Temagami Scourge

Actually, I believe that the cartographers simply draw it that way. China does the same with Tibet, and yet we know that is not the case. Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq never draw Kurdistan in their maps, and yet we know it exists, as do the Kurds. In essence, you are arguing that Canada has every right to act in the same manner as China, Iraq and Iran. Hummmm? Nice thought process. Where do I sign up for my Communist Party card. Judging from the UN's response to Indigenous issues, all the countries with an Indigenous population that predated new arrivals from other continents have consistently opposed Indigenous rights and recognition. The main opponents are Canada, the U.S. and Austrailia. South Africa used to be among those three, but they've had a change of heart since the apartheid thingie. Be happy...at least China and Turkey support your ideals. Most of the land is Crown land now, and is being paid for through the agreements signed with the Aboriginal Nations here...just like any good leasor. That is recognized in the constitution, reflected in Canadian law, and -dare I say- known internationally. That's probably why Six Nations counts so many hyphenated-canadians among its supporters...because they generally have a more realistic view of Canada than say....you. you're right...silly me. I better tell the five doctors, two pilots and a couple of federal directors and one Deputy Minister who are my cousins that they should better mirror your experince. Shoot....I forgot my first cousin who recieved the Order of Canada! Damn...what a twit I am! Geez...all these intelligent and respectable people who also happen to agree with what I say... I don't need to, you pretty much put your views in print, and I can read you like a book, which is why i'm having such a good (and incredibly easy) time countering your "points". I once had the pleasure of watching a row of drunken cauco-Canadians pissing off a houseboat directly into the Lake I drink from. I also recall happening on a Cauco-canadian in a houseboat who asked me where the fish were at, because he wanted to set a net off the boat and hide it from the MNR. I once saw they Police Chief of North Bay come onto the Nippissing reserve to buy fresh fish from the Natives for a fish fry, and then turn around and complain about Native fish harvesting. Clearly, the problem lies with Cauco-Canadian double standards more than anything else. What I find most amusing, though, is how you say Natives should work, and then criticize them for having a fishing business. A tad contrary, aren't we? whoa there buddy...no less than a few sentences before you were complaining about the native fishery, and now you are wondering why they can't compete? come on now....get your thoughts straight...Having been to B.C., I know how much the non-native fishers revile the Native fishery, so how come you don't seem to have a clue that this is occuring? Cauco-Canadian fishers burnt down Native ships at Burnt Church for the same reason on the opposite coast. Are you sure you aren't an ESL grad? Are you new to this country, or did you start following the news in the past month? Finally...a point! Way to go lad! I even agree with you. Yeah, but I bet you look like the priests and reverends, and probably look like Pickton, Bernardo and Mayerthorpe Rozsko than I do. I tend to look more like Elijah Harper,,,especially when I'm wearing my suit and tie. You miss my point, lad. You are trying to talk like you are representative of all "Canadians", very much like the people who participated in the "March for Freedom"...even drawning on international recognition to support your perspective, as those "Canadians did". however, the rest of Canada happened to be enjoying a wonderful potluck on the reclamation site. A plethora of what you'd call "hyphenated-Canadians", as well as Cauco-Canadians. In essence, I have a hard time believing that you are representative of "general canadian beliefs", when it was made quite clear to me that most of Canada sided with the Natives that day...by actually showing up. Yes...and most of the multi's seem to take the side of the Natives. Disturbing thought eh? Maybe you should demand better border security, or find support for your cause among people of color. On one hand you say "benevolence", which means out of the goodness of one's heart, and then go on to explain the actual legalities of the situation. which one is it? please...can you tell me what the name of the war was that determined the take over of the land? Here I thought I knew my history, but you present a version that I'm not familiar with...enlighten me.

