not a deal - I dont have to honour contracts signed because my group is in the majority?

No need? Until ALL the land claims have been resolved there is a need. There is a long road ahead, and without the acknowledgement that Six Nations have rights in regards to the Lands outlined in the Haldimand Deed, its going to be hard to trust Mr. Mcguinty. Furthermore, If the land formerly known as Douglas Creeks Estates has been reclaimed and is now part of Six Nations Lands - What right does he have have to tell the protetesters to leave Six Nations Territory? NONE The lands recovered from Douglas Creek and Burtch are steps in the right direction, but the issue is far from over. I dont see any reason that the protesters shouldnt remain strong and keep bringing attention to the subject. The issue is much bigger than Six Nations VS Henco. Land issues from coast to coast still need to be resolved, protests should continue - if only for the single reason to keep a bug in the governments ear. If the protest stops, and everyone quiets down as the Premier has asked - what guarantee do we have that the issue wont be swept under the carpet and ignored once again? And for how long this time? another 200 years? If anything is to be learned from this, it is that unless the issue is public, the government doesnt feel obligated to act. Let all the bands with land claims join hands..... SOLIDARITY !!!

That 1 Million was the THIRD installment of monies given to the town. link to previous post of mine ---> http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....ndpost&p=118017

Thank You Hope everybody has a Safe and Happy Solidarity Day!!

Dont accept any cheques from River LOL

But past wrongs should be learned from, and corrected if possible. The solution to the problem is simple. Canada has to live up to its obligations, as stated in the treaties. ALL OF THEM!!! Ive argued with River about the validity of a signed legal agreement before, and he wriggles like a worm on a hook In regards NativeCharms's comments youve taken issue with : He/She may be referring to the Indian act as a whole. ( still havnt read it eh? Riv? ) Secondly - Common Sense and Calculative judgement may mean that somone with sound mind will realise that these issues are not going to go away, and they should be dealt with immediately for the greater benefit of all concerned. Just my two cents. is consistent with this statement: I agree that some pragmatism is necessary to resolve these issues. That is why I said native treaties are a _political_ issue rather than a legal one. However, non-native Canadians should approach any such dicussions with certain principals in mind. First and foremost should be that aparthied is has no place in our society and that past wrongs cannot be used to justify future wrongs.

The videos were quite obviously the work of an amateur camera man, and was for the most part a single stream of footage. i beleive there were a couple stoppages when no one was in view. Staged... *shakes head* did you see the close ups of the people on the other side of the fence, listen to whats being said? Hear the rocks narrowly misising people, forcing them back in order to avoid being hit? Did you view any of the other video provided via my second link? as well as the video, listen to whats going on around the filming. Did you see the videos where on two seperate occasions some tough guy threatens a lone Native woman? Why wasnt he charged with uttering threats? Im hoping someone will see these recordings that is in a position to make them an issue. The filming of the incident was an excellent and peaceful way to react to the provocations by - and I hesitate to say residents of Caledonia, becasue i know these people are only a small representation of the townspeople. Funny how anyone that supports Six Nations is automatically labelled a goon or inherently violent. In the video where a Native woman was trying to speak on film to a reporter from Hamilton - the crowd was yelling , name calling etc and one man tried to quite the crowd so the lady could speak ( he wanted t hear what she had to say ) - the man had to be escorted away - so anybody speaking out that isnt anti-native must be quelled, and risk violence from the mob. So whos violent now? AND Heres what i heard happened with the supporters from Toronto. They get off the bus displaying pro-Native signage and * surprise surprise * The friendly folks in the Canadian Tire parking lot come to greet them. AND im going out on limb here... but i dont think they were going over to shake their hands and afffirm they have the right to protest in support of Six Nations. I am very open to view any video originating from either side of this issue, so any amateur videographers that happened to catch real video evidence of the arrival of the protesters from Toronto, id like to see it. In regards to the partial snippets of article you posted - I would still like to view the entire article for myself - so if you could locate and pass on the link I would appreciate it. Im particularly interested to view the comments of both women named in the article. The first line states she is one of the appointed lawyers, then the article shifts to the second lady - id really like to view the article in its entirety.

If you have a legal beef - go for it! It will attract media attention to your cause, then the public can decide if they personally agree or diasaree. HECK ! Geoffry, I may even support you! You really do miss the big picture here though geoffry, and i dont think you ever will. Your objection to Natives in general will forever cloud your vision and your judgment. Heres another tidbit for you - anybody charged with anything to do with the protest is going to court. And the same should be said ANYBODY who was involved in any illegality. I will wait patiently for the cases to be heard, and all the evidence to be weighed in front of a neutral judge. I can pretty much guarantee BOTH sides will be heard in court, and perhaps some justice will be handed out - not only for the Six Nations but for the residents of Caledonia as well.

There is more than one video in those archives - find the one where the man threatens the lone female Native reporter - he was awfully brave. After viewing it, realise that protecting people from a situtation like that is why the Warrior Society is there. Listen to the provocation the residents endure, caught on audio. No video from the raid? In the video clip you showcased do you catch the date? it was taken the morning after the Police moved in. Being a peaceful protest they didnt have cameras rolling to catch the police conducting the pre dawn raid - tape began rolling from the camp after that. Anybody reading this check out the videos and make a judgement for yourselves. I posted that link because both sides are not being represented - I dont think youve seen any footage of the abuse the protesters edure - from my understanding these recording were offered to television news and not used - Why is that? Scrib - have to admit there were a few bandanas around.... LOL OH and some Quads tryng to shed some light on the fenceline - as far as the other items on your " wish they were there list " they are all fallacy. Did the video make you a star, Scrib?

And these : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2062107048597866513 Then make it happen. You can do your community a great service. Get a copy of the video, post it on the 'net, then phone City TV and give them the link. My opinion is that there's more laziness out there than bias. The media is only as bad/good as we allow it to be.

Check this out: http://friendsofsixnations.bravehost.com/ Then make it happen. You can do your community a great service. Get a copy of the video, post it on the 'net, then phone City TV and give them the link. My opinion is that there's more laziness out there than bias. The media is only as bad/good as we allow it to be.