carepov

You stated that religious people follow the wishes of a magic creator. You also seem to be ignoring the positive influences of religious beleifs and values that comat homophobia.

Yes. Most religious people do not beleive that their god states that homosexuals are an abomination. IMO, most religious people may treat religious ideas as something special - but only in the realm of the meta-physical. I.e the purpose of life, what hapens after we die, the origins of the universe, etc... Otherwise, in day-to-day religious people as as tolerant, competent and rational as the non-religious.

Even worse over-gernaralization as you lump over 6 billion religious people into one.

You are over-generalizing by grouping over 1 billion people into one.

Then maybe you should stop speaking of these people as if they were beneath you.

Your statement is not analogous because smoking is a proven cause of cancer. There is no such proof that Christianity contributes to homophobia. Some Christians are homophobic. Some biblical texts are homophobic. Some Christians and texts are incluive and tolerant. Which influences are stronger? Do proffessional sports organizations contribute to homophobia? Does rap music contrubute to homophobia?

You are wrong. I object to the action that is unreasonable.

I disagree with you. The state should be making reasonable accomodations for religious and cultural practices. Don`t ask me to draw the exact line between reasonable and unreasonable but the colander hat is certainly not reasonable.

In the last 200 years, I see no evidence that the absence of religious beleifs results in a more rational and tolerant society. How many Christian homosexuals would you need to meet before changing this view of yours?

How many peaceful, tolerant muslims would you need to talk to before retracting such a statement? Have you ever travelled to a country where Islam was practiced by a significant percentage of the population? (I almost wrote muslim country)

The average law-abiding Canadian of the 70's and 80's is about as responsible as the average citizen of any country with similar human rights abuses. No, I don't understand why people are upset about becoming "minorities". What difference does it make if you are a "minority", why are people unhappy about it? World-class companies value their employees as people - not just "commodities". In the long run, the interests of employees and owners (immigrants and Canada) are complementary not competing. A company would never rule out a candidate based only on their university. Yes we can improve selection - just not the way you suggest. We can also improve integration. One way to do this would be to be more welcoming to new Canadians.

There's more than a very, very, very few xenophobic racist bigots in Canada. There are certainly more than there are isolated, non-English-nor-French-speaking, sharia-law-advocating, terrorist-supporting, diseased, fake-education-credential-holding, female-genital-mutilating, immigrants. Canada's unemployemnt rate is one of the best in the OECD and lower than the US which is very rare historically. Bingo. Our acceptance of immigrants is part of our values that makes Canada stronger, more united and unique. Yes probably. Back then we used to beat up on gay people to for the fun of it. I'm sure glad we progressed. A car is a bad analogy - they are designed to be manufactured all to the same specifications - people are not. We should continue to select the best immigrants based on education, employability, language, family connections. There is room for improvement however your suggestion would lead to: a) missing out on some good immigrants b.) mar our international reputation as we would be perceived by many people as being racist

Sure, on the one hand you criticize Canada's universities, on the other hand you praise it. Guess what, I am sure that some degrees in Pakistan are more valuable than some Canadian degrees. Either way, I have three points supporting my argument that immigrants are more educated on average than average Canadians. (degrees, citizinship tests, and multiple languages). Isn't it true that first generation Canadians are more educated than the average Canadian? It is true that new immigrants are earning less, that is one point that supports your stance.

You are new so may not have read presious threads that included a study of the prison population of Canada broken down by race. You also missed the refutation of ther Fraser report. Tip: You will have beter luck in continuing a conversation with shorter posts and fewer sarcastic/rhetorical questions and a more respectful tone.

Sure. It is a benefit to all those that attend, participate and profit from related econimic activity.

These are two very good points. I will elaborate on point #2. You are correct, not all Canadians that criticize multiculturalism and feel that our immigration numbers are way too high are xenophobic racist bigot. I certainly do not consider you to be one. However, many are, and certainly almost all Canadian racist-bigoted-xenophobes criticize multiculturalism and feel that our immigration numbers are way too high. Similarly, not all immigrants from non-Western countries have the negative stereotypical characteristics that have been assigned to them, including their supposed difficulty or resistance in adapting to Canadian society. The Canadian immigration system should continue to judge applicants based on their individual qualities (education, employability, language, etc...), not on the stereotypes of the country that they belong to.

Your previous false claims are well-refuted by MH. You are the one that asked for real and measureable effects of Canadian multiculturalism. So far you have: -Sharia law discussions (no actual implementation) -Immigrants bring diseases (so do tourists) -Different languages being spoken is bad (?) -Vague economic arguments supported by the Fraser report that has been refuted -Immigrants are less educated than Canadians. False: "Overall, nearly two thirds of working-age (25-64 years) immigrants (65%) had a postsecondary diploma or degree, 6 percentage points higher than their Canadian-born counterparts. Immigrants were more likely than the Canadian-born to have a bachelor’s degree or university certificate or diploma above the bachelor level as their highest educational attainment. The concentration in higher education is more obvious for recent cohorts." http://www.cic.gc.ca/English/resources/research/education.asp I will flip your claim and say, immigration and multiculturalism is making Canada a more educated society: -on average, immigrants know more about our history, geography and government than the average Canadian. Look it up if you don't believe me. -IMO, on average, people that know speak more than one language are smarter than those that speak only one language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_advantages_of_bilingualism Immigration is also helping to reduce crime in Canada -crime is linked with education -immigrants from the largest source countries are under-represented in our prisons

Yes, you are correct. Good thing that I never made that claim. As MH pointed out, your claims are false. Here is another real benefit to multiculturalism: http://www.folklorama.ca/

How about we just start with that. One advantage of living in a multicultural society like Canada is a wonderful selection of ethnic restaurants. Now, can you name a disadvantage that outweighs this benefit?

They do it on Little Mosque... People do it in real life all the time. Here's one person: http://www.canadianmomeh.com/open-letter-to-pauline-marois/

It is very difficult to produce measureable advantages of multiculturalism. To me the evidence that Canadian multiculturalism is advantageous is the fact that Canada is successful relative to almost all other countries in the world. I would ask your brother: what are the real, measurable disadvantages of Canadian multiculturalism? Another question: Let's say you are a skilled worker/professional and want to relocate to a different country with a very different culture for whatever reason. All else equal, would you chose to live in a multicultural society or a non-multicultural society?

Who the heck are you talking about here? These people do not exist in any significant numbers in our society: "According to the 2011 census, 98.2% of Canadian residents have knowledge of one or both of the country’s two official languages" http://en.wikipedia....uages_of_Canada I agree with you but here's the twist. IMO and experience, immigrants and first generation Canadians value Canada MORE than the average Canadian. They typically know more about Canadian politics and history. The certainly appreciate (do not take for granted) Canada's security and economic opportunity and inclusiveness.

Here are some studies: The first two suggest 350,000: http://www.td.com/document/PDF/economics/special/ff912_immigration_levels.pdf http://ftp.iza.org/dp6743.pdf There is definitely room for improvement in our system: http://www.td.com/document/PDF/economics/special/ff0212_immigration.pdf But the government seems to be planning: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2013/2013-06-21.asp

Nice try. An argument could be made that immigration/multiculturalism policies have caused problems in many EU countries, I would probably agree. We are talking about Canada and Canadian policies. Your SUN article states: "What we have are people who immigrated to this country decades ago yet still can't speak either English or French." really? "According to the 2011 census, 98.2% of Canadian residents have knowledge of one or both of the country’s two official languages" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Canada Again, where are these Candian ghetos and where is this Canadian violence?

Where is this "anti-social" and "violent" behaviour? Where are these "foreign ghettos"?