The other salient point River, is that GRE does not charge tax on their cartons of cigarettes, which is why there are so mant smokeshops on the rez. The RCMP knew that non-natives were coming to the rez to buy cartons by the van full, so they "guesstimated" the amount of money changing hands on Six Nations, and threatened to use the Mounties to close down the plant unless the government received a portion of GRE's annual income to represent "lost" taxes due to all the non-Natives buying cigarettes there. It certainly pays to be the biggest gang around, don't it. Additionally, GRE has to have a Mountie present at their factory at all times. I know of no other Canadian business that needs this much monitoring, so I guess it doesn't pay to be Native. Oh yeah, I'm sure that you'll interpret this as yet another rationale that natives do everything illegally, but the Mountie's main job is to monitor the cash flow so that RevCan gets its cut. Do bear in mind River and G-man, that the laws are somewhat different than what you know as the norm in mainstream...although I'll give the Bam-ster credit for touching on that point briefly.

I know, they are paid by a company run by a number of Six Nations entrepreneurs. Hence, this company alone gives the government of Canada three times more money than the Federal government transfers to the community as a whole . Of course, there are many other businesses that are run from Six Nations and incur income from off-reserve, so they too pay taxes...as are the people from Six Nations who commute to work in Toronto, Hamilton, Cambridge, Guelph and (gadzooks) Caledonia daily, as they pay taxes too. So, in reality, the $140 million that GRE pays is only one portion of what the community pays as a whole. However, I suppose that you'll cry out that taxes on income are really MERC expenses, so because they are mandated then they don't count either. Yeah right. Roll another one...

No you didn't. You were telling me that the $140 million that Grand River Enterprises pays in taxes to the Feds aren't really taxes. I maintain that taxes are taxes. If you go to Encarta, it says that duties(n) are taxes. My Thesaurus tells me that another term for "duties" is taxes too. ...and before you make another foolish point, "levy" also means "duty" and "taxes" too. So don't say that these are levies. A tax is a tax, and ONE Six Nations business alone gives the Government of Canada over three times what the Government of Canada transfers to Six Nations as a whole . give me a "booyah", Jim.... BOOYAH....

Here are a couple more salient points to chew over..the following points came from today's Hamilton Spectator: In essence, Six Nations is footing the bill for having people stay at the site...and will even pay the province, and the province is looking to issue a whole new set of welfare payments to the "poor, downtrodden" Caledonians. I guess the millions given to Caledonian people and businesses (which Six Nations people were boycotting, and obviously impacted the town) during the first round of "civic welfare" just wasn't enough for the poor, suffering Caucasians being "oppressed" by the loathsome Native protestors...all 15 or so of them that actually stay there 24/7. Which brings up yet another excellent point. When Caledonia first cried so loudly of their "suffering" it only took the province 100 days to fill the pockets of private citizens and businesses in Caledonia. The Cauco-Canadians folks in town looked like a bevy of starving Ethiopians with their hands stretched out looking for their cut...and then they'd turn around and call the Natives welfare bums. Ya gotta love having it both ways! I always heard the phrase that "it pays to be white", but I never thought it more than a jest until I saw all those Caledonians crying for their free money. Cripes...that sounds soooo Riverwind, one would almost think he took up residence there!

River: I'll make sure that these comments go right up on the mantel with your other ones from the other day....You know, the ones where you rail on left-wing protesters for thinking that money goes on trees to pay for social programming, only to have the current government announce yet another surplus winfall today...and its climbing higher too. As I said, you like to base your arguments on what you think should happen, not on what currently occurs. That, or you do the old "well you natives brought poverty on yourselves, so if you had a real job then the problem would be solved" to getting upset because Native entrepreneurs are paying out more in taxes than the Feds give back to the same community. I guess the rest of us are left with the impression that anything Natives do is wrong, and that they are somehow "superior" than you because they know where the best fishing holes are. ...and you wonder why I think you are tiresome.

River: The "duties" are taxes. The smokes are mainly going off reserve here in Canada...it is only recently that they've been going to the States and now, the German Army. That is where the duties you refer to come in....and will mean even greater amounts of money being paid out, while less goes to the First Nation in question. Still, that annoys you that natives are paying out in taxes three times what the Feds transfer to them. Ruins a bunch of stereotypes about "them tax-exempt injuns", but that is what garners me the reputation I have around these here parts... The other point is that for a guy who has long maintained that natives need to participate in the economy, you sure don't seem to appreciate it when they do. I guess us poor Injuns just can't do right by you. I assume my only recourse is to wait for Brad's auntie's mittens.....

