killjoy

The silence is deafening. .

Bush and his 200 billion for Iraq has absolutely nothing to do it although I can see why you wish it did. CIHR? Ok. Bully for them. They did something that required very little inititive on their part. Cancer is cured then thanks to the beautiful Liberals. I can't wait to tell everyone. Bottom line is the Liberals spent as much on a 'security sweep' a couple years ago that was a complete and utter fiasco and you weren't calling for their heads then or comparing them to Bush. This sweep yielded results. I know you hate it but too bad. .

What a great idea! A pity the Liberals didn't think of it sometime over the past 12 years of robbing us blind... until they were voted out. Now it's time to hold the PM up to higher standards. no doubt. .

And you're infinitely more likely to get cancer than die in a terroist attack if the people planning this stuff get caught because of your new security measures, instead of going on to bomb T.O. I suppose Harper should be concerting his efforts to cure cancer instead. Can't the guy get anything right? .

They kinda have to, don't they? Anything to paint this in a negative light, after all they need to distract people from comparing this security sweep with the one they tried to do 2 years ago when they wrote the manual on how to COMPLETELY screw up this kind of investigation. Anyone remember that fiasco? "Oh well one of them was learning to be a pilot and his flight path took him near a nuclear power plant"... Yeah I don't remember the fair-weather politically-conscious-when-it's-conveinent Liberal supporters claiming the Liberals were just emulating Bush then....which ironic since it was much more like a Bush-policy if you consider for a moment how much of a complete cluster-**** it was. .

Black Dog I agree. I posted that when details on the suspects origins were sketchy. .

Yeah and Harper is Hitler. Keep telling yerself that. .

Sheer stupidity. I'm sorry but that's the way it is. Let me see if I have this straight: It IS a new Government -(the truth)-, and this IS propaganda? Harper IS NOT Hitler anymore than you or I am, yet equating him to Hitler -(unbelievably stupid hyperbole and obvious manipulation)- ISN'T propaganda? You think by adding the quote from Hitler they are NOT trying to draw an allusion? Jesus. Is this where we’re at? We can’t even recognize propaganda when we spell it out for ourselves right in front of us? Whatever. Seriously gerry, I think I'm going to have to put you on the 'can't-take-seriously' list. .

There's always a campaign "afoot". Gerry if you can't see how far you're reaching I can't help you. The Liberals have been in power, what? 12 years? If that's not new I don't know what is. The only one getting a Pavlovian response is you --- or is that just simply an over reaction? It sounds like typical advertising speech if you ask me....in the same way one gas station will offer you a 'giant' free 2 litre bottle of Pepsi with every fill --- which is so much better than their competitors 'small puny insignificant' 2 litre bottle of pepsi given out with every fill. So what? Can we compare this with a few of Chretiens gems? Does political BS rhetoric only count when its not your party? It's meaningless and the only meaning there is, is from the human brains constant need to form patterns --- even when they are insignificant. As far as Harper being a 'Bush Ass-Kisser', well what can I say? If we juxtapose Harpers behaviour towards Bush against the previous regimes ‘strategy’ of calling him a moron on my tax dollar then yeah I suppose he's an ass kisser. .

Yes. I'm sure if we can ram that phase hard enough we can make it sound like the famous "new world order" in the same way we can bang away until the square peg fits into the round hole....but it isn't. It IS a new government. So what? And frankly whether it's immigration, health care, dealing with the US or anything else, as hard as it might be for you to accept that's precisely what enough Canadians to vote him in are concerned with. I’m not a ‘Harper’ man. Like a lot of Canadians I’ve wanted to vote conservative/PC for a long time, but until Harper came along, and the man isn’t a god or anything, but until he came along the various incarnations of the conservatives just didn’t seem to have the coordination or maturity to run the country. They couldn’t even form a decent alliance among themselves without turning on each other like a pack of roman senators. I voted Liberal til Harper came along. I don't think I'm alone in Canada in that regard by any means. IOW, the Liberals have had their chance and probably will again. Until then you gotta deal with the fact that they lost, and they lost because not enough people voted for them. .

