RB

It is about brainwashed economics, massive production of services and materials and recruitment of someone for consumption in order to create wealth for men. Women are the victims, and are in hot pursuit of ideal beauty. On the one hand, there is a sort of minimum standard of beauty but also it is not absolutely defined by the male hence the glances towards the magazines. What I meant is analogous to rising the standard of living, and amist raising income also come rises in the standard of beauty. For the males any opportunity to get the females inundated over ideal feminine beauty is oh! happy days. There are always new and updated products to think about, new modern conveniences in the gym, but it is mostly a culture that all women must participate, you want to live a woman’s dream…then you shall participate, a pressure to see what others are doing. Women look to the media to fit into a stereotypical bra, panties, whatever. A definition of a best dress woman is one whose dress is updated and does not seem to be strangely out of place, also that she is especially not out of shape. What I see is that the same problems we are trying to fix using the commercialise beauty products etc, constantly remind women visually that the female body can’t ever fit into those tiny bits of strings on the magazine covers, so we look again and try much harder. Oh I admit we like men to look at us, and women, well, they like to watch themselves being looked at .... OK, I can interpret that last bit to also mean women looking at women – it’s a silent outreach Look how many men on this forum can truly say I want to become a woman? even for a day Nice try, of course men are subtle in their motives, I didn't think men would genuinely confess to their aims or their sins.

Using your own argument Women represent half of the world's population and toil 2/3 of world's working hours. However, they earn only 1/10 of the world's income and own less than 1/100 of the world's wealth Forbes identified only 12% of the riches belong to women - thats a big gap between the genders The "thinking" and "judge" even when done independently is incorporated into practices so it might be freedom of thoughts but also have measurable results, and men and women do not have the same outcome Men are abundantly found in power, so a woman might think a man is not pretty but he would care less. What I mean is it does not influence his capacity to earn wealth or reproduce in their existence in power positions - yes they exist 80% of the time in political power positions in Canada On the other hand, men may think women are ugly; but women have no power to refute this, they actually don't have enough power to use the care less position, but more like they need to care more and will do what is necessary to look beautiful. Usage of judge, opinions, free thinking, it is not the same construct as it relates to man and woman. Also, guess who has the capital and seizes the opportunity to exploit those that have to care about beauty an add-on... A professor shared this experience of last week. In one of her sociology class, a film on women was being showed in class – I don’t recall the name but at the end of the film when the lights came on a discovery was made, there were no male in attendance for discussion. gasp! They all left. It goes to show even now the prevailing attitudes of males towards women and how sexism is still present. It also reminds the inferior women of who have power and who set rules. Not withstanding these males will be present in the workforce some managerial capacity shortly. Girls will look at videos of males Girls will look at videos of girls How about them males?

Look women will never know what they can accomplish by themselves if you insist high-heels will give them longer strides and make them run faster. And how is it men are allowed to judge women so severely when men walk around with their pot-belly, overweight self, balding, farting self, ego-centric self?. I mean what you think women want to sit around all day knowing they just are not going to have the desired beauty results and dreaming how to modify their being. I have a dream that this day I will have a • pretty smile because of botox • set of rocks because of silicon • nice ass because of liposuction • sexy legs because of laser hair treatment • ripple tummy more lipo • more curves equals more gym equipment • less weight equals more dieting • pretty face equals more visits to the powder room Women despise and loath themselves that they have to peep though: • false eyelashes • hair wigs • expensive breast • plastic smiles • walk on the edge with stilettos • garters & crutchless underwear • constricting clothes I mean I hope women emerge as the symbolic phallus they are, but use the head to think.