Avoid the point? This is the first time you actually made the point...and on top of that, you are trying to say that ALL Natives are mired in poverty. That is as assinine as me saying that all Whites are rich and intelligent, of which you appear to be neither. However, I understand from what you said that you haven't got a clue as to how the Canadian system works. I pay my taxes hoping that the government of Canada actually lives up to its treaty obligations, as that is how our system is designed. Ottawa sends a few bucks towards the Natives, but no where near enough to help other than to build a couple of houses every year and to get some prescriptions filled using generic drugs, instead of the kind that are available to other Canadians with a drug plan. Most of the billions Ottawa sends to natives actually goes into paying the wages of Indian Affairs employees and to cover office rental space and other infrastructure. Anything left over goes to First Nations to keep their roads from crumbling. Ottawa uses the same type of transfer payments system to flow money to the province, who flows it to the municipalities, who happen to rake in three or four times the amount per capita that the Natives get. Now, one of the reasons we pay our taxes is because Canada has signed agreements with the Aboriginal people in this country that were made in exchange for the land we live on. However, non-Aboriginals get more per capita than the Indians. Why? Indians do pay tax....I know I do...I also know that Grand river enterprises on Six Nations pays over $140 million in taxes on the cigarettes they make because many of those smokes are sold off-reserve. The entire reserve gets just under $40 million in transfers from Indian Affairs....so, you tell me, who is supporting whom? If you don't understand what I've just written, then I can always type slower to accomodate you.

Yep...nothing I like better than having an ESL grad telling me to get a job.... I guess all I can do now is make sure I'll give the Cauco-Canadian bums I see on the streets in downtown Toronto a buck to adjust for inflation. Keep the mitts coming and we'll call it square, eh?

Brad: Oh no...not another Riverwind. Dude...instead of guessing about what the government "can" do, but has never actually done, why not stick to facts. All we ever here from you people are your utopian ideas of keeping Natives "in their place". Why not bother your Crown to simply live up to their end of the agreements, instead of trying to weasel your way out of getting something for nothing. What you say here is the crux of the problem. You want to "give" Natives stuff. You are trying to argue that -for reasons only known to yourself- that it is perfectly natural for Cauco-canadians to give Natives stuff. Personally, I'd gladly give up all treaty benefits in exchange for the land we signed away. You can even take all the buildings and roads the White Man "gave" to us....i'm sure it'll be a struggle, but I'm certain that we Natives could find investors to replace you. See above. Feel free. See ya later! I hear England is pleasant in the winter time. Heck no...I'd move out of the city and back on the land so fast that you'd need a stop-action camera to catch my leaving. I doubt it. I think there would be incredible anger that the international community is spending money on the natural resources the Natives hold, while the Canadian population loses out because its manufacturing base was undercut by Asia. I bet you forgot that part. I think you truly believe that Natives sit around all day waiting for government money to arrive. I'd caution you now because you are at the point where you believe that Natives think and act like you would, which isn't exactly the case. Oh....then why is it that non-native fishers on both coasts try so hard to stop the Native fishery? Would it have to do with competition? Why are non-Native loggers so upset with Native loggers? Could it be that they don't like the idea of competition? I do, that's why I'm rolling my eyes at your statement. Yeah...but you have to admit that your priests, reverends and other holy people had a hundred years of frolicking with Native children at residential school, so I think that your community more than made up for the "extra help" by creating generation after generation of Native people who only knew the effects of child rape. What a loving and caring country we have, eh? Forgive my honesty Brad, but two sundays ago, at a place called Caledonia, a group of Caucasians who called themselves "canadians" protested a substantially larger group of people at a place called Douglas Creek. The Native people had all kinds of people of color -black folks, Arab-Canadians, Sikh-Canadians etc. The "canadians" were a uniform white. After seeing this with my own eyes, I can't help but wonder about people like you who like to infer that they speak on behalf of the rest of Canada, when as far as I'm concerned, the "rest of Canada" stood with the Natives on that day. Realisitically Brad, you speak for a certain section of Caucao-canadians, and nothing more. sorry. How can you be so sure about something that never happened Brad? You do the same thing as a bunch of people here....you guess about history and ignore current reality. Show us the wars against the Indians. I'll even help you a bit.....the Little Big Horn is in the U.S. There...go ahead....

