betsy

FACT: The universe is expressed by time, space, matter and energy FACT: Nothing holds up Earth. It is affected by gravity. FACT: The earth is round. FACT: There is an incalculable number of stars. FACT: Mountains and trenches in the deep blue sea. FACT: Invisible atoms, the building blocks FACT: A finished creation. FACT: The universe is deteriorating FACT: The Universe Must Have Had a Beginning FACT:: Existence of ocean currents FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE FACT: Hydrological Cycle or Water Cycle FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE: Science uses the word, "STRETCHING/STRETCHES/STRETCHED!” FACT: Expression - "CURVATURE OF SPACE," still related to STRETCHING UNIVERSE FACT: The human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements which are all found in the earth FACT: BLOOD – THE RIVER OF LIFE FACT: RODINIA and PANTHALASSA, One land and one ocean! All those facts describes God's creation(s) - all science-proven facts! Information that only the Creator can know.

Well, if you can't afford a cadillac, you can't afford a cadillac. Even if people who can afford it taunt you for being poor, you've got to learn to deal with "judgements" like that in life. Unless of course you'd rather be in debt to your eyeballs just so you can buy that cadillac. But that doesn't mean you're rich just because you have a cadillac. Mind you, it doesn't mean that everyone who has a cadillac is rich either. For all you know they're sitting in the same boat as you are....debts to their eyeballs, just so they can say they drive a cadillac. It is written, only God can judge (condemnation). Therefore, if we condemn you, we actually just might end up being in trouble ourselves before the eyes of God....for we should know better.

Ahhh....that depends. If a rag-tag science keeps changing its version in a span of only a little bit more than a century just so to say evolution is true - and yet up to now hasn't produced a single valid irrefutable evidence - I'll agree with you on that. ESPECIALLY when they've got a long history of fraud, falsification of data, hoaxes, making unsubstantiated claims....and who knows what other trickery up their sleeves! Right there it already shows lies and deliberate deceptions. That definitely doesn't bode well. It doesn't mean they're true, or what more it doesn't seem that they're even on the right track! Furthermore, science does not conduct a thorough quest for knowledge. It sets parameters as to how far they can go, eliminating other possibilities that do not belong within its set parameters! Why do you set boundaries if you really wanna know? If the answer is not found in the natural....then you've got to be open at least, to explore the supernatural! If it ain't complete, it can't be conclusive! BUT - and this is a very big BUT - if a book such as the Bible got several Biblical declarations that's been proven right-on by our modern-day science - irrefutable, mind you - you guys should open your minds and pay attention. I'm not asking you to believe it all, nor do I expect that from you. At least, read , study and understand it! Why bury your heads in the sand? Don't tell me we're part ostrich too? Ground hog?

In that case, you're the one with issues! Why would it matter what mere humans say about you? Why would you let that bother you? If they judge you, so what? Haven't you heard of, "sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me?" In this world we live in, you're "judged" all the time. From what type of dwelling you live in, to the kinds of furnitures you use, to the brand of soap you lather yourself with, to the extent of caring you show towards the environment - if you use a plastic bag to do your groceries, or extent of your recycling or energy-saving! I hope you've learn to just roll your eyes to those! Well, if you can't afford a cadillac, you can't afford a cadillac. Even if people who can afford it taunt you for being poor, you've got to learn to deal with "judgements" like that in life. Unless of course you'd rather be in debt to your eyeballs just so you can buy that cadillac. But that doesn't mean you're rich just because you have a cadillac. Mind you, it doesn't mean that everyone who has a cadillac is rich either. For all you know they're sitting in the same boat as you are....debts to their eyeballs, just so they can say they drive a cadillac.

Well WIP, you're focusing on humans. You know what Christ said about the Pharisees and all the hypocrites, and all those who cannot detach themselves from worldly temptations. Lust for worldly treasures and pleasures. The parables touched on these. Numerous times. What, are we going to use sinning men as a cheap excuse to forsake God? That's pretty lame. It's illogical in fact when those same gripes you have were actually addressed by Christ! It's only God who'll be judging us in the end.