Do you think quoting a person’s name next to some writing saves and protect from infringement of copyright? I think Read was serious and posted lots for a long while – so is it likely that he knew the rules? perhaps an oversight of omission, or careless error then.. So now he was allowed to calm the outrage and he just got booted. Reference: Read: He usually attacks the idea of the poster but also never minces with incisive and penetrating words. Admitting, the postings were bold; but also the weak hearted did not formulate enough wisdom to neutralize the attacks but only submit to an eventual retreat and to console themselves, “oh, it’s a personal attack”. Any serious writer is a moralist as any serious writer should be. I vouch that sometimes not eloquently put; his postings were constructed with flamboyant imaginings. I mean, here is what we have - A society - And then there are the posters - we have conflicting needs - we wish to accommodate our conflicts - we wish to reject our conflicts - we wish to dispute our needs Look, I have learnt a while back to appreciate all kinds of writings literally and otherwise. When my daughter then age 4 was in Sr. kindergarten, I happen to be in the class while the kids were tracing over some real wacko letters in my mind was a waste of time and tax payers money and so I questioned it. Well, needless to say, instead of linear limitless thinking and the fastest way to get the perfect letter X, exposure to different styles would encourage all kinds of writing in all creative forms for the impressionable. I never forget. So, here are the Mapleleafweb serious posters writing about society, its issues and how they themselves fit into the scheme of things or how the issues fit. YES…it is one common theme with many variations, many different ways of writing and many lenses to look for a clearer vision. I felt the banning choice for both folks was between political incorrectness and disappointment.

I don't sometimes agree with the banning - rules are guidelines that we follow. There is something also called discretion. I mean 20% of the top 10 posters are banned and if I followed the bans correctly these were the all time #1 posters in terms of number of posts at the time of the bans. A fair measurement would be the more you post the likelier it is to get banned especially if you make it to the top 10. I don’t believe Maplesyrup was quite as dynamic as Read who justified his position taken on the various political realms. But also, Maplesyrup provided real thought provoking topics for discussion. I had only once queried a banning and that was the banning of Mr Craig Read who did not conceal his political phew. Goodness, he even posted his identity. Read provided us with engaging discussions, posit his strong opinion and responded intelligently to the debates. Hardly, the playground you see in the House of Commons. Now only recently, I happened upon this website www.craigread.com that reinforced my believe that Read was a very serious Mapleleafweb poster and very serious about his political views, enough so, to publish a new book America and Europe: Conflict and Power Maplesyrup, I think might also be such a person who is interested in politics to make a difference. I respect the final decisions made but also glad that we are given the opportunity of space to post our disagreement. Below find the letter written to Greg February 04 that did not really matter.

Yep, that's like really desperate.But sincerity is a start, if you accept the women individually as they were, and tell them they are beautiful they would not need to keep health industry and the beauty centres preoccupied - I mean the women are also sporting your money to fail in this beauty myth like: - reaction to cosmetics needs looking after - cosmetic surgeries have dangers - over use of diet pills - tanning machines increase likelihood of cancer - how about implants reaction - eating disorders - etc. Oh and don't give me the lead on about ugly women, because someone thinks she was good and special enough for them

Men make fools of themselves when they put orders to beauty. "Honey" is the number one endearment in North America. When you men are trying to seduce your women, give them the tag line Honey, all women are beautiful, but some are more beautiful than others Oh to the unanswered question, yes honey you are always more beautiful Could it be that all women are equally more beautiful?

Well Slavik44, if you are following my writing then you would know that I am mostly about economic inquiry as it relates to the female particularly. No I am not a feminist economist as they should be anti-sexist. The only double standard I see is between the males and females. There is a social construction of the genders. But the only one difference I know of between the sexes is the genitals. For me until social expectation confers that men are equal with women and it shows a respect with closure of gaps of discrepancies, I will reflect that men operate insidious along with their prejudices against women. Now I also don’t mind including other groups with the women’s quest to bridge and achieve economic, social and political equality and be on par with men. There is something about practicing capitalism. I mean we become interested in the intersection of the oppressed groups. Makes sense like others besides women can offer some cumulative voices to strengthen women’s position. So we are happy to include groups, blacks, shorts, gays, aboriginal, disable who are all looking for closure of gap and are heading for the equality axis. Oh dear, I do not support the constraint place on women to look beautiful, or for short men to be tall. I believe in principles and morals. You treat people as individuals, give them tools necessary to do well in society and allow them to succeed in life. This mean refraining from nonsensical group construction. Female beauty crises start and end in the media. The advertising of females as beauties perpetuates and exaggerates women own falsity. Where am I being hypocritical in saying that women, and short men should NOT feel free to define themselves to their own happiness instead of being bombarded with what is public justice of having their identity, characteristics, personalities define for them by some fad, culture, their men, their women. On a different note as it happens I love having men around. I don't think I can live without men - I am rather very comfortable with myself and very comfortable with men as they show up in any size, height, fashion, shapes, colors, intellect - sorry I am hardly the one to discriminate against short males