Brad: laddie.....would you mind telling me exactly which war (or set of wars) you are referring to? As far as I'm aware, you appear to be unduly influenced by American cowboy movies, but I could be wrong. Please...what Canadian wars do you mean? OK...now I know you are talking about American history. If such a "conquering" occured, then why does Canada even recognize reserves and makes (sparse) treaty annuities? Do you know anything about Canadian history or law?

Hey Deary: How come you haven't posted anything about Anne-Marie sickle's brother being deported? If the man is in Canada illegally, and taking work from a Canadian, then he should be deported. How come you haven't told anyone that this illegal alien, who has ben living and working here for the past few years, was part of the "March for Freedom?" Is that the kind of people that are attracted to anti-Native protests? Illegal aliens stirring up the pot for no one's benefit? Come on Anne-Marie...we need to know more about this man's deportation! Fill us in! Anne-marie made a wonderful post about how oppressed she is living beside the Natives, so why can't she answer a questions about her brother's illegal alien status, and how he kept a Canadian from working because he was willing to do it cheaper? Please...enlighten us all!

Argus: Hey...counting the number of times I have to refer to the Indian Act shouldn't count. I can't help it if your government has such an Act, so I have to refer to indians all the time. Just be thankful we don't have a Caucasian Act...although judging from some people here, it sounds like there is a preference for one to protect and consolidate "white priviledge". But that would be another discussion. I'm only disappointed that these Cauco-Canadians need to play on their race to say they are being shut out of what appears to be a strictly business decision. I believe this is either one large misinterpretation on the part of the losers, or a specific attempt to garner racial sympathy and stir up Caucasian blood against "the (insert oppresive race here) foe". Again, I at least feel sorry for the taxpayers of B.C....that they'll be footing the bill for this sorry event. apparently, you don't think this way Argus? Why do you put the taxpayer last?

Pocket: Actually, Health care was indeed one of the major points the treaties are based on, that, and housing, tax exemption and a whole host of recognized rights. Some treaties go into greater detail, the the above are the main points. I submit that the reason that we do have SIN numbers and Health cards is for ease of administrative use, and because the Crown unilaterally looks on Status Indians as citizens because the law the Crown made up on its own says so. Too bad no one ever asked the indians, but that has been the norm. I would also submit that these rights worked out to the advantage of Canadians in general as the exchange of land for rights allowed Canada to reap innumerable economic benefit from it, to what makes this country what it is today. The only disappointing thing is that the Crown has consistently failed to deliver on its treaty obligations, only protects Native people now that the world is cognizant of Canada's poor human rights record respecting Native people, and still can't do a good job of it. If anything, Canada got off cheap, and still reneges on its agreements for everyone else's benefit. I hope that helps you understand what's going on.

Deirdrie: Well honey, you have to admit that the only heavy mist hanging over Caledonia seems to be emanating from the hangovers of a handful of drunks. I think that the "level of tension" would greatly decrease once certain Caledonians put down the bottle and dry out a bit. I feel badly for the numerous decent, hard-working Caledonians -whether they are Cauco- or Native Canadians, or anyone else, who are "guilty by association" for having a few drunken Cauco-canadians living among them. After seeing the support we Natives had from numerous townspeople last Sunday, I reversed my stand about not shopping Caledonia, and I went to Zehrs to purchase food, and spend some money in town to help those who had their businesses impacted by the charges of racism hurled at the community. Cheers!