The FACTS listed are undeniably dead-on! Information that can only be known by the Creator. And if you assume that the facts came from the Creator, why would you assume He's telling lies? The facts that's listed here did not get discovered by science all at once and at the same time! For some reasons known only to Him, understanding comes at His own pace - we know what He wants us to know, when he wants us to know! Some verses in the Bible are usually taken out of context. Certain parts are quote-mined to suit one's argument/rebutt conveniently. Some passages are metaphors or figures of speech....we need to find out which ones. That's why an open-minded study of the Bible is important -especially for those who truly seek knowledge. Just because we do not understand some things does not mean they're not true. Isaiah 55:8-9 (NIV) 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Of course, that's where faith comes in. Liars and manipulators of mankind are not found exclusively from writers of religious manuscripts! They can also come from some science....or politics....or the school boards....or the UN....or the media. They can even come from forums like this (especially when their claims are unsubstantiated!) Whether the Bible's been "tampered' with or not, is not the point! Whoever gave the Biblical declarations listed in this topic - the list of FACTS that have this kind of font - had gotten the facts dead-on! Proven by science! That's the point. Biblical declarations that are proven true by science cannot be called a lie! How can something that's true be a lie? In fact, dismissing it outright and tossing it aside is illogical! At the very least, the Bible should be read seriously and studied with an open-mind by those who truly seek knowledge! Those tied down by an equally strong faith - such as the atheistic faith of non-existence of gods - are the ones most likely to dismiss and refuse to engage the Bible with an open-minded. It's understandable. To do so would mean to question - if not to negate - the validity of their own faith.

I noticed Cybercoma tried to resurrect the rebutt about the hundreds other deities recorded in history! Like as if that has any bearing on the premise of this topic! Even if there were thousands of deities recorded in history it wouldn't be worth squat unless you give me the proof that I asked for: Give me one other religious faith that has an ancient book much similar to the Bible that has science-proven facts pertaining to origin! As far as I know, only the Bible has these facts dead on!

Scoffers ask a lot of whys which I dismiss as being so petty! And irrelevant! Like one poster ask about why God does not know the mustard seed is not the smallest, or rabbits' eating ways. These examples he gave were all obvious and observable to all people during those days! Didn't they see rabbits aren't like cows? The premise - or would you say "pattern" - of the topic is completely lost to some posters! The facts listed are Biblical declarations that were proven true by science thousands of years after they were declared in the Bible!

I just happened to watch the movie Avatar last night. It's just like some of the Playstation Adventure games - same old concept and ideas taken out from different religion (like the "Tree of Life," worship of nature, native Aboriginal ways, etc.,) and rehashed into mish-mash with the same old story of greed (land claiming for valuable resources) and faith. It has the same feel as Jurassic Park for thrills of being chased by monsters - inlcuding a pack of relentless beasts which seemed to have been inspired by those prehistoric beasts (forgot the name) that ate the little girl in the openning scene of Jurassic Park 2. The movie's real showcase is all about the graphics/visual effects, imv (it's like a playground for graphic artists)....which I found boring after a while. Nothing really there. Kids probably enjoyed it though.

One of the monkeys caught in the net wiggling to be free but can't be let desperate to set his blunder straight that shows he's just full of nothing, his words has no weight! Anchors indeed! Moral: See when you blab with nothing to back you up?

Sounds like the jungle or the zoo in here, what with the excited monkeys chattering and chittering. They're throwing bananas.....and poo! Trying to change the channel! All the silly questions! Going over the petty details.....but refusing to see the obvious! Three of them symbolically caricatures of the three monkeys covering ears, eyes and mouth (hear, see and say no evil), except these three refuse to hear, see.....and cannot refute the obvious! The Biblical declarations listed as facts are right on! Proven by science! That's a very big fact!