Maybe that I am seeking to force out dangers of my one-sided take on women’s issues and now short men. Well the short blanket is used as a symbolism and alludes to some warm comfort for short folks. I used the blanket because short men are stereotyped and as we know biases lead to erroneous judgements and generalisation. I mean short men are also predisposed to work, cancer, and other stresses of life. I think short people learn early that they have insecurities (oops an exception: Italians) and learn to put up a façade (hence the drawing of the knees) to take charge of their destiny-however successful. Now, we all think that "liberation" has been conquer, so put it behind us and move on. But, this is so not true. Obviously, from some of the statistics provided about short men in this discussion it only proves that short people are treated in a discriminatory way, and the results is some cost burden to them. What it means is that normal people (however short) have constraints imposed upon them and are restricted to operating efficiently as possible within this constrains. So the blanket is short but the person wants to be covered fully, so they have to be creative. Realise there is no substitute for being short. So, first how the short person see themselves. Second, the way they need to project themselves. Third, the way others see them. -Look, 3 separate lenses for one individual, isn’t life complicated as it were? -I mean the expectation conformed upon people is hardly truths about an individual person. -I question when does a person become an individual true to themselves. First I blame the masses of society. It identifies characteristics for people and make them act accordingly. Now, if behaviours and conformity whether by height do not match, guess what, there is no flow of equilibrium for stability. So no balance. Deviations such as height will indicate “adjustments”, “problems”, “health”, “abnormal”, well you get the picture. Men seem to have their romantic relationship forming curtailed with the opposite sex. Well I don’t have to explain about the importance of even one inch – is tabooed. For men whose adjustments differ substantially from group norm the scores tally up against them. They would fall into less social adjustment, and seem as not emotionally stable. Is this true of short people? No, but that is what the statistics imply. The messenger takes the blunt of this heavy burden. I find that the media has some duty in releasing people from their struggles. I want to call attention to the media create a social myth where all people are good, their intentions are good and that people in all colors, size, shape, wishes to promote good and that their obligation to do good rest on the good of all people. I would like to see exposure to economic transformation of society based on fair treatment and alteration of individual relationships of how we deal with people. I believe that all people can pursuit their creation of wealth without infringing on the rights and good of others. I have used the word “exposed” because every person needs to come to grip with truths. So the media is creative in its duty to separate and divide people into beauty now short “this” or “that” imaginings. So now we can caste our eyes on the media as we seek the media to successfully bury myths about short people and only portray the “pain” that causes it. Is that too much to ask? Sorry, I write and post just like that, its reflexive - even I sometimes disagree with myself when I have a chance to re-read - I shall try to spell check etc prior to post - I didn't do it this time - I mean someone else, Argus mentioned this problem before - so I admit to some weaknesses

Yep, it was meant to scoff. I mean if it helps there are cultures such as chinese, asians where the men are short, this western culture seem to impose this height ideal, and begs that short men especially become suddenly exposed.

Please! Please! Learn to flatter the beauty of a woman in some state of mediocrity. Know that she thinks she is absolutely not ugly but indeed thinks she is handsome You don't say. (I'm sorry about that, but it was too easy....I couldn't resist) yes, be careful of crafted words You err if you think there is a will in weakness. I mean even the weak would score over you if you think that the weak is strong. I like the usage of “weakness” because it shows by virtue of weakness women can railed in their inadequacy and destroy themselves. Realise that women are pressured to look a certain way, it is some mark assault on women that preys like vultures and gets eaten daily. I mean look at it this way we women name our orgasm as the epistemological mark of liberation, so why do we need to criticize it to suffer more, like why tint it with exceptions, putting markers of standards to defeat ourselves Here is what I mean, give power to the women they destroy their weakness when they see it: as in aging lines, cosmetics, dyes, slim shakes and I didn't think it was to please themselves mostly. I am fearful women are caught up in “catch” words such as love, beauty, honor, work, worth, cherish, obey, sickness, health = happiness For now, I would like to reject this “beauty” ideal and redefine beauty to mean “appearance”. “Appearance” means size, shapes, height, ugly, pretty, good looking, bimbos etc. Here is more, it would be great to have appearance listed as one of our prohibited grounds, so that we are aware of errors in judging people. Well, I must say I find it insulting that woman are seen as sex objects, manikins, staving themselves to death, to defy nature and try to please some man etc. We know in absolute term women will never conquer beauty. Women should be recognise for their true worth, and must seek to retain the dignity of themselves. And we have some duty to respect this...without impositions

