cougar

OK, I agree this is the case with promissory notes, bonds, cash of different currencies, but not gold. Gold is supposedly a commodity by itself that has a value. But I do not understand that value. Let's say I have a dog of 15kg and someone offers me 15kg of gold for it. Would I trade my dog for 15kg of metal? No. Nobody would unless they expect to turn around and sell the 15kg of gold to another person for $1,000,000 (about the market price today). The 15kg of metal does not bark, run, smile, wag a tail, follow you as a friend all over the place in all seasons. It is , sorry to repeat myself, useless. So the same point remains; if everyone decides to devalue gold and state its value is only equal to what it is worth for the hi-tech industry, it value would indeed drop down to that of copper, silver or whatever the market dictates, but no way it will be $2,000/oz

Should I shoot them an e-mail to tell them what they have in there is worthless? Again, their presumption is that someone will BUY it. In other words, someone will promise to supply them with labor, food, energy, whatever they need in exchange for the gold. But if all of those commodities are in greater demand who will be stupid to trade them for gold???? I am not going to be the one. Surprised there are no other forum members willing to join this discussion.

No, my last line of defense is my freezer. Hopefully there is enough salmon, mushrooms and berries in it. If electricity is no longer available, my last line of defense will be my fishing gear. Gold.......I can leave where it is.

Oh, I enjoy life as much as my means allow me to, don't get me wrong. What I have a problem with is why we destroyed a major salmon lake and the deepest fjord in BC - Quesnel Lake for the sake of mining for gold. Imperial Metals were never even fined! But you get what I mean. I cannot afford to buy any gold myself as personally I do not need it for anything. I do have a few small pieces of gold - family stuff and what not, but those are tokens. The bottom line is, if tomorrow everyone says , sorry, gold is worth nothing to me, its value will be exactly that - nothing. But I cannot say, sorry, food, water and air are worth nothing to me. I cannot say bears, eagles, salmon, whales, moose, cougars, elk, caribou, forests, lakes, peace and quiet are worth nothing to me. I can get along without gold just fine as I have been for half a century, but some of the other items I mentioned, I need every second of the day.

I think I got myself drunk beyond the point of being able to comprehend economic concepts, all one sip at a time. I like the word "confidence". I think this is all that a currency is based on. Confidence there is going to be food in the store tomorrow. I , however have no confidence in gold and no confidence that the way things are going, I will find food in the store tomorrow. Well, ,not exactly tomorrow, but....5 years from now......

Now this gets me even more confused. Burning oceans of gas to extract the gold is one thing, going on war for gold is another. Were those people so brainwashed to kill one another over the useless metal, or am I going crazy?

Good points. So what happens when after digging all the gold out of the ground we damage the environment to the point where it can produce no food for all of us. Or what happens when population growth makes it impossible to feed everyone with the remaining capacities? I think the value of gold then will have to hit rock bottom, because no matter how much gold one has it may not be enough to buy him a chicken. And people do not eat or breath gold. So whatever the answer is, gold still remains useless in my view, and a cryptocurrency or whatever IOU would be better. At least producing those does no damage to the environment.

Why not use tigers and elephants as a currency then? Those are so scarce that no one will be able to pay for them any more. But the bottom line is a currency stores value! Value is material and labor you can buy. Material is more or less useless if you have no labor. Labor cannot exist without food and proper conditions to life (clean air, water, quality of life) So logically the most important currency is FOOD and whatever else keeps labor available. But food is perishable.

I see a guy is asking "How does cryptocurrency work?". It must work the same way as how gold works. No? You think gold is a precious metal and unlike the cryptocurrency it is material; you can actually weigh it and hold it in your hand. It has been around and valued high through the history of mankind, BUT....... IT IS EQUALLY USELESS Well of course you can make jewelry out of it, but whether you put a piece of rock, steel, wood, whatever; a jewelry is a piece of decoration which is practically useless. You can also use gold in the hi-tech industry in very limited quantities; not that you can put all of what comes out of the ground in any practical use. But , finally, gold is a symbol of status. Kings had gold crowns and cutlery and the metal has been valued high through our history. No doubt gold plays a role in growing our capitalist society. My guess is that the richest of the rich are amassing gold as there is nothing more they can take. So we have huge mining operations in pristine natural habitat on top of glaciers in the mountains. Those produce tons and tons of toxic emissions and destroy the lands of grizzlies and the spawning habitat of salmon; the homes of many other species. They produce green house gasses and threaten the lives of all of us. All for the sake of digging the useless shit out of the ground. A cryptocurrency, although equally useless, would at least be more environmentally friendly. You might have different views than mine and sharing them here and defending them would help me a lot.

