Hydraboss

I've been to MDS labs many times, since they do most of the bloodwork for Ontario, and they have always been polite and quick. I'm usually in and out within ten minutes. However, they messed up some test results and I had to go back three times before they got it right. My doctor was furious and his nurse said that they'd had a lot of problems with the lab. One of their maternity patients was told she had prostate problems, so figure that out. Human errors can happen anywhere. I have also spent a great deal of time at both our local public hospitals, and they have always been efficient; I have never been treated badly and have the utmost respect for their service. It's not perfect, and they are often short staffed, but this only began when Tony Clement (Ontarians know him as Two-Tier Tony) and the rest of Mike Harris' 'Whiz Kids' (including ironically two other Harper cabinet ministers: Flaherty and Baird), started their slash and burn closing down of hospitals and reduction of nursing staff. I still believe that public is the best and also believe that it is fixable. I Just don't believe that Harper intends to fix it. His financial backers would never allow it. Nocrap, I agree that the majority of care in public hospitals is good. Not great, but good. But let me tell you, the screw-ups you experienced at the lab is only the tip of the iceberg. As some on this board know, my wife is an RN at the University of Alberta hospital (purported to be the best in Western Canada) and we have friends at the Foothills Hospital in Calgary. Believe me, if you sit and have a few drinks with the RN's and Respiratory Therapists that work there, you will hear horror stories of what goes on...sheer incompetence. It's no different at the private labs. The level of care you receive is no better at the top hospitals in the country. For me to tell you that private care is better than public would be fallicy, when referring to care skill level. The people working there were trained at the same schools. What is different, however, is the way the systems are administered. Public "health centers" (hospital, clinic, whatever..) have no accountability. None. There have been so many cases of professional misconduct and incompetence causing complication and even (maybe!) death, that my wife would never allow my own kids to be admitted unless it was under the care of her or one of our friends. The private system forces staff to be accountable for their actions. They are privately employed, and therefore can be privately fired if their actions reflect poorly on the corporation pulling the strings. And before anyone jumps on me asking for proof of my comments of inadequate care, understand that I am not privy to patient or staff names involved, only circumstances, as disclosure from medical professionals (even my wife) to me would be illegal. So if you want to call BS, do so. If you want first-hand information, ask anyone who works in a critical care unit (ICU, PICU, Pediatric Cardiology, etc), and if they trust you enough to tell you, you will hear stories similar to what I am saying.

Good. Why a plane and not a boat? A slow boat.

"NAME ONE !!!/" Shouldice Clinic - Toronto MIC (Medical Imaging Consultants) - Edmonton Miseracordia Hospital (public) Emergency Room (private!) - Edmonton Gimbal Eye Centers - Edmonton and Calgary Tawa Medical Center (xray, MRI, ultrasound, etc.) - Edmonton Every doctor's office in the country...

"If a proven cure was available anywhere in the world, we would sell our house if we had to, if it meant he could live a relatively normal life./" So you admit that you would use private health care if it was needed. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that he is doing fine. What I don't understand is the mentality that since you don't need the services of private providers, it should not be allowed. But by your own submission, private would be fine if it benefitted someone you love. Hipocracy at it's finest.

Hicksey, it's not that a paycheck isn't enough to do your job. However, to expect people to excel at their jobs and hopefully motivate them to improve and expand their duties, there has to be the carrot in front of the horse. What I have a problem with is when people expect large increases to an already grossly bloated paycheck without delivering on their part of the bargain.

Margrace, if your daughter is an RN, then she knows the answer to the staffing problem. Why do nurses (and doctors) go to the states? Why are almost all the new grads on my wife's unit working for six months to a year here, gaining experience and then leaving for the US? For nurses, they are treated better in the private hospitals and they get hourly rate bonuses for almost all their courses. ALS, PALS, EKMO, Transport, etc... Each is worth from $1.50-3.50/hour extra. Working conditions and money. Same with doctors, only you can add the funding for private research to that list. Working conditions and money. When Canada finally gets to the point of private hospitals (widespread) you will see Canadian doctors and nurses stay in Canada. And you will see US doctor and nurses coming to Canada. The public system can't/won't supply the two things that these professional groups need/want, but you can bet your a** that the Americans do.