I mean who is going to change heredity, so I can’t be apologetic for the short cut facing short people. But in short what your information is saying is that the short ones are short change, in the long and short run. On pondering this on short notice, well all I can say is try to stay positive. For challenge people with height, there are lots of success stories around and the echoes remain with us for those small victories even when short-lived. Look, just try not implicate yourself as short, otherwise you will short change, and sell yourself short. To bring it up short, the long and short of it is, if you are short list for jobs, be encouraged not to be short with yourselves, or short change yourselves by selling yourselves short, otherwise you will have a short fall as you fall short. Then likely, you'd be encouraged with short tempers which leads to being short with others, and then it will be down to the short strokes where you will be had by the short hairs, in very short notice. But don’t be dismay folks, be humble and be yourselves. Look at it this way, you are short blanket, and when tug on it your toes become a demanding radical, you yank it down and you start the paroxysm about the shoulders. Smart folks manage to draw their knees up and experience a most comfortable life. To cut it short if you run short, others definitely stereotype the word “short” as well, short, in short they just want to try to cut you short and that is why you always fall short. To PocketRocket - sorry, si senor it is "Houston we have a problem" Its just that I am short lived here for now but will reply

I am talking about comparison of women from the old movies to present day. At some point there was no pressure to be thin, even further back venus de milo was not thin. I was suggesting that at the one point time where women were mothers, housewives, cooking for their husbands, awaiting their darlings coming home from a hard days work, forgetting about their person and making every effort to see the males are happy, that even when they are laying next to the husbands and fearful to voice “is that all” is what you called conditioning. There was simply no anxiety for beauty. Since the answers of equality and liberation came up for women, a new condition of beauty is requirement of the day. I think that men have parallel and replace beauty for women's freedom; so now women are still not free. Most of the media is owned by males and reflect the males’ opinions and agenda. No I don't think, and yes its not as simple as that. Women are not going to bother because the entire socialization processes need to change or the media need to take a different approach which is highly unlikely as there is power capture here. Look, women have real motives such as intellectual aims, real capabilities, ambition, and a quest for power but always achievement loses to measurements and is always incompatible with femininity. Women don't get to make rules, they are govern by them. I mean the high expectations of women are contrary to the ideal of the entire planet. Look take some male characteristics and interchange them randomly with the female characteristics Male traits -silent -strong -powerful -smart/intelligent -dependable -hero -manly -discipline -strength -breadwinner -high status -high ideals Female traits - gentle - trickery - docile - caring - naïve - romantic Huston what do you have here? “freaks”. There is social cost that is intensified for non-conformity. So you are a woman here are the measurements currently - beauty is order of the day.

One can never have enough of the vibrant speeches of Martin Luther King Jr. I saw a 30 min. B&W documentary last night is still reverberating in my head "I have a dream". We who in engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. Martin Luther King Jr Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Martin Luther King Jr Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it. Mikhail Bakunin

She might have meant whats up with the picture of a kitten. Look folks, if you want hugs from the chancellor, head off to Toronto. We give away hugs on graduation, I know as I have graduated greater than several times and have had hugs galore. The first time is the best. Ms.Hole must have made a difference in graduates lives then.