Update: Contacted a lawyer and asked him if my case will be allowed to run its course through the legal system. He provided no response. I take it he has no idea. The other morning while on the road my phone rings. It is the CBSA. They tell me they will refund the full amount of what I paid. Even without me filing any paperwork!!!!!!! But they do not admit any mistake. It was the mistake of whoever entered the info in the system because they say they "do not read customs declarations"!!!! I still wanted to tell them what I thought of them, which was going to come up in court but anyways. I can say it here. We look like our Queen is so poor that it is about to go naked and I have to pay for her panties through taxes on my $25 son's tournament award or the purchase of used small sporting goods across the border. Again, pathetic! But they escaped my wrath again.

GST - good and services (sales) tax PST - provincial sales tax No purchase or sale took place. I will keep you posted how it went. If I end up paying them another $200 in filing fees and whatever charges, at least I will have the pleasure of calling them what they are and leaving a public record of it.

My son's tournament award is not a purchase! He does not work and has no income ! They will not give the award to him unless he forks out about 50% of its value to them! And you tell me I have to put up with that and there is nothing I can do? When I buy used fishing rods abroad they get me, just because the rod goes into their system. When I buy the same used rod in Canada I pay no GST or PST as the transaction cannot be tracked by the government. Years ago I got about 80% of my items without any such taxes on them. I assumed that there was a limit of whatever dollars per person and once you went over it, they started charging the taxes. Now they do it on each every item - even gifts with a value of $25!!!!!! Completely Pathetic! I will tell you what I will do; file a complaint with them to see what they have to say. Then file a small claim for extortion against CBSA, Canada Post and Her Majesty and make it all go public on CBC!

I have an issue that irks me from time to time. I always say it is not worth pursuing and move on, but then it all come back and it looks uglier and uglier every time. A month ago I bought a fishing rod on Ebay. The fellow in the States made a mistake and mailed me the wrong rod. He also let me know ahead of time that this has happened and I was going to return the wrong rod, but , as it happens the road was not delivered to me but to my wife. She paid the extortionists the customs fees and more - whatever they asked for. or you do not get the item. The payment was collected at my front door. No hassle there. When I went to return the package at Canada post, they accepted it, but did not refund the fees! I was supposed to file a claim with CBSA, mail them original documents, proof that the item was shipped and then wait.... I did all of that. In the meantime the correct rod arrived and I paid the same fees on it again. A month later, no refund from CBSA. I asked them again what the heck is going on. They started asking me now for proof that I paid the customs duties on the second rod (the correct one). I did tell them to go and......you guess what. They are the guys who should have all of this info and should not be asking me for proof and giving me more trouble Finally they paid what they took less $9.95, which they said could only be refunded by Canada Post. I was supposed to file more claims for that. I gave up. Today my son received a gift from the States. He plays in some computer tournaments and wins prizes. The prize had an indicated value of USD 25 and declared a gift! Once it got into Canada it went into the hands of CBSA and Canada Post (not sure in what order) and the final result is visible by their paperwork below. On the gift of $25 my son was asked to pay $13.90 so he can actually see his gift. Or they will not give it to him!!!!!!! If there are any lawyers among us, or students with god knowledge I will really appreciate your advice on how this case can be handled. It is not about the money it is about the principle! This type of BS needs to end!

Tigers do not need homes. And as a result they do no damage to their ecosystem. We do! In this respect they were smarter than us! But then speaking about homes, think about beavers - they can build homes and dams and bridges. Think about insects for example - ants and bees and wasps; they can build homes and have colonies and have kings and queens - just like in Great Britain! Birds - same thing. Think about salmon - they have no GPS units but always find their ways. But none of those species is complacent as we are. We think we are number one in the whole F. Universe! The reality is we are primitive and do not understand how the world works. Since we do not, it would be better to adopt a more humble attitude and show some care for the inferior species. At the end of the day, whatever we come up with is a product of our brains, which again were given to us by something else. we did not make those brains. We cannot take 80kg of non-organic matter and turn it into a human or an animal of 80kg. Only nature can do that. .....just saying.....

