Drea

Again. It's our largely secular society that keeps religion under check, not the religions within our society. I am not sympathizing or agreeing with Islam. They don't have a secular society. It wasn't religion that "brought in" equal rights for women/gays/children. Religion in the west is "controlled" because there are people out there who don't believe in it. We have the "option" NOT to believe. In many muslim countries they don't have an "opt out" option. A while back I was chatting with my friend in Iran and she said "We have to face Mecca and pray five times a day -- but sometimes I don't pray, sometimes I just think". Gotta love her... if she is representative of the youth of her country, she is the start of the "secular" society in Iran. Currently, the youth of Iran (at least from my friends point of view -- being and 18 yo Iranian woman) WANT to be "westernized". They are questioning their religious leaders and trying to carve out a new way of life -- a modern way of life. BUT, and that is a great big BUT. If the west goes into Iran to "free" them or "bring democracy" to them the youth will turn on us. And the Imams can say "see we told you young people that the west was evil -- look they've invaded our country!".

I never got to say goodbye to my mom so I make every effort to talk, really talk to my dad when we get together. My parents were very loving and open, and spankings were doled out sparingly. Mom would say "this is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you" - I didn't think so then, but I now know what she meant. It's difficult (but necessary) to dish out punishment to the little person you love with your whole soul. I agree that consistency and fairness are the keys. The name of the course should be "How to say no to your child and stick to it" So many parents are inconsistent in their discipline and the child is too confused to know whether no means "no" or if it means "keep whining and you'll get what you want". I've always stood behind my "no". LOL The other day I caved though! He wanted to go to his friends house after dinner and was whining his head off (he'd been there all day). I got exasperated and said "Oh, go already". Hubby said "why don't you call him first?" He called and it turns out the friends parents didn't want him over anyway. We are trying to teach him how to not wear out his welcome LOL.

There should be courses for parents to be, on the difference between a spanking and a beating. A spanking is acceptable for children under 12 (I remember clearly my last one at age 11). My parents would use a "switch" -- us kids would have to go out and "cut our own willow" -- this did 2 things -- it made us REALLY THINK about what we did, and it gave our parents time to calm down before the spanking. I survived. I have no lasting scars, emotionally or physically. I've spanked my son twice in his life (he's 12 now). I used a belt. I'd never spank with my hand, it's simply too easy to "wallop the kid into next week". Those parents who "spank" every 5 minutes (we've all seen a parent spank a toddler's butt or slap their hands for every little infraction) take the "power" out of the spanking because the kid simply gets used to it -- then it's constant beating, not corrective spanking. Those parents who "beg and plead" with their child to behave are simply undermining their power and I cringe when I think of how they will be treated when their non-spanked kid becomes a teen. I'm all for the soft heart -- strong hands approach. After all, if a kid has no respect for his parents, he's not going to have any respect for authority figures later on.

We should publish cartoons that mock the holocaust too. After all -- no one has the right to be pissed about it -- it's only a cartoon for pete's sake! All newspapers should carry cartoons of priests luring young boys into sex... and Jews, skinny jews with money belts. What you'd you think of that? No, I don't think the muslim reaction is "ok". But nor is it "ok" to publish the cartoons. Put the shoe on the other foot for 5 minutes folks. Ezra Levant is the north's version of Tucker Carlson -- a windbag with no brain.

Sure, you call it "firmament" LOL Like, gee the firmament sure is a beautiful blue today!

Economic Left/Right: -1.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.38 A little more to the right than the Dalai Lama.

Then why weren't they standing and shouting from the rooftops that they did not agree with Roberston when he called for the assassination of Chavez? They didn't so (in your line of reasoning) they MUST agree with his fundie views. Does this mean you are suspicious of every muslim person? That each one may be carrying a bomb or thinking of how to destroy us? I beg to differ, there are many moderate muslims, even in Iran.

I asked the question -- didn't say I believed it. I've been reading a book about Freemasonry which mentions an ancient sect of Christianity called the "Nazarines" (sp) It's a natural conclusion to suspect that the word Nazi comes from the word Nazarine (Jesus of Nazareth started this "sect" btw -- "Christianity" as we know it didn't begin until well after Jesus' death. Hitler could certainly have been using it for his own twisted purposes -- he was a pretty freakin twisted guy! So Dear Leafless -- I POSED A QUESTION -- I did not state a belief.