Look at the differences of communication between the sexes on seeing the lovely lady image Girls response: - nice shoes - cute outfit Boys response: - wow how hot - damn she’s hot - nice legs - she is horny I was at the stop light the other day and had enough time to observed a bus shelter poster, a very imaginable female naked obviously wearing only a pair of jeans occupying the entire bus shelter – don't want to butt in, but I guess a fellow could miss the bus several times staring at such an image. 73% of women are offended by the media fostering images of sexism, but only 8% write, 13% phone to say they object even when 3 of 4 women would discuss the offensive material at some point - so that's a shame A man puts a value on every acquisition he makes and as he seizes beauty assignment of high value, so women backlash when?. I mean the media has not define for us yet what a "dyke" looks like aging, maybe then? You couldn't choose by picking any women CEO, there are only a limited few - if you didn't know, we are fashion goddesses we know about performance, much more about how to work with fishnets rather than network into very senior positions, like we are hardly given the opportunity

Of course there is differences if greater than 80% of Muslims are 1st generation immigrants, their roots are still somewhere else. In order for people to be successful in this economy they have to adopt to the Canadian culture. They have to be open to learn new things, not haul their old burdens and place it on the shoulders of free people. If you compare the Jewish women with the Muslim women as entrepreneur - the difference is ridiculous, and the conclusion is that Muslims need to integrate, and assimulate into mainstream to be successful not bring some old law and backward practices Argus is right in measuring the success of people with the creation of wealth and how much people can contribute in the economy. Otherwise a burden exist on others to make some people happy. And I am paying enough taxes as it were. I know for a fact that some of the degrees in the third world equivalent would be somewhere about a 2-3 college level education. If the language skills are poor, then life become difficult. language eduation, reevaluation of education, retraining, job skills or order of the day for immigrants to be successful. I mean why do you think those 55,000 immigrant engineers are not having work, first their experience do not translate in the Canadian economy and is 30 years behind, plus their education is not recognise, and plus they have a language problem, then comes other problems with the internal systems in Canada. It is difficult to tell someone who has attended university for x number of years here is a level of education reevaluated, it is shocking and I am afraid I have met too many of these shock people.

Tawasakm Happy birthday wishes to you don't worry about getting older the secret about staying young is simply to lie about your age. There are lots of women nowadays who are not gay but also choose not to have children are they also self-centered? I mean no one can or should enforce such a rule or burden upon a man or women to "breed". About beauty, as far as I am concern this beauty notion has nothing to do women at all if you did not figure it. Look at the old movies prior to women attaining some freedoms beauty was not on the agenda. It’s a conspiracy. And I attribute a greater burden of guilt to men. The beauty ideal is to keep women in a depressed state and if the intention is to create public panic well men have succeed in having every woman a fanatic and blinded follower. After all, the images you are bombarded with of women is a infectious cute culture created by men, and as we have observe it forces and drives women wild to act and look a certain way. I wanted to question whether this beauty notion is women’s final hurdle to all freedoms? Maybe it will be the greatest of the last challenge. I mean we have gone from being wives to spouses with careers, allowed to vote, occupy key position decision-making jobs, have some political freedoms, influenced and changed laws etc. No doubt, women want to be equal with men, to indulge in some powers. But somehow men in their insidious ways still want to retain their control and power. So of course men are still the controllers of the media and occupy other key areas and their objective is to keep women “cornered”. It is difficult to shake-up and destabilises the men’s world I say. The beauty ideal is a round about way of having women strive for the unachievable and take away a concentration of “time” from challenging male domination. To put it another way these beauty images are used against the women themselves.

find other avenues to speak out. sorry continuing ... I could not resist adding to send the folks over to the provincial politics section to engage them in the reinstating Employment Equity in Ontario - now that would do them some good

"racial prejudice"? ok cool it I can proffer an explanation. Usually we find cases where people accused others of being racist. "Race" does not only mean a color, but also it means race association of language, orgin, creed, religion, sex. It is one of the reasons you see the human rights complains usually have this common list of 5 in most of their cases. I have observed a difference between the Muslim men and women and the way they dress, but I of course attribute this difference to their sexuality or sensationality. I mean the distinction is the preoccupation with their lots of hair. The more hair the women can hide the sexier they appear, and the more hair the men can prance about and display lavishly the sexier they are. I clarify, I have no troubles with the way anyone carry themselves with their clothing. But I can sure make a distinction of clothing to being unemployed however nicely an employer rejects someone, there are safety concerns sometimes to deal with and the unemployment rates are proof of this. Or maybe they are facing hardship and would like to use their own system. I mean Muslim women are worst off than Canadian women for sure. Their income hover about 20k per yr compare to 32k I mean only 38% of Muslim women participated full time in the workforce, the rest 10% was part-time and causal. None of these dominated in the professions they are so educated to fit into and are found in sales, cashiers and clerical. 57% of the Muslim women take care of children while they seek employment. 90% identify they belong to this struggling group “visible minority” We are glad they are well educated, then its time to use it – if they are that smart they definitely would not reconcile with Sharia but find other avenues to speak out.