Then you don't follow the discussion? Or are you being....unfair? http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18914&st=225 ------------------------------- Tell that to your buddy. Well apparently the Book that said all about those scientific facts listed on this topic said he did. Do you have any proof that it didn't happen? We read what we choose to read. We see what we choose to see. Selective reading. Selective seeing. So far the Book that I'm quoting obviously eliminated some of your laws of nature. It made declarations that were proven scientifically true! But we're talking about the DEEP blue ocean! So? Have you heard of scholars who meticulously do the translations? They're the HUMAN equivalent of paleontologists or gelologists, etc.., except their expertise is in this field.

Science is awesome! TRUE science, that is. The real sincere quest for real knowledge/truth! After all where do all that knowledge comes from? It is reliable. I agree with you on that. But not pseudo-science. Not the kind of so-called quest for "knowledge" that's been compromised by atheistic bias, by "cover-ups" for the sake of hidden agendas, giving unsubstantiated claims and counter-factual claims, deliberate falsifications of datas, hoaxes and frauds...not that kind of so-called science that's churning out myths.

Did I say all preachers or priests are doing all these for God? I'm not going to go about naming anybody who do so but some do get into the BUSINESS of preaching. For money. Or for other more sinister purposes that the "authority" of the position can use. Just like a pedophile would work as a teacher, or a coach, or a priest or a pervert....to get access to children, gullible women, young lads.... Why do I keep saying you've got to read, study and understand the Bible for yourself. If you do, you'd know that Christ repeatedly warned us about those who will use His name. You'd understand why He mostly lambasted the Pharisees - the priests/clergy of that time - in practically every Book there is in the New Testament for their hypocrisy? You've got to know when you're being victimized or taken for a ride! The onus is on you to be careful! You'd have to ask the parents that! Something's terribly wrong with one's priorities in life if you'd maximize your credits cards to keep up with the Jones' - to show your neighbors that certainly being stingy to yourelf is not in your vocabulary! What's the difference? It's all for show!

http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/developing.html Let me just point out the appropriate description in the Bible precisely matching what was discovered in 1855. Mountains. Plural form. And who was it who gave the first evidence of the underwater mountains? The same guy who was inspired by the Bible and discovered the “paths in the seas.” Matthew Maury! Jonah 2:5-6 5 The engulfing waters threatened me, the deep surrounded me; seaweed was wrapped around my head. 6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. And to think that before the 19th century, people believed the ocean floor was flat! And featureless!

Regarding the listed fact about Mountains and trenches in the deep blue sea http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18914&st=0 Jonah 2:3-6 (New International version) 3 You hurled me into the depths, into the very heart of the seas, and the currents swirled about me; all your waves and breakers swept over me. 4 I said, ‘I have been banished from your sight; yet I will look again toward your holy temple.’ 5 The engulfing waters threatened me, the deep surrounded me; seaweed was wrapped around my head. 6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. Just a little history about the ocean floor lest some of you ends up buying the fanciful yarn of one of the posters here claiming that ancient people must've known about the mountains in the ocean because of their boat "anchors." This is to enlighten him too because apparently he's dead serious about it! http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/developing.html Anchors! Bwa-ha-ha

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I just only read this part, and boy.... I said I didn't want to be part of a name-calling, insult-hurling brawl! And you don't care that I said that? Therefore you're really keen to take this dsicussion down to the gutter! Like these name-callings! You are deceitful in your attempt at discussion. Then it is indeed pointless to even try. Then you don't have to respond at my posts, for I have no further intentions of responding to you. You don't want me to give articles and sources that supports my arguments simply because you cannot offer anything substantial to back your claims! You think we're spitting wind in the bar here? You want me to be like you? Good day, sir. Farewell.