My point exactly, if they are perfectly happy in their own county then there'd be no reason to emmigrate. Although there is no "acres and acres" of tenements where I live, there is low-cost townhouse developments. Inevitably these low-cost townhouse complexes attract criminals. Criminals (generally) are not living in the high end subdivision on snob hill. In the smalll city that I live in tenants from all stripes live eveywhere -- they even rent suites from homeowners on snob hill. I say keep them dispursed throughout the city instead of grouping them all together. Recently, on a street not too far from my house, they've gotten rid of some run-down motels -- it's nice to see that these tenants will have to find accommodation seperately and won't be able to run their drug/crime operations quite so easily. "Need some drugs? Just go down to that there motel...." can't say that anymore! Hurray! Instead of public housing, some degree of rent control is in order. Yes, I am a landlord, and yes, I agree with rent controls. We've had the same tenant now going on 7 years and her rent has increased by a whopping $25 per month. We'd rather keep her (a very good tenant -- low income single mother) than try our luck with someone new who may or maynot be a good tenant).

Exactly, they have not so it is indeed fair to compare the behaviors. People with poor education, that have no tradition of openness, and separation of church and state cannot be expected to act as we do. And that is exactly why we cannot lump together the fundie Muslims in the Middle East to Muslims in the west who ARE educated and open. Do we lump together the Christian sects who worships rattlesnakes or practive voodoo with the Catholic schoolgirl? After all they're both believe in Christ don't they? There are over 2300 sect of the Christian religion. There are probably as many sects of the Muslim religion some bad, some good, some moderate; just like Christians.

I don't think it's fair or logical to compare the poor behaviour of Christianity in the distant past with the poor behaviour of Islam today. All our ancestors and all our institutions behaved poorly in ancient times - by modern perceptions. We have progressed. They, unfortunately, have not. Well, shouldn't that mean that we give them time and help them to develop and progress rather than ban their ideas? No pun intended, but it gets harder and harder on this board to play Devil's Advocate because everyone seems to have so much trouble getting that you can argue a position even if it isn't the one you personally believe. FTA Of course it's "fair and logical" to compare the bad (not poor) behaviour of Christianity in the past with the bad behaviour of Islam today. Remember the Salem witch trials conducted by Christians? Being burned alive is certainly worse than being blown up IMO. At least when yer blown to bits it's over very quickly! During the time when so-called "enlightened" Christians were burning their own people to death, Persia (now Iran) had a thriving, prosperous culture. Religions cannot be banned (as much as my seclular self would like to see it happen).

Irshad rocks! But she's not ready to be PM. I don't think the Canadian public is quite reacy for a muslim woman leader (no matter how moderate her veiws). Maybe in 15 years or so...

Wasn't Hiltler was a Christain Fundamentalist? Didn't he follow the doctrine of "Nazzarine" an ancient Christain sect? (Hence the word NAZI) He bastardized it however by tying it to the superiority of the Aryan race and his own personal power adgenda (and of course, he was as crazy as a loon in December!)

Has not (yet)? Your apparent (and perfectly permitted) dislike for Evangelical Christians should not blind you to the differences between life in Western society and life in an Islamic society. Thankfully we live in a largely secular society where religious extremism is frowed upon (at the very least). In the Middle East there is (sadly) no secular society for checks and balances of religion. If the Jerry Falwell's of the west had their way -- they certainly would be much more harsh with "non-believers" IMO. Thankfully, (again) fundies are a very small portion of our society. Imagine if all we ever were allowed to read was the bible? If we used it exclusively for history and geography, heck even literacy... would we be the same as the Islamic fundies then? Probably. It's society at large that keeps religion in check, not religion itself.

Perhaps, but the "hate" of most social conservatives is pretty much limited to not wanting same sex marriage, or perhaps, not wanting homosexuals to be teachers and that sort of thing. Ain't too many social conservatives who want to torture them to death while shouting out how great God is. 'Cept Jerry Fallwell.... Did you watch Barbara Walters' special on "heaven"? Two religions have basically the same philosophy -- the extremist Islamist and the Evangelical Christian. They are the ONLY two religions that say "If you don't believe and follow EXACTLY what the bible/koran says then you are most certainly going to hell." Although the Evangelical Christian has not (yet) strapped a bomb to his body... he is just as adamant that his belief is the "truth" as the misguided young muslim who straps on a bomb... Ever notice it's NOT the extreme muslim CLERIC strapping on the bomb? It's usually some poor young kid led to believe he's doing the right thing... He's been fed religious pap his whole life and knows nothing different -- he personally cannot be blamed, his religious leaders are to blame. If you have been taught your whole life that 1+1=3 you are going to believe it, even if it's wrong. All religions are a farce - they are simply based on unknowable information (until we invent a time machine). If there is a "God" (and I have serious doubts about that) -- it really oughta get down here and set everyone straight, no? If I terraformed a planet, I'd stop in and check on it every once in a while to make sure my "creations" were doing ok.

