Hydraboss

Newsflash for anyone that thinks US health care is expensive, and Canada's is one payer. You mean one taxpayer . Health benefits through my wife's employer..........$144 per month Health benefits through my employer...................$126 per month Health benefits through my province....................$ 74 per month 56% (or so) of my tax dollars to health................$Freakinridiculousamount Total.................................................................$344 + Freakinridiculousamount Healthcare based on a one payer system.............Priceless One payer my ass.

Uhmmmm....excuse me. Nurses underpaid? Really? Does anyone here actually know what a nurse makes? But I digress. Yes, the administration in hospitals is ridiculously top heavy. But you have to have medical staff to hire in the first place. Where, exactly, would you propose that we get them? This is the critical flaw with Captain Klein.

Occupational Health and Safety (Workplace Health and Safety) in Alberta does not acknowledge the CHRC decision officially. They see their rules (laws, actually) as paramount in the province (for any issues that fall under their jurisdictional responsibility). The Alberta Human Rights Commission (and therefore CHRC) in Alberta does not acknowledge anyone's rules (laws, remember?) as being paramount over their commission rulings. If you fail to abide by either, you and your company can and will be cited (fined, charged, etc depending on severity) for failure to comply with an Order. For those that may not believe this, please call 310-0000 in Alberta and ask for either department. And yes, my workers that want to wear turbans have the RIGHT to do it. And I have the RIGHT to receive an OHS Citation Order for it. Anyone want to guess how many turban-wearing new hires I have? I'm not telling.

One more.... Immigrants should follow the laws of Canada God, I wish I was just being sarcastic.

See this is the problem. They claim this is discrimination. What would be discrimination is allowing this to happen, giving one group higher status than another based on religion. That would be crap. They should all be fired like any employee that refuses to abide by safety regulations. Been there. Done that. Don't suggest you try it. I was the Director of Health, Safety and Environment for one of the companies that tried to take that route. Good luck...let me know how it turns out for ya. The CHRC decision made damn sure that I can't enforce the OHS laws that I am required to enforce. Figure that one out. I (the company) must make substantial changes to our operation (even if it shuts us down) to allow for turbans to be worn, or it's discrimination. Want a good one? The company I am now Director for received an OHS Order (bad!!!) for not following the section of the Code that mandates that I "must ensure that workers wear the personal protective equipment that is deemed necessary to ensure the safety of those workers". Wanna guess why? The workers weren't wearing hardhats. Welcome to Canada. Would you like to change our laws or have any special priviledges?

It's human nature for everyone to think they are smarter than people who make decisions that they don't agree with. Even the Sikh community states that the kirpan is a weapon (religious symbol or not). This is not in dispute. What IS in dispute is whether or not people, due to religious beliefs, have the right to carry these weapons. The debate is whether religious freedoms or law of the land take precidence. If the blades were plastic, this would not even be worthy of a thread. But they are not plastic, they are very real. So it seems to break out this way: 1) religious symbol vs weapon 2) religious right vs public safety 3) specific law for special interest vs law of the land And so, we choose. Both sides believe utterly in their arguments, and are unlikely to change. For me, the safety of my kids is paramount above ANY religious beliefs or rights or whatever you would like to call them.

Gerry, do you ever have anything of value to add or is name-calling your only ability? People can disagree in this country, as it should be. Point-counterpoint is the preferred way of having a discussion. Why don't you make a contribution to this conversation that doesn't begin or end with "bigot".

Cyber, answer for me the question geoffery posed earlier: Can I wear a rapier to my kid's school? No. But why not? No one has ever been threatened or injured in Canadian schools with one. What about a full-fledged sword? I am Christian, and during the Crusades it was acceptable for Christian knights to carry them. Would you have a problem with my kid wearing one? If you do, then you are a bigot, ignorant and intolerant.

Ignorant? Really.... Do you have the base intelligence to READ what a kirpan is, you fool? Of course murder is against their religion as it is ours. Can I carry a handgun wherever I want because I am Christian and don't believe in murder? No. Closer to a crucifix? Again; you fool. One is a knife, one is not. And for the record, the turban-banning issue was not public safety related. It, again, was a religion bucking the system so that it's believers did not have to follow the OHS Regulations. I was directly involved in a number of battles in Alberta over that one. Learn facts about the subject before you begin "your melodramatic ignorant grandstanding".

August, I do not see this as a Left vs Right issue. Any issue can be polarized. I am "right", but I know many "lefts" that agree with my point of view at work. Suprisingly, quite a few are those that I constantly butt heads with politically. While I can respect your point, I do not have to agree with it. And yes, thanks to MLW, we can have this discussion. p.s. - you are wrong Na, na, na, naaaa, na.

"The risk of potential harm is basically zero." Untrue. This is what I do for a living. Health and safety, which includes risk assessment, etal. The risk factor involved here is high, not zero. The hazard potential is lethal. Personally, I couldn't care less if a kirpan is a symbol of violence; it is a weapon. "Then, if some people want to have a religious school where..." Exactly. Want to carry a weapon? Start a private school. However, if you are in the public system don't even think about it. And yes, August, how a society treats a minority is one symbol of a civilized society. Yet no one ever gives a damn about the majority...you know, the rest of us. How come when any average, non-minority tries to stand up for his rights in this country he gets labelled the "angry white male"? Why not just "angry"? Would society not gain further from integration of the "miniscule portion of the population" somewhat? Not completely. Not entirely. Somewhat. Welcome to our country, here are some rules you should know (and follow).

Discrimination my ass. That is the defense of anyone wanting special privelage for anything. And as for the "bullshit", the kirpan IS a weapon. Look up the definition. As for your comparison to rocks, scissors, pens, etc..., these were not designed to kill. Kirpan's were. That is why they're worn. So get off your "special rights for special immigrants" high horse, and think of the people of this nation...ALL the people. Consider Chimera's recent post. I do remember having a pocket knife, but my kid would now be suspended or expelled for carrying it. But not a Sikh, never a Sikh. They'll just quote some religious belief and *POW*, now you can carry a sword, or a sword fish, or whatever you like. Don't dare oppose it or someone will call you racist. Go to their country and try this crap and see what happens.

I did say it. Go back through the posts. And the "kirpan thingy" debate is not because they're different than me, it's because of: 1) They are entitled to carry weapons into school. 2) Their religion is being given preferential treatment over other religions in this matter.

We don't ban POTENTIAL weapons. We ban weapons. Kirpans are knives DESIGNED FOR ASSAULT, and therefore are weapons. We ban weapons. So, you can't imagine any Sikh has EVER assaulted anyone in Canada with a knife. Are you serious? Really? Scalpels are knives DESIGNED FOR LIFE SAVING OPERATIONS. And yet, we are still not allowed to carry them into schools with risking being charged with carrying a weapon. And answer a question asked earlier in this thread: Would you have a problem with my kid carrying a Glock 9mm if my "recognized religion" said he should? Even though guns..ALL GUNS...are designed to kill? Would you let my kid hang out in the playground with your kid? I'll bet not. There must be a heirarchy of law in every country. Public safety is paramount over religious right. And it damn well should be. At least it used to be...

School kids are not allowed to carry scalpels because......THEY COULD BE USED AS A WEAPON! Scalpels are locked up in the bio labs, where they should be. Thanks for supporting my arguement.

"Ultimately if we take the rationale you people are expounding then, as the SCC says: "The application of a standard of absolute safety could result in the installation of metal detectors in schools, the prohibition of all potentially dangerous objects (such as scissors, compasses, baseball bats and table knives in the cafeteria)." Anyone want to rethink their previous posts?" A kirpan is a knife. A weapon. And knives HAVE been used to attack many people in schools. There should be no distinction between what TYPE of knife it is...it's a knife designed for assault (offensive or defensive). Baseball bats are bats. Not knives. Table knives in the cafeteria? What are they going to do? Spread you to death? And cyber, you wrote, "I find it incredibly insulting that it would even be implied that they'd use it as a weapon, it's nothing more than a religious symbol...and I imagine it would be incredibly sacreligious for them to actually use the item to commit murder or assault" Read about kirpan's. They are currently being used, so they're not relics. They ARE designed for assault. It absolutely would NOT be sacreligious for a person to assault someone with it. This whole issue is completely ridiculous. The SCC said it is okay for children to carry weapons in school. I guess my only hope is to tell my kid's school to update his record to reflect his new religion...and arm my son. And my daughter...why the hell not...they can't stop me now, can they? Do you think my kids will be disciplined and told to turn in the weapons? Let me think.........they're white so the school may not buy the whole "I'm a Sikh now" argument. Do you think the SCC will hear their cases? Not freakin likely.

Apparently kids have been carrying them to school since that is why the school went to the trouble of forbidding it.And Geoff, you (and others on this forum) have avoided the key question: Does anyone have any evidence of any incident from any school anywhere in which a kirpan was used to injure someone or threaten someone? Without such evidence, and as a purely practical question, the Supreme Court's decision seems perfectly justified. To the best of my limited knowledge, no incident has ever been recorded of anyone in Canada being threatened or attacked with a Howitzer 108mm either, but I sure as hell can't tow one around in public, much less a school. IF YOU DON'T LIKE OUR LAWS, LEAVE! Call me a racist, or a bigot, or an idiot if you prefer. MY KIDS SAFETY COMES BEFORE YOUR KIDS RELIGIOUS RIGHTS. End of story.

The SCC decision is such that this WEAPON is not to be catagorized as a weapon. They have also denounced the total ban of this WEAPON as illegal. Therefore, there cannot be a defence by any school, public or private, to the banning of this WEAPON. Uniforms would not be taken on the same case merits because the ban of "street clothes" does not pose a threat as a weapon. But, I dare any private school to forbid TURBANS!!!!! Can you say "good-bye school administrators"????????

Bingo! Exactly. To the best of my knowledge, no school kid has ever been stabbed with a crucifix.

And what, exactly, is the "mainstream thought in Canada"? Powerless against it? No. Just thoroughly disgusted. Go through channels? That is the equivalent of saying, "If you do not like what your boss is doing, please fill out Complaint Form #3 and give it to your boss. He will ensure that it is considered, and action is taken." IN MY OPINION, the CBC produces crap. Period. However, if they only broadcast what I want, they should still do it without government funding. Your tax dollars should not be used to support what 817 Albertans want, but the rest of Canada doesn't. If the "mainstream" (meaning majority?) likes what it sees and hears, then there should be no problem putting it to a referendum. But that will never happen because the CBC knows they would lose their funding permanently.

Concealed weapon. If a student walked into a school with the "kitchen knife" wrapped up and under his shirt, he would be criminally charged with carrying a concealed weapon. Unless, of course, he could point to his religious "right" to carry it. It is a big deal.

And if it was a religious handgun, then what? Would it still be allowed? Quit this bullshit right now! The SCC should stop being idiots, and overturn their own decision. These are CANADIAN schools, with CANADIAN kids (ethnic background is unimportant). OUR laws should reflect the needs for protection of the majority, not a miniscule percentage of the population that thinks they are head and shoulders more important. You come to this country, you follow the laws. OUR laws take precidence over OTHER laws. Not the other way around. You are welcome to your beliefs, and you will not be persecuted for them in any way. But you do not have the right to endanger my kids, no matter what your religion says. Period. I am so sick of this crap.

A red herring that is not relevant to the discussion because such programming would violate current broadcast laws which apply equally to public and private broadcasters. Fine, I'll move the "best" to a more appropriate time slot, and I'll put a documentary about lesbian lifestyles in it's place. Any other concerns?

Hydraboss Corp? HBC? I like that! Can I have a HBC Reward Points program, too? That'd be nifty. So, I have to meet all criteria? Okay. Naked lesbian jello-wrestling (sports), LNIC (sports), farm reports (let's not go there), Lesbian Film Festival (arts), live coverage of the Federal "common bawdy house" debate (political), the STD Report (science and health), and OF COURSE...I will broadcast overseas for our military boys!!! (international coverage) I don't like what I pay for on the CBC, and I have no say into it. So why should you have any say into what I broadcast? I just want your money. Do you see how the "other side" feels about MotherCorp? A lot of their content disgusts me, so I turn the channel. But I HAVE NO CHOICE but to pay for it. But if the tables were turned.....

Speaker, answer the question. Do you still support public broadcasting dollars or not. You may not like the content, but (theoretically) there is a segment of the population that wants this programming, and it cannot survive on private donations. Will you fight the gov't financial support JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT THE CONTENT?