So what is being intelligent? It may be a product of your own perceptions about yourself or what your teachers or friends told you, but there is always a higher power and level of intelligence. Looking from that higher point of view, with all your intelligence you will still appear stupid and primitive. Animals are looking for food. People are looking for money. At the end of the day, all animals and humans do about the same thing - eat, shit and f* with some entertainment in between. Oh, yes, we like to figure things out and find new challenges (only some of us, and I do not know where I stand there any more) but the final results are not impressive. Take the computer games, internet, other screen entertainment aside and see what is left. What is left is work, and more work and being stuck in industrial environments with noise, light, gas and all other kinds of pollution. And for what? This is what we have built and is supposed to keep us excited? We in Canada still advertise our pristine environment and wildlife. we put those on websites, stamps, in magazines, on our shirts and coffee cups. But pretty soon those will be the only places to find them ; not in the forest or the ocean where they used to live. Yes, we have been f* by politicians; yes, immigration is part of the problem. Our consumer culture is also a problem; and the market based economy is yet another problem. Do you listen to the radio any more? I do not. Because I am sick of having someone tell me what I need to buy and what is on sale in their stores today. I am sick of having to buy mountains of cheap China made plastic and then buy some more a few months or a year later, because this is where they are all made and this is the quality I have to be happy with today! Every time we buy something, we pay for the transportation of our raw materials to China, the manufacture of the crappy item and its delivery back to the local store. And somewhere along the process, our bears, moose, deer, elk, goats, cougars, whales and hundreds of other smaller animals, birds, reptiles and insects get killed and wiped out. Remember that! Bringing the 300,000 immigrants/year virtually creates a new city of 300,000 in Canada, each and every year. They all need their toys and plastic shit in addition to food, houses, airplanes to fly them, furniture and cars. This puts another 300,000 vehicles on the roads in Canada, killing wildlife and of course more forests need to be chopped down, more mines need to be built and the pressure for more pipelines increases, because we have no other jobs to offer those people. The value-added processing jobs were all given to China (the "developing" country). We the highly developed country can only dig the ground to extract our raw materials and sell them to survive! Talk about intelligence......something Canadian politicians are lacking. So it is a vicious circle and there are many areas where meaningful improvements can be made. But if we are concerned with what truck the neighbor has, what house, what boat, how many times he puts his ass on a plane, and we want to match that....IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

This is not an accident. An accident is when a tree falls on a bear. This is a road constructed by us with the full knowledge it will kill wildlife. Then we put more and more trucks and pickups on it to "grow the economy" again with the full knowledge this will be killing wildlife. Finally we started cracking a whip behind those truck drivers asking them to go faster and faster to make us more money, again knowing they will have no time to stop for a bear! This is all premeditated carnage! I told you I am against population growth, GDP growth, whatever growth.....so stop teaching me what I already agree with.

This is what GROWING THE ECONOMY looks like:

This thread could fall under "Business and Economy" , "Political Philosophy", "Federal Politics" or a number of other forums. I chose this one, as I might have to use profanities and I would hate to get any more demerit points for picking the wrong venue. So here we go....... You must have all wondered about our political systems - socialism, communism, capitalism, monarchies and democracies and what is better for us , and by "us" we often think about the average hard working person. Everyone has their own perception about them but there is one element we cannot deny. All of these systems have used and are still using money. A monetary system supposedly rewards hard work, ingenuity , talent, all those idealistic things we are made to believe are the drivers of progress. And by progress, again one believes this is what makes peoples' lives easier and better. Or maybe this is what makes our civilization go a step further out into space? But how did we get here? Did we not have another trade system before money was devised. Yes, we did. It is known that in the past people exchanged goods and this is how trades were made. Money however has the capacity to hold the value of perishable items, or to store the value of labor or to store the value of all non-perishable items like gold for example. And since this was made possible, it appears money provides the platform for people to amass tremendous amount of "wealth" and control over others. They can now cut down all trees and, given there is a sufficient population increase (new customers) those can be converted into cash. Similarly, all gold can be dug out of the ground and kept by those who have more than enough (although if you ask them what they can do with it, the best answer they can give you is "resell"). They can now sell all land for a profit and again grow their money as long as they grow the human population and the number of customers. Population growth means more wilderness needs to be stolen from the other species and developed to provide habitation to humans. We can call the process "land calcification" since from space, this is what it all looks like. The green spaces, which allowed the planet to breathe and provide oxygen to all living things are now replaced by houses, parking lots, plants, mines and industrial structures and facilities of all sorts. The surface of the paved roads alone will be no doubt impressive. Growing population has a huge impact on areas that are scarcely populated as well. Those areas now serve as material reserves for the billions of people (or should we not call them cockroaches, excuse me the temptation) who live in the big cities. They expect to find products and food in the stores but those do not grow there and have to be delivered to them from the healthy ecosystem that can still produce them. But the healthy ecosystem is becoming less and less, and is being squeezed to the limit by those who believe in "growing the economy" and "making money". many do not realize that the billions or trillions of dollars they have can no longer by them the equivalent in food, because this amount of food cannot be grown on the remaining land. Given the environmental catastrophy we are facing also as a result of our money based economy, I am sure we will eventually come to a point where the cockroaches will not find food in the stores and this will be the final point where it will all collapse. How did we come to this point? We were lead and consistently brainwashed over centuries by some really fat cockroaches who had an easy life and who deceived us in many conceivable and inconceivable ways. They made us to believe that all land belongs to humans and is "crown land". They made us to believe that everything is out there to take and the other species are objects to be eaten, used or killed for sport. It was an easy sell when we had only one or two billion people with many unexplored and uninhabited territories and plenty of wildlife. It was easy when cars were fewer or did not exist and human needs were smaller. It was of course easier when products were not wrapped in plastic and then put into another plastic bag to go into a plastic container. When there were no 4-wheelers, snowmobiles, motor boats and all other toys we have today. It is not that easy now with over 8 billion of us crawling and shitting all over the place. Shit was going to be still fine. But we dig all toxic sludge from kilometers below the surface, convert that into something even deadlier and release it into the thin layer on, below and over the land's surface that is capable of sustaining life and producing food for us! Yes, we are cockroaches, ruled by fatter cockroaches! We prize our smarts and think we are born for great things. But all great inventions by the smartest of us were used for only one purpose - to propagate the human population and allow it to exterminate all other species even faster! And by doing that - pushing ourselves to our own extinction. Yes, we talk about sustainability, planting trees, having an endangered species act and all kinds of other hypocritical rules and measures. The fat cockroaches do not want to tell us the truth, not to create panic that may affect share prices, currency rates, real estate prices and whatever else is keeping this madness still going. But it won't be going for much longer, the writing is on the wall. Below are satellite images from Bujumbura (Burundi), Chicago (USA), London (UK), Toronto (Canada) and the coastal rain forest in BC showing all the clear cuts that are now the norm all over the mountains.

Appears to be the Canadian Museum for Human Rights as shown in a 2014 stamp edition:

This is to make a person think the price is a result of some real calculation involving production and transportation costs, profit margin and what not, but no, now we can be sure all is pure guesswork and manipulation to extort to the highest amount of cash from our pockets. Not that I can do much about it, but when at the end of the shopping I go to the automated self-check out, where the voice of their Siri starts reading the prices in her mechanical voice and after each one keeps saying "and ninety seven cents" , I start thinking, why the heck did we not have a banknote like the one below to begin with and make calculations easier??? !!!

Now that we no longer have 1 cent coins and even the 5 cent and the dime seem totally irrelevant, we go to a store like Wal-Mart, or any other store to find price tags reading like.........well lets leave the pictures speak for themselves:

Given we ship all of out trees to Asia, which is mountains and mountains of biomass going that way, we should import biomass somehow. When all those millions of Nigerians start perish they should return the nutrients into the soil. I imagine this is what Trudeau meant by "contribution".

I actually agreed with you on immigration in my second post above and gave you a like.

I can see the Chinse being royally screwed without tiger balm, and all those special animal parts that are supposed to help Chinese men with their night life functions. Probably this will eventually lead to a decline in the Chinese population.

And why is that???? Because you can talk and walk on two legs??? What exactly is your positive contribution to the environment? Don't strain your brains, I will answer this for you. Your contribution is actually negative; not because you are stupid but because smarter people before you gave the humankind a huge technological advantage to all other forms of life. You can now go shopping while someone is raping the environment on your behalf, you can take a flight putting pollution in the atmosphere to go to that exotic beach to look at those girls in their bikinis; drive your truck on the highways doing 120km'h and killing animals of all shapes and forms; you can type on a forum what you think that you think, jump on a dirt bike, a boat or a snowmobile and fart carbon in the atmosphere while feeling entitled. But the bottom line is that the positives you can give in the form of processing food and producing food for the plants and insects to close the circle of life, is grossly outweighed by your toxic emissions. You are not faster than a tiger, you are 100 or more times weaker, you do not have the endurance and will never survive in the wild a whole season without help, your eyes are not as good as his, you are smaller and inferior. And no one will give