Hah! Several dead-on Biblical facts and you dismiss them....yet you want to sell me macro-evolution - riddled with hoaxes/frauds/unsubstantiated and counter-factual claims - and with not a single valid evidence to boot! Nice try! The universe is not expressed in Time, Space, Matter and Energy? The universe is not deteriorating? No mountains and deep trenches in the deep blue ocean? The universe is not expanding...er excuse me....I mean...streeeeeetching? There's no curvature of space? Our body is not made with things that's found in the ground? Blood is not the "river of life?" There was no one single super continent called Rodinia, and one single ocean called Panthalassa in the beginning? The earth is not round? Hydrocycle is not true? Sanitary practices, disease prevention and public health instructions given here are not true? You don't agree with science?

You haven't been answering my questions, why should it only be a one-way-street? So yeah, here's a banana. Now, be happy.

But I'm not debating the honesty of all Creationists in this topic. I am presenting the Biblical declarations that have been proven true by science. The glaring Biblical scientific facts - especially the ones pertaining to origin - that only the Creator/Designer would know.

Just answer this. Are you saying all the big bold facts I've listed here on this topic are not scientifically true? If you say they're not, then support your claim!

What's several version got to do with the facts listed here? Just because there are several versions proves it's therefore fallacy? What? The dictionary has a lot of versions! Therefore it's all fallacy? If you want to prove the Bible's fallacy, then you tackle the Biblical declarations that's been proven true by science. Because those are the arguments being presented here. Focus. Never mind the number of versions - just the facts, sir. Just deal with the facts. Are you saying the fonts cloud the thinking mind? I could understand children getting all excited by bright colors....but we're all adults here, are we not? If I post this several times.... Sample: Fact: The world is shaped like a triangle! Are you saying everyone who reads will eventually believe it? Just because it's been posted several times? What I know is that.....someone who avidly follows and keeps reading popular science rags or anything written by Dawkins, will not only believe everything Dawkins say, he'll also talk the way Dawkins does! He'll be parroting all the derogatory statements he has about religion - specially Christianity! Furthermore, he'll be intoning and chanting scientific claims - most, if not all of them, unsubstantiated! Not even any cut-and-paste! And he''ll pompously expect you to take his word for it! Tell you what, why don't you post your rebuttals against the facts listed here the same way, font-wise. You can rebutt the sample given above like this: Fact: The earth is not Bermuda! No way! It is round! (Then have something to back up that claim) Don't rebutt so boldly....only to give a disappointing pfffffft. Never mind Galileo's past. Focus please. Just answer this: Are you saying all the facts I've listed are not scientifically true?

First, I'm just curious....why do you refer to God as "G-d?" I don't think men of faith are denying the power of the human mind to reason, after all that is God-given too. It's one of those qualities that separates man from the other creations of God (such as the land animals, the sea creatures, birds and plants!) Man - which is made in the "image" of God - is the only creation that can reason. I'm sure a monkey does not contemplate how the universe began, or who its ancestors were, what more concern itself whether grabbing a banana from another is a sin, or what happens next after death! If there's anyone who tries to deny the power of reason, I think it's the evolutionist scientists. Otherwise, why would Dawkins declare "Philosophy is dead?" Atheist men of reason who see both sides of evidences/arguments from the Creationists and Evolutionists scientists and who follow the logic of origin ends up becoming deist or Christians! And no, we do not know anything about the chain of evolution! What we do know is that evolutionist scientists are trying everything to come up with new theories, including fraud/hoaxes/lies, to fill in the gaps in order to fit their idea of origin! As I've said before, if science and reputed scientists like Dawkins, can go to far lengths as to commit fraud/hoaxes/misleading and unsubstantiated claims, if they can lie about some things, why can't they not lie about everything? How do you sift lies from facts? Jbg, the big problem with macro-evolution is that, not only does it have no valid evidence at all that it exists, but that it is supposed to prove to you that there is no God! That your Bible is nothing more than a mythological book. I'm not sure if you've followed the whole discussion on this thread. Refer to this: FACT: SCIENCE REMAINS BAFFLED http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18914&st=30 And you must be familiar with this passage: And yes, "knowledge is constantly subject to revision based upon new facts." Knowledge that God wants us to know. For indeed everything has been planned by our God.