Not exactly. They don't need the detonators, but if they had documented instruction on how to build detonators from scratch, say from the internet (a Johnny Jihad version of the Anarchist Cookbook or something), plus the basic elements needed to get that final piece of the puzzle, well then like I say, they only need to prove serious intent (not just bragging). Plus, just on a note of 'gossip', it would seem at least one of them considered themselves a poet/writer which of course is death to conspirators, as well the various authorities seem to insist a lot of the evidence is based on documented evidence from the internet and such. Is there a manifesto? We'll have to see. The Devil is in the details. .

One thing that nags at me is that, IIRC, in order to detonate ammonium nitrate one needs, specifically, an explosive concussion trigger. Not flame. Not electric shock. The Oklahoma bombers used dynamite to detonate the A.N. and blasting caps to detonate the dynamite. So far I've only read/heard about the 3 tons of A.N., no detonation mechanism. If it's not there would that be a point of contention in court? They only have to prove sincere intent, not full ability, but does that lack of the final ingredients in the confiscated booty signal legal problems later? .

Actually FascistCanuk has been banned from more than a few forums. He's actually pretty proud of it. No, he isn't 'average right-winger'. He's a troll. .

Johnny: I kinda knew that but I couldn't help but use it as an example. .

Gentleman. Please. This is exactly what we're talking about. Most likely this little turd has no intention (or balls) to do anything, but your anger and fear feed him. Now he feels tough. Like a real freedom fighter. . See this is exactly the 'rationale' we're dealing with here. There are vague demands and even more vague accusations, but really they just want to hurt you, there really isn’t a reason. I mean this guy is complaining about racism and discrimination and yet you can just tell by reading it he's really a 'Muslim supremist'. ...and we all have to treat them different and revere them more and honour them more because if we don't (and we never will since that's entirely up to their conjecture) we will get bombed. Against all evidence to the contrary they think this will work. To them fear = respect which to any rational adult is understood to be wrong. They will say "We're not afraid to die" but all that's really relevant is how willing we are to kill them, which, since Iraq or Afghanistan has yet to become a nuked wasteland shows which of us truly has the most-brains-over-emotion. .

I agree. This is one of the serious weapons in the fanatic-Islamic arsenal. Divide and conquer. Islam is at war with itself first and foremost. Before the Jews and before us. From Indonesia to Morocco Islam and its followers are 'evolving' if you will as the difference between urban and rural, between rich and poor, between cosmopolitan and isolated becomes more. Old Islam (Iran's Mullah system) is at war with its modernizing self (Iranian students at the moment are a good example). We don't hear much about this over the car-bombs, but because worldwide Islam’s population is bottom-heavy (more young than old, opposite of the West), there has been serious call for change, demonstrations, even 'anti-fanatic' acts of terrorism. .

What really scares me about this is that is would seem to a lot of Canadians that since this didn't happen, that it wouldn't have happened. These little punks would've been SOOOO proud and happy with themselves if only they could've killed a few dozen (hundred?) of us. The more the better. They would've felt so powerful and happy to see people YOU know or love twisting in the dirt looking for their arm or their eyes. They should've just let them go ahead and do it. As it is this isn't really a wake up call at all. On a less vengeful note, I worry about the other Muslims in the country. There will be so much hysteria over Muslims here who have a tacit approval of terrorist activity that the ones (like my neighbours across the road) who are totally non-violent will be faced with crap from people. There are so many muslims here who, unfortunately, not only have nothing to do with it, but to whom the thought of hurting people is far more alien than your average "Go-Oilerzz" pinhead. .

This is a classic example making a story when you don't have one to report and the editors are wondering 'what they're paying you for over there'. The story was destined to be "Our soldiers hand suspects to USA. Canada related to Gitmo?", or "Our soldiers torture prisoners", or "Canada executes Afghans in cold blood", but of course there isn't one of these stories so we have to settle for this. There is only the incident of some of our solders who have encountered a tricky situation rife with multiple facets and resolving it like professionals. We're done. Maybe you didn't know that these are the kind of things they have to land on their feet with all the time. But whatever. If it's in the paper there has to be something to it and if it isn't in the paper then it didn't happen. These reporters do their stories from hotel rooms and over the telephone sometimes only because they have a deadline and a need to report something and yet they 'control' and influence every thought anyone has if they are interested in what is going on...and half the time it's all accidental, serendipitous, superfluous or rumour . News is a corporate throwaway business. Their product is unique in that it doesn't really have to be real and all that matters is what's the newest thing. Like the food industry they gussy-up some crap they scrapped off the floor and call it ‘gourmet’….like ‘gourmet hotdogs’. .