People emmigrate from coutries under stife. People don't emmigrate if they are perfectly happy in their own country. In the early and middle parts of the 20th century we saw many immigrants from Europe because Europe was experiencing "stife" and hardship. Now the muslim countries are experiencing stife and hardship so the people's natural tendency is to want to leave. Europeans are just as fat and happy as Canadians so they have no reason to leave. I don't believe in public housing for anyone. No wonder there's "ghettos" -- when you put all the poor people in acres of run-down tenements you can surely expect they will develop a "ghetto" culture. (read: crime/drug havens)

Why do you think that ? Of course, plenty of white people are poor. Post was entirely facetious... I should of put in a little winking icon... Poor little white boy whining that he can't live in an immigrant "community" or go to an immigrant "house of worship" or share in the immigrants' culture.

What are "rich" (all white people are rich) people doing living in a tenement anyway? -- they should move to a gated "white" community where they can be "safe" from bad coloured people. I suppose they ARE different from the muslims in say, Iran. They're HERE aren't they? Some of the women have (gasp!) even gotten rid of their burkas! OMG! INCLUDING their OWN communities -- their own TEMPLES of worship! Want to ban Mosques? Then you'll have to ban churches as well. For heaven's sake, let's not let all the "whities" live in "communities". They should be forced to disperse throughout the city.. not live in friggin gated communities. There they are, refusing to integrate. Exclusive rights to one's culture? You can wear a sari if you really want to.

Yah! Women really suck eh. We should harvest their eggs and kill them if they want to do something other than raise children. After all they are simply baby making machines and should never think they could be anything else. Damn women! Out there making money, haveing power and prestige! It's sickening I tell you. Even the ones born to (gasp!) feminists? Or should they be "taken away" and raised by stay-at-home Moms, and "Father, who (of course!) knows best"? I say take them away -- They wanted a career, not children and should not be allowed to raise them -- lousy, power hungry feminists that they are. Ruined the world I tell you. As if! Cheers Leafless -- must be tough going through life hating women in power. Drea -- a career woman with a 12 year old, A honours, Air Cadet, paper delivering son.

Imagine no trade/economic barriers... now imagine you own a manufacturing company looking for a country to locate in... In North America your company will have to pay $15/hr per worker plus benefits. In India your company will have to pay $15/day per worker, no benefits. Which country are you going to locate your manufacturing company? Also, Yankabroad, you've spoken of being able to freely travel from country to country and work/live/play anywhere on earth with no restrictions. Imagine 15 million young Chinese people doing the same thing as you. Are you going to get hired? You're competing with 15 million people with a higher education standard than you! Sure opening the world will be a benefit to those who own businesses, but for the average American/Canadian our living standards will decrease. Not to the extent that we'll be living in huts/igloos, but be prepared to keep that new car for 10 years instead of 2. Personally I support globalization even if it's a detriment to me personally. It's the only way to stop all the friggin' wars. "Ok, all you people of the world have equal access to everything" There would be no reason to fight wars anymore.

What about the "nubilet"? How does she feel about being touched all over by a wrinkly, filthy old 80 year old man? Bet he's not her first choice of sexmate, eh. Woman and girlds are not commodoties to be "given" to some old b**tard. This type of thinking doesn't belong in the 21st century in any country.

Rented the movie "The Island" the other weekend. It's about cloning. These clones are all islolated in a community and told that they win a "lottery" when in fact they were being sent to their clone-deaths. 2 clones escape (a man and a woman, in love, of course) and they go looking for the man's "original" in the hopes that he'll want to save them all. When they finally find him he says "you have no soul!". The clone lives, breathes, thinks, and acts exactly like any other human being. If God didn't give him his soul in eutero then how did he get it? He obviously has one as he has conscious and unconscious thought. I think this is the problem people will have with cloning (not to mention the fact that to harvest organs you'd have to kill an actual human being) -- those who don't believe in God, will believe the clone does indeed have a right to live -- where those who believe in God will believe the clone is evil or soulless and therefor non-human and not worthy of any right to live. I don't think we should be cloning people for organ harvest. Or pets, because Fluffy died and Mrs. Walker just can't live without Fluffy. I'm with geoffrey, I'd rather just be mortal and enjoy the time I've got.

Why don't you go to another site? There's Freedominion -- I'm sure you'd feel "right" at home. Have a lovely day.

Nope I was banned for being too right wing. They were all bitching about not having work, having to sqeegie windows for money. So I posted a long list of jobs in BC that didn't require any skills and they booted me. Oh well. Anyhoo It relates to the conservatives in Canada because Harper would emulate the Bush Administration on foreign affairs/trade and their concept of "morality". As I've stated many times, Harper is running a neutered govt. So we are "safe" for the time being Oh Grow Up about the "rant". Sheesh. Cons have been ranting that they live in a liberal dictatorship for how many years now? So now that we have a con govt -- I can rant all the hell I want. Tit for tat baby.

It's happening now. I've just started reading an interesting book "The World is Flat" by Thomas L. Friedman. It describes just how and why this is all going on and the impact it's having on our western economies. It won't be all 'roses' - as the standard of living rises for those in third world countries, it will lower for those in first world countries - a levelling of the playing field, so to speak.