Having actually been at Kanestaton on Sunday, a number of us were quite amused by the fact that it pretty much took hotdogs and liquor to halt the rally. The important point, however, is that Sunday clearly illustrated the lack of conviction on the part of the anti-native racists in the rally, as compared to the celebrants at DCE. The fact that the rally's leader abandoned his flock at the critical point didn't help matters, and it illustrated how weak and pathetic the support was. But I have to extend kudos to the Caledonians who came out to heckle the rally. I'd say that the anti-ralliers made up about half of the five hundred or so onlookers. Given the fact that there were at least 2500 people on Kanestaton sharing food and stories, and that they stayed longer than their counterparts indicates a belief and sincerity that the ralliers lacked. It is quite embarrassing. I imagine that some folks are upset at the embarrassment the rally's abject failure turned out to be, but many folks thought that the rally would do good if a few dozen folks showed up, but I had to laugh at the "20,000" mad Canadians expected to "set matters straight". Speaking of Canadians, I took a drive by the rally on Sunday before going over to DCE to see how our neighbours were doing at the rally. I was struck by two things: 1) There was barely a smiling face at the rally. Everyone looked sullen and hostile, and pretty much acted so, and; 2) The only people of color were either with the media or with the OPP. Comparably, on Kanestaton, there were Jewish folks standing with Arab people, Sikh's, Afro-Canadians, Asian Canadians, Cauco-Canadians and a host of Natives, many from other reserves, and places like Hamilton, Toronto and London. Everyone was smiling and laughing, they were courteous with the Police and the people driving by, waving and offering words of greeting even if some people gave them the finger. Most honked in support, and it made everyone feel good. These get-togethers are something special. it's too bad it had to happen under such disgusting circumstances, but it was wonderful having so many Caledonians standing with their Six Nations neighbours. It really goes to show who believes in their cause to Ontario, Canada, and the world. Way to go, Canada! thanks for standing with us on the 15th!

River: So you agree with my perspective that this is just another cheap ploy to play the race card? wow...I thought I would never see this happen? What have you done with the real Riverwind? Give him back!

River: Wrong? Hardly... the businesses only started playing the race card after being served their notice of non-renewal. The only fact they have is what they made up afterwards. Secondly, we hear nothing in the media about whether or not there were already agreements made between the new mall owners and the new renters. Why was that not reported? If a prior agreement was established, then the old businesses had to go. If they misinterpreted the new owners intentions, then that is their problem...but the real problem is that they chose to play the race card because they didn't get their way. To me, the only losers in this whole, sorry affair will be the taxpayers of B.C., who'll now have to foot the bill as this issue works its way through the system, guzzling money as it meanders along, and all because of the racial agenda of a special interest group. Typical of the Conservative era we live in.

This is disgusting. Again, we are faced with a small element in the Cauco-Canadian population trying to play the race card in order to justify their own failings. The article in the Globe clearly said that there were businesses willing to pay more to rent space...far more than the current businesses. The worst crime the Canadian businesspeople committed was that they didn't provide a rationale for the non-renewal of the leases, but then these hotheads sound off using the race card to elicit sympathy. What's next? Calls that the system is now experiencing "two-tiered economics"...one standard for Cauco-Canadians and another for other Canadians? give me a break. The problem is that too many Cauco-canadians have been brought up believing in a "culture of entitlement", where it is somehow their god-given right to expect everything to go their way, and the minute they are found wanting, they make excuses for their poor behaviour. Fortunately, I know many Cauco-canadian people who don't have to play the race card to make their way through life. They run businesses and are keen to the needs of their customers, which is the basis for their success. I suggest that the three B.C. businesses learn to properly cater to their customers and let that speak for itself, instead of crying "Oh poor white me!". It is embarrassing to the rest of Canada to stand for such pathetic whining.

Ok...Now this is damn funny..... I couldn't stop laughing at this letter. In essence, it is a plea for people to ignore whatever Natives are saying, and it clearly shows that the impact Native folks have had in their writing on the Caledonia dispute has been very effective, whether it is a letter to the Editor, or on online forums everywhere. Secondly, the letter is typical of the type of "selective facts" that has been driving Aboriginal people from across Canada to undertake letter-writing and posting on forums. For example, we hear that Natives "attacked" elderly people, but without the proviso that the same "elderly" people actually stopped and began purposefully provoking protestors with racial epithets, but the writer does not point out that non-Natives have taken to mocking the clanmothers and Chiefs (people who have been forthcoming with information to their own people in a manner that is no where near emulated by the mainstream government and the people they supposedly represent!) online and in the print media. No one mentions the rock-throwing on a nightly basis by young Caledonian drunks, and yet there are know a number of videos taken by protestors that clearly show the young drunks noy only hurling rocks, but also hurling invective. We have yet to see visual evidence of the Natives purposefully "terrorizing" their neighbours(which comes as a surprise since the Caledonians are now awash in money, and could likely afford a digital video cam that has infra-red capabilities!) The bottom line is that the letter illustrates the fact that Aboriginal people are winning the war of words on the Caledonia dispute, so much so that Caledonians are actually asking the mainstream media to emphasize non-Aboriginal opinion!