Fer sure. These boys are victims not culprits. Suspended sentences and lifetime welfare for all the accused. j/k .

Opinions on this forum seem pretty mature on either side if I may say, but judging from what I read on more juvenile forums I think they just should've gone ahead and let them bomb whatever they were going to bomb. (like Bush probably did :-)) .

Not for nothing but a lot of people do base the idea of terror attacks against Canada within the context of our involvement in Afghanistan and 9/11...ie. if we weren't there this wouldn't have happened. Does anyone remeber Ressam and his crew, who were planning a terrorist attack in Jewish Montreal? In 1999, BTW, before 911 or Afghanistan. The terrorists were trained there, however. Afghanistan IS our problem. If the Taliban return, and are allowed to set up more training camps, who do you think will be number 2 or 3 on their list of targets? Even if we did leave now? I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin', y'know? .

Good post Rue. Some good points. I will give a proper response this evening. Too busy at the moment. .

Canada is a 'kindler, gentler', apartheid. Segregate. Segregate. Segregate. In the beginning that was the white man's mantra, and soon it became the natives'. We are cursed to 'negotiating' and 're-negotiating' these land disputes until the end of time simply because we (Canadians and Natives) refuse to make ONE single citizen* entity (instead of three: Native. Quebecois. Everyone else). I don't believe Canada has ever fully honoured one single treaty to its' full. I don't believe I've ever heard native leaders admit that keeping their heritage will never really happen with the daydream that they can live in isolation. Kinda backfired, didn't? I mean if I could use one word to describe the state of the average native in Canada I would use the word, 'isolated'. Or maybe ‘quarantined’. Or simply, ‘segregated’. *sounds logical I know, but the idea was probably too 'American' and 'course that trumps all .

Yes, well I suppose juxtaposed against the former regimes “strategy” of calling them morons and such, then yeah. I guess he does look like a wannabie. Mouthy-pointless name calling on our dime = Liberals run by a dottering old crackpot. ...and so far, Not doing that and settling longstanding disputes = American Wannabie. .

Krusty Without taking a shot at Rue, because I don't know the dude from Adam, I would say that the identifiable pop-culture theme of supporting the troops by demanding they come back in Canada is yet another example of how while we claim we distrust America, we claim we're not like them, and then we unconsciously pick up everything they do...even if it doesn't apply to us. That, ('upport the troops-bring them back), argument has more legs in the USA where there are so many more 18,19,20,21 years-olds, whom, one could easily argue (but not w/o insult), are not capable of making their own decisions. Also there is the sheer number of them. The argument that you support the troops because you want them back only has legs if the soldiers don’t want to be there. This isn’t the draft. These aren't kids. They're far more adult than most. There is no 100000 troops out there. There is simply 2300+ of the finest example of soldier the planet has ever, (ever) seen. They are a sophisticated experienced group 2300 dedicated people who all believe in this mission (in the defence of civvies a lot of it has to do with being there) and all they want is o be given their chance at doing it. 2300 adults all volunteers. Most could've opted out with a simple "My wife won't let me". Who are we to tell them they can't risk their own life doing this if that's their choice? Lets bring back the Red Cross then too because its too dangerous and it wont do them any good. Who cares how willing the RC workers are....Afghanistan is lost. Kinda ridiculous telling these people they don’t have the right to make up their mind. Jeeziz. All the billions we've wasted on bumble headed crap here at home and we can't just let them have a chance at this? Ridiculous. It really doesn't seem like anyone has a clue. Ships are safer in harbour but that's not why you have them. (Wasn't looking your way while ranting, Rue.) .