The problem is, you and I are their employers so they view it as a perpetually-flowering money tree. While I like the idea of snivil servants only receiving inflation-based raises (because I don't like them), I would not go so far as to say that no one deserves more. Anyone that can justify a larger raise should get it if their employer feels that it is earned. If the employer does not feel that way, tough. Find another job where you will be appreciated. That's how life works when you're a grown-up.

Hell, if Monty lives near the border I'll put a slant rig on the Alberta side and go horizontal right under him!!

"It does take many years of education to become a teacher though, and they need to be rewarded for their opportunity cost./" Four years. That's all. Not six, or eight. These are teachers, not University PHD professors. Or medical specialists. Agreed on the inflation-linked raises. Good luck with that though.

To all, I apologize for the hijack.

I am a teacher. I teach from 8:30 until 3:45. That is purely class time, the lessons do not plan themselves. In my first few years teaching I never finished my planning and marking before 9PM. I can now afford the luxury of watching a hockey game in the evening if I so please. In the summers I typically spend between 20 and 25 hours a week preparing for the coming school year and making changes due to new curriculum. A babysitter already probably makes more money an hour than a teacher. Just using the Calgary board scale, a teacher with four years of university will never earn $70,000. To earn that much you need to have 7 years of university and 8 years of teaching experience. Collective agreement Do I sound irritated? Well that's because I am. I have worked in accounting and in financial services for a lot more money than I'm earning now. I have also never worked as hard at anything. Yet I have to hear know-it-alls tell me that I'm lazy and overpaid. Through two years of subbing and 8 years teaching I have only met a handful of teachers that I would term uncaring and lazy. a teacher with four years of university will never earn $70,000. From your link: Category D (four years education) 10 years teaching experience (150days/year or portion thereof)=$71749.00. 11 years teaching experience=$74683.00. Annualized salary of $118,216.06. Based on January 2007 Schedule. Just for clarification from a know-it-all.

No, it's a public school. If you read into the collective agreements, you will see the wage schedules move up every year and those base step-level salary numbers do not include the additionals such as being involved in "board approved" activities. The idiot that teaches phys-ed gets $4210.00 extra for leading the kids ski team for twelve outings. And if they take on the Christmas concert, lunch supervision, etc...$$$$$$! I thought these types of statements were BS until I saw the last couple of budgets FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD. It's absolutely ridiculous. I do the taxes for my inlaws, and I would be embarrased (for him) to tell you what the father-in-law makes as a principal. It should be called extortion. Really, so they get paid for almost every extra duty they do?How do the work to rule campaigns make any sense then? None the less, its trouble. Work to rule simply means that they won't take part in ANY extra-curricular activities. Intramurals, ski trips, field trips, Christmas concerts, etc. The kids get punished. What do they care?

I am a teacher. I teach from 8:30 until 3:45. That is purely class time, the lessons do not plan themselves. In my first few years teaching I never finished my planning and marking before 9PM. I can now afford the luxury of watching a hockey game in the evening if I so please. In the summers I typically spend between 20 and 25 hours a week preparing for the coming school year and making changes due to new curriculum. A babysitter already probably makes more money an hour than a teacher. Just using the Calgary board scale, a teacher with four years of university will never earn $70,000. To earn that much you need to have 7 years of university and 8 years of teaching experience. Collective agreement Do I sound irritated? Well that's because I am. I have worked in accounting and in financial services for a lot more money than I'm earning now. I have also never worked as hard at anything. Yet I have to hear know-it-alls tell me that I'm lazy and overpaid. Through two years of subbing and 8 years teaching I have only met a handful of teachers that I would term uncaring and lazy. The biggest problem facing teachers, in my opinion, is that the lazy, overpaid idiots get all the press and seem to make the lasting impressions on parents. The good ones (and there are good ones) just do their job quietly and nobody notices. That is unfortunate. But I talk to teachers (I have to, I'm now related to them) and I get disgusted. The brother-in-law doesn't even like kids. He admits that he got into the field for the time off. And he's not the only one. They all seem to share the opinion that they are owed more money for less work. Again...my kids school. The elementary students are dismissed for lunch at 12:05pm. They are kicked outside at 12:17pm. Not 12:20 or 12:21, 12:17 EXACTLY. That's not even enough time for kids to wash their hands before they eat. There was a major uproar from the parents about this. The school's reason? The teachers would not give up more of their time supervising kids. Not even if it put the kid's health in jeopardy (the washing hands thing). We (the Home and School Assoc) had to pay to bring in an outside person to supervise kids on the playground because it "wasn't the teachers job, and they weren't getting paid for it". Do I sound irritated? That's because I am. I pay for these money-grubbing civil servants that do little, but whine lots.