I agree with you Topaz. I would only add that I can't figure out the basis for the deep-seated hatred between Arabs and Israelis. To me, they are the same tribe. I know many Jews and Arabs and, being into anthropology, I can't help but notice numerous physical similarities. For instance, both seem to have curly hair more often than not, both have rather impressive noses, both have people whose eyes tend to bulge out, but to me, the piece-de-resistance is their language. Both languages are nasally-based, but certain words not only sound the same, but mean the same thing! Jews greet you with a hearty "Shalom", while an Arab-speaker will greet you with a "Salaam". To compare, the Cree greeting is "Tansi", while the Mohawk use "Sago"....and yet Canadians regard Native people in this country as being all one group! Given these similarities, one can argue that the Jews and Arabs were likely one Nation, and not too far in the distant past either if their languages are so strikingly similar. To see what I mean, take the opportunity to listen to Arabs and Jews converse among themselves...even some of the gestures both groups use when making a point bear a resemblence. fascinating if it wasn't so frightening....

Let's see. A native poster says "Muslims may kill innocent people with bombs but at least they don't rape children like Christians". In response, a non-native poster points out that "native children are abused by other natives". You respond with outrage at the second poster? What kind of bizarro world do you live in? Perhaps you should look in a mirror before you start calling other people racist. Lon: A word of caution: River is the kind of poster that often relies on Saturday morning cowboy movies as his source of "real" history. The one good thing is that he at least doesn't start his sentences with the phrase: "The Great White Mother Commands Her Red Children to..."

Are you capable of backing up any of your bullshit with actual facts. Every opinion is based "feelings" you have or your "wilingness to bet"! Spew racist crap all you want, but at least come up with intelligent facts and not stupid unsubstantiated uninformed ideas you have while sitting at the computer. I'm willing to bet your a fat whtie middleaged unmarried suburban jew. But thats just a guess. Lon: In my experience, fiction and myth are to Argus what a pillow and blankey is to a two-year old...something to hold on to with all your power because it is the only thing that you know that is your own. I disagree with your assessment of Argus being "a fat, white, middle-aged, unmarried suburban Jew" because that would be an insult to actual fat, white, middle-aged unmarried suburban Jewry. I see Argus as more of a "special" buddy that only requires a little guidance and "fact" every now and again. All I can say is don't partake in a battle of wits with Argus as he usually shows up unarmed. cheers!

River: Funny....I never see you say that about anyone condemning suicide bombing.... Oh...sorry, when you mention suicide bombing, then everything is OK....wow, it must be nice on that medication, eh wot? I agree...and yet they still did it. So, does that make them honorary Muslims in your eyes? You're right River...they just wanted a piece of the fat government contract to teach the innocent waifs. The raping part was the gravy.... Many? Wow...we've found something out about River that I've suspected all along! Yep Rive...do you even know a Muslim person? or maybe three? Even you'd bust my chops if I was to dare say that most "Whites" were evil or some crap like that. So...in your opinion, the majority of Muslims support suicide bombings and the killing of children? Wow...I would have said the same thing about you...but I would have used the word "threads". As far as I'm concerned, if people read our "to and fro-ing", I think that there might be a tad more concern about someone saying that "many" Muslims are suicide-bombing supporters, as compared to someone else who points out the fact that Christians raped Native children at residential school. That was a mighty brave statement to make about Muslims, River.

Mike: Very well put Mike. I get the feeling from listening to the doomsayers that all won't be well until every last Jew and Muslim sits down in front of the T. V drinking beer to wash down his(or hers) hotdog.