Hydraboss

It is not right, but it is truly racist.

So what if the federal government is looking for an account rep of some type. They get two applicants, both 38 years old, both married with two boys, both received (curiously enough) the EXACT same marks from business school, both have the same haircut, both are perfectly heterosexual. One is bilingual and is an avid downhill skier. The other only speaks English, and is a good golfer. Neither of the last traits are a "requirement" of the job. Who should the government hire? Did I mention that the job is in Estevan, SK? If you answered the bilingual guy, you are either racist or stupid.

All in favor of bastardized French being jammed down the throats of ALL Canadians, please raise your wallets! You want French? You pay for it. I want free exotic dancers for everyone. Why doesn't that idea get my tax dollars? It would be good for all Canadians, and should be paid for by the feds. And ALL federal employees MUST be able to lapdance. Dancing predates the French language, so it has to be included in federal policies. If you can't lapdance, you will not be considered for the position. I see no one has answered my earlier question of why sign language isn't an official requirement for federal employees. Wonder why that is? So deaf people don't matter, huh? How racist. Kwebek can jam their bastardized French up their collective posteriors. The only official language in Canada is English. Don't like it? Get the hell out.

Bullshit. I have Indians working for me that live on reserve. While most I hire last a day or two, the handful that actually get up in the morning and report for work are making a killing and are damn nice guys. So how come the ones making $80k per year can do it, but the others living down the block can't? Laziness. Oh, and don't get me wrong...I get a ton of lazy-ass white guys too. And they quit just as fast. So there's your equality. Regardless of race, creed, color, etc, if you don't show up for work you lose your job. If you quit a job and sit and let the government pay you, you're a lazy-ass. No discimination required.

NAU? Good.

French is a waste of time and energy. If my kids want an upper hand by way of languages, their first choice should be Spanish as it is the second most prevalent language in the US. Second to that would be Chinese as this will be the second language of commerce worldwide. THE FRENCH LANGUAGE IS DEAD with the exception of France and Little-Almost-France (Kwebek). Spending my tax dollars for kids to learn a useless language just so the government can appease a miniscule portion of a country amounts to theft. It's importance ranks right up there with fountains in Shawinigate. If I was (I am!) forced to pay for a "second official language" in Canada, it might as well be Newfanese. At least then people in this province could communicate in a much easier manner. Just because you are pro-French (the bastardized Canadian version that it is), what gives you the right to jam that same dead language down all taxpayer's throats? So you have had a good experience being billingual, great. Why don't we make it mandatory that all school children learn how to use sign language? That is a skill. How about all federal employees must learn how to use sign language? What if all federal employees serving an area of Canada where there are deaf people lost their jobs if they couldn't sign? Would you still be okay with federal language policies?

100% agreed.

How about we take direction from that freak from the 80's, Prince. We could now refer to people as "The People Formerly Known As Visible Minorities" Yes? No?

Why aren't more people becoming electricians? Or plumbers? They make comparable money. If Canada is so short of nurses, how come everyone isn't signing up? Knowledge. I don't believe that many people are aware of the working conditions/perks that teachers have (I'm just guessing now). Before I became active in this area, I only knew that teachers made good money and got summers off. With the exception of teachers themselves, how many people know about the 180.5 FDE work required per year? I didn't. As I started to investigate the CBA's at length, I began to realize just what a sweetheart deal they get. Advice: If you respect teachers and think society gets their money's worth, stay away from the CBA's. They will only serve to change your mind.

Oy Vai! Hi Tsi Nukanykanun. How's that "Mohawk Warrior of the Mist" thing going for ya?

Sorry for not answering earlier. First of all, that's two questions. 1) I wouldn't become a teacher for good reason. My anti-union attitude would not be helpful in that work environment, and would only serve to be a burr in the saddle. I am not near liberal enough to be able to teach anything from the social courses, where I would enjoy teaching. There is also no way I could live with myself if I worked that little and sucked up that much in tax dollars from families. Although as the years go by, the working part time thing is looking good. 2) Let's just say I enjoy my current lifestyle, and would not be willing to give that up.

Although this is a thread drift... My wife and pretty much every single nursing friend of hers believe that the union does nothing for them except cost them an armload in union dues. In negotiations, the union reps drop any and all concerns that the nurses have, and chase the money. In day to day life on the floor, the union is impotent in getting action on grievences if they even bother to file them. And what pisses them off the most......the useless nurses that nearly kill patients are never disciplined and hide behind the union when called to answer for their actions. In society today, there is absolutely no need for a nursing union. The simple fact is, they cannot practice as nurses unless they are part of the union. No dues - no RN registration. Me...I just hate unions.

Nurses get overtime pay if they work more than full time hours. The 12 hour shifts are at straight time as per the UNA CBA. They do receive double time on stat holidays, but they must work them. Wrong. The minimum required is a four year degree. That is why their CBA's do not have numbers for a five year education. Come on, this is a great source of personal enjoyment for me. My wife is an anti-union union nurse, and I am an anti-union oilfield worker. You should hear some of the conversations we have!!! I tell her to quit being such an overpaid, underworked whiner. By the way, I don't suggest this with a wife that is of Irish and Scottish heritage (red hair and all).

Okay, so the argument seems to be revolving around hours of work. Teachers want pay equity with nurses? Hmmm...time to do a little math experiment. Teacher (10 years experience, 4 years education) makes $80093/year and works 866.4 hours/year. Let's say that that teacher actually works 2016 hours/year. That would give him an hourly rate of $39.73/hour. Same nurse (10 years experience, 4 years education) makes $34.25/hour (dayshift, non-weekend). Seems pretty equitable to me. Except, maybe, for the fact that nurses work 12 hour shifts, some nights, some weekends, some stat holidays, etc. AND......if we extrapolate the nurses earnings at $34.25/hour X 2016 hours/year, we end up with gross earnings of $69048. Remember, the teacher makes $80093. Anyone here want to argue that teachers work the equivalent of 11.17 hours/day? That's what the math says: 2016/year divided by 180.5 required days of work = 11.17 hours/day. THAT is not pay equity with nurses. And incidentally, I feel that nurses are overpaid, and my wife is one.