theloniusfleabag Least you acknowledge that men strive for superficial beauty which is mostly unattainable, but the media has much control over women's life, what they strive for and the sorrows that follows. I mean look at this TV line up pairing, nothing, hey nothing wrong with these fellas Michael Hardner Posted on Jan 13 2005, 04:43 PM

I think that the muslim women are seemingly uneducated because they are amongst the highest level of the unemployment rates and actually double the unemployment rates for women overall and also exist in relatively poor paying clerical jobs. Plus I am afraid to say they are also not Westernise in culture e.g. dress, and the images we have of the regions they are from do not jive with education. It is stereotyping but it exists. But, I believe that we should take a look at and examine Sharia law to understand these women in order to help them. So education for Canadians to understand Sharia to assist the muslim women better understand Canadian laws, as it take to a reading. Right now the Muslim women believe in a law they understand, Sharia. I believe though that Canada laws are paramount to all women and that we do need to uphold a universal law for all our women. I would hate to see bureaucracy take over our Canadian family law, just hope that Dalton McGuinty is a lawyer he is when he becomes insightful. I believe that promotion, awareness and increase education for Muslim women would make them understand what it is to be liberal, to be free and to have a voice. After education I would like to know what are the divorce rates among the Muslim women, heck, I forgot a whole lot of them have to divorce the same fellow.

"why is there always a queue for the women's room?" "Why do women take more time in the washroom than men?" Men always get a little insecure when women group together. There is a couch imaginary and real in the washroom to take a break. I have gone greater than several times into the men's washroom, it really did not make sense to join the long lines but also there was always a "Sue look out". The men are of course gentlmen, ladies first. Also, I am not sure that men uaually mind a woman stumbling into their washroom is rare Women mind because they are still not liberated enough and are mindful for example women are still private about having a menstrual cycle, and is hidden even from other women.

It is Ironic to see the disappointingly "contradictory expectations" I mean when a women succeeds they usually end up with Hillary or Thatcher type bodies. Do you see these folks as attractive, sexy, hot women, seductive and pleasing to the eye? Speak your truth guys. Such gross injustice to promote and embitter women lives. Women are harnessed by man to accept that body and love jive together, an agenda and purpose in life for all men, (well, the gays I am glad they exist, because at least some women are free, less men to gaze upon women). What is missing and we seemingly forget that the mind= power=control=happiness can also be attached. It is not just about beauty Men are the reason for women being peceived as senseless. Look now, if women’s order was to please men. Understand this, men, that this insidious encroachment of the female stereotype, lipstick, high heel, boobs job, blow job, are all, well .. eagerness to please only you. I wanted to reposition beauty, and that is not the only ingredient to be a pleasing female. Posing and modelling trying to reconfigure and remodel us as perfect women to the males does not guarantee to bring sexual liberation to the females either. Those fools we deal with everyday. Reality check, look it, women know men are more likely to submit at anytime to their testicles. So they might as well sure to use some of their intelligence for this once. I’ll tell you what though, men are unreasonable in anything they cannot afford themselves. So they perpetuate and revolve around beauty, the .3 ideal women in all their heads is order of the day and a benchmark for all women. Beauty measures of high standards are imposed upon all women and men define their women by their acceptance or lack of acceptance. Men tell us 95% of the time to try and look better, you are never normal, based on the ads and also through those private moments and your divorce rates. Now, women are expected to operate within those constrains – no wonder they are a bit devious, and what I can say is I am never apologetic for the tramps, puritan or silliness you wind up with and deservingly so.

thats something, because in some professions like the lawyers de-robing is still gender separate and thats where all the networking and decisions get made