http://www.teachers.ab.ca/Salary+and+Benef...4+-+2006%29.htm Hope that works. Link to Black Gold Regional ATA CBA. Explain something to me. The kindergarten teacher at this school has been teaching the same course for 12 years. How much does the cirriculum change? Her course plan has not changed significantly in years. She does no marking. She is the "ECS Coordinator" and the Track and Field club. According to the BGR CBA: 2 years ECS education 4 years B Ed Top level at 11+ years experience =$78142.00+$4210(Coordinator)=$82270.00 non-annualized=$130,225.56 annualized salary And she's gone at 3:15 EVERY day. edit: These are based on September 2005 numbers. She makes more now.

No, it's a public school. If you read into the collective agreements, you will see the wage schedules move up every year and those base step-level salary numbers do not include the additionals such as being involved in "board approved" activities. The idiot that teaches phys-ed gets $4210.00 extra for leading the kids ski team for twelve outings. And if they take on the Christmas concert, lunch supervision, etc...$$$$$$! I thought these types of statements were BS until I saw the last couple of budgets FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD. It's absolutely ridiculous. I do the taxes for my inlaws, and I would be embarrased (for him) to tell you what the father-in-law makes as a principal. It should be called extortion.

How about paying teachers based on the amount of time they work? I am on the Board Council at my kids school, and in late December we did the budget review. The teachers in my school will be working 180.5 days next year. They also removed the zero level salary to attract more teachers. The "most economical" teacher (their words, not mine) in that building makes just over $70k a year. Lets do some basic math. Average teacher....8:15am to 3:05pm (and I won't take away for lunches, etc), Monday to Friday, 180.5 days FDE (full day equivalent)=1263.5 hours annually. $70,000/1263.5 hours = $55.40/hour Average Canadian....9:00am to 5:00pm, Monday to Friday, two weeks holidays, 40 hours/week X 50 weeks =2000 hours annually. $55.40/hour X 2000 hours = $110,800 annualized salary Who wants a raise for babysitting? And PLEASE don't give me the "teachers put in SO much time after school and weekends doing marking, etc...". Newsflash, the kids in the school do their own marking, and teachers are leaving tire marks by 3:15.

I couldn't disagree more. The vast majority of teachers are hard working, caring people who go out of their way to do what is best for the students. What criteria do you suggest using to evaluate teachers based on performance? As with you, I couldn't disagree more. With you. The vast majority of teachers that I have come in contact with (this includes my wife's family...almost all teachers and her father has been a principal for over 40 years) are extremely overpaid, underworked, lazy and couldn't give a rat's a** about the kids they teach. Ask me how well family get-togethers go with her family. There are two issues here: Teacher compensation and its relationship to their performance, and teaching as a profession being deemed an essential service. I believe this thread is intended to discuss the latter. Should teaching be deemed essential? Yes. As for the former issue? I would be happy to vent my total disgust with the members of this once-proud profession in the appropriate thread.

"Don't mistake this for anti-union rhetoric." It is. On my part. Teachers deserve NOTHING in the way of raises, or even right to strike until they agree to performance evaluations. Anyone with younger kids (elementary level) should take a close look at what teachers supply for the salaries they receive. Take a really close look. A teacher's position should be essential, but all it really is is daycare. Am I sour about teachers in general? Yep, and due to experience.

I agree 100% Spike. He did it in '93, and it's time he did it again. Anyone who disputes "violations of this" and "violations of that" has never sat in an emergency ward for four hours with an extremely sick two-year old in tears. Do that, and then tell me that you give a damn about "universal, one-payer health care".

Fixer, my wife is a registered nurse with a two year diploma from Red Deer college in Alberta. Most of her friends are nurses, and the issue of wages has come up many times (they being union and me being normal ) I know of what I speak. I know what my wife makes, and I know what her friends make. My numbers do not come from some web link, they come from facts, facts I am privy to. I don't know where you are, but there are no nurses making what you state they make unless it is their choice. Many of the RN's we know have gone to the states, usually for a period of three months to a year. That way they can take a leave of absence from their position instead of quitting. The US headhunters pay them well, pay their accomodations, and the nurses get to travel. Most of the ones we know go to Texas, Colorado and Hawaii. And as for your "facts" about the required training......BS. Go to www.cha.ca (Capital Health Alberta, includes the University of Alberta and the Stollery Children's Hospital where my wife works). They are hiring new grads with a two year diploma, as is every single province in the country. Degrees are preferred, but not mandatory. And there is no "internship" in nursing, there is only preceptorship. You preceptor while you are in school, and then again when you first start at your nursing position. Similar to a green-hand mentoring program. Unfortunately for you, your facts are all bullshit. Check any nursing union website and read their collective agreement; the true facts are laid out for all to see, including earnings schedules. Try the AARN or UNA in Alberta. p.s. - we also lived in south Vancouver, where my wife worked as an RN as well. And guess what.....same thing. Nice try.

Yes I do know what nurse's make and it is 35-40 thousand per year. They have as long a training period as getting a BA degree and many have a BA. in nursing. They work extended shifts and are expected to do all the dirtiest of work. I would figure a good nurse should be making around $55,000 to $60,000 per year, with some nursing specialists it would be $75+ per year. Nurse's aids are presently paid below $30K per year. If a nurse instead spent the same education to become a pharmacist they would make 3-4 times what they do now, and have better shifts. AND...nurses do NOT require a degree. A degree is only required if they want to assume a supervisory position (charge nurse, unit manager, resource nurse, etc...). RN's DO NOT do the "dirtiest of work", that is what LPN's are for (and it's Licensed Practical Nurse, not Nurses Aid anymore). Now, if an RN was a first year new-grad, and accepted a casual position (because she didn't WANT a 0.6, 0.8 or full time) and worked in a small community hospital where they only worked eight hour shifts (instead of the normal 12's) she could CONCEIVABLY make under $50k per year...but not likely.

Yes I do know what nurse's make and it is 35-40 thousand per year. They have as long a training period as getting a BA degree and many have a BA. in nursing. They work extended shifts and are expected to do all the dirtiest of work. I would figure a good nurse should be making around $55,000 to $60,000 per year, with some nursing specialists it would be $75+ per year. Nurse's aids are presently paid below $30K per year. If a nurse instead spent the same education to become a pharmacist they would make 3-4 times what they do now, and have better shifts. You are not even in the ballpark....not even in the city that has the ballpark. Alberta RN wages average...AVERAGE...$32.00/HOUR. Full time nurses (and there is more than enough full time positions available in this country) make approximately $75-80,000 per year. Go on...ask me how I know. (some people on this forum already KNOW how)

"By law, a 9 or 10 year old can stay home (after school for a couple of hours) by themselves. How do I know? I looked into it when my son was 10 and didn't want to go to after school care anymore. " A child can stay home alone as long as they take and pass a "Home Alone" (or equivalent) program. It is illegal, however, for a child under 14 to be in charge of another child under 14 without adequate adult (14!) supervision. I have only checked into this in Alberta, so I am not sure how it applies to the rest of the country.

Hey Drea, Let me clarify. My wife is an Pediatric Intensive Care RN, and gets shift differential for working nights. It also works out better for child care (provided by us). She prefers nights and remember that my kids are only 8 and 9 and therefore cannot be left by themselves (by law). And as for me......I have been on call 24/7/365 for the last 12 years. I go to the office during the day, but I go everywhere I am needed the rest of the days and nights. The next time you open your mouth, please use it to exude some form of intelligence. You could have just asked why she is still working nights.

I'm conservative, from Alberta, and have two kids..... When my wife and I had kids, she stayed home with them and then worked part time when she was able. She worked nights, and I worked days. Still like that almost ten years later. The kids were not exactly planned, but then I am an Alberta conservative....so....could you blame her?