Okay, but did Timmy create anything, or just reproduce it. Maybe the definition has to be defined. Create vs reproduce. If you create it you get royalties, if you reproduce it you pay royalties. Hmmm... Personally, I would like to see the copyright laws repealed for everything. If I come up with a new product that no one can live without, I should hire armed guards to protect it (like the Caramilk Secret) and charge an astronomical amount for the product before some Chinese company reproduces it for 1/7 the cost. If they do, I should probably come up with a new idea.

I can refer only to Alberta teachers' CBA's. In this province, a new grad teacher (0 years) starts at the 1 year experience level. They did away with the 0 level in the last bargaining round. As for Manitoba, I would have to see the definition of classes 1 through 7 to make any correlation to earnings. The FDE (full day equivalent) will probably not be listed in the online CBA, but simply call a school and ask them for the teachers schedule for the school year. It lists the required days that teachers must work. The CBA should also list the substitute rates, the additional administration rates (principle, vice principle, etc) that are applicable to the different school districts. Or maybe that is just Alberta.

If you have read the entire thread, then you have seen my position on this matter. I sit and BS with a pile of teachers quite often (the outlaws), and they don't spend time prepping once they have been in the job for a while. Again, new teachers spend their time prepping for classes. That's it. In almost all cases that I have been involved in (and that's quite a lot), the students do the marking. The exception is writing assignments, and that is what "prep" periods are for...marking. As has just been said.....if out of school time is such a big deal, work it into the CBA and do the work at school instead of leaving tire tracks at 3:15pm every day. If teachers actually worked that amount of time, I would have no problem paying them for it. Fair is fair. BUT TEACHERS DON'T EARN THEIR EARNINGS AND I GET TO PAY FOR IT!!!

Remiel, Supply a verifiable number as to how many hours the average teacher spends outside the classroom. And, no, numbers from the ATA site are not admissable in court. That would be about as exact as asking me if I work hard. The numbers I have provided are provable and are what the collective bargaining agreement is based on. If teachers want credit (and pay) for those "mystery" hours and hours they spend outside the classroom, then they should at the very least account for a rounded-off number in the CBA.

Remiel, if you want to blow it to the ridiculous...sure. My life for my daughter's. In a heartbeat. No question. Any other insight you would like to share? Questions? Comments?

Remiel, a classroom typically is a breeding ground for low level pathogens...colds, flu, etc. Nurses face one of the highest rates of workplace violence (for non-law enforcement employment). Upset parents, spouses, managers, etc. Just walk into any hospital in the country and look at all the "Respect in the Workplace" and "Violence Will Not Be Tolerated" signs all over the hallways and waiting rooms. I will have to find those stats on my work computer. Sorry. Police are without a doubt at a higher risk of exposure to higher level pathogens than teachers are. Aids, Hep C, liberalism, etc. Just consider who they deal with on a daily basis. Nurses may face the same or greater risk depending on where they work. I wouldn't reasonably expect a maternity RN to be faced with a ton of HIV cases, but it could happen.

In general I have no problem with how much someone, or some group, makes. Yes, Alberta is expensive. No big surprise. What I have a problem with is when people paid by the taxes of others (in this case teachers) who work PART TIME go around whining that they don't make enough. Admit to how much you make (preferably per hour) and THEN let the tax paying public decide if you need a raise. I cannot comment on how much working politicians should make (cause I've never heard of one ;})

Catchme, I wouldn't pay the vast majority of politicians $150 per year, let alone $150K. Teachers do next to nothing outside the school...classroom yes...staff room no. Curriculums change, but not that much. I have personally laid eyes on Alberta Education cirriculum change notices, and they're not that involved. Science didn't change that much over the summer. I will admit that my figures pale in comparison to your: Kinda hard to argue with hard facts like that. Spurious....did you just learn that word, cause you sure seem to like it. Have anything to do with making a horse go faster?

Actually, try watching a Hollywood release some time. Remember the whole FBI warning thing at the beginning? Copyright is all over these things from start to finish. Blueblood, as for your Canola, I am interested in what you have to say about a welding shop. They buy raw steel (in one form or another) and then manipulate it into something else....a finished product. Are you saying that the steel foundry has a right to some of the profits of the welding shop that made....metal garden furniture? Then do you not owe some foundry some money because you took their steel and made a new corral? What about the mining company that found the damn metal ore in the first place? Are you sending them a cheque? Neither of these examples created "more" or "copied" the metal. They manipulated it, as that is their business. Does the company buying your canola use it to make "more" canola? No. They're just manipulating it into a different product. Same as your metal corral.

Just a mathematical note: If a registered nurse (10years experience, 4 year degree) worked 866.4 hours @ $34.00 that would equal $29,457.60 per year. If a teacher (10 years experience, 4 year degree) worked 866.4 hours she would receive $80,093.00 per year. (If nurses work 12 hour shifts, it is at straight time, not overtime. There is, however, anywhere from $1.00/hr to $2.85/hour shift differential for nights and weekend shifts. Teachers are paid on salary, but they do have to deduct for substitute teachers if they miss more than their alloted sick days.) I agree with you on the "more important" job though. If a nurse has a bad day, someone dies. If a cop has a bad day, someone dies. If a teacher has a bad day, some kids don't learn subtraction.

Yes, you know me too well. I do tend to get all bleary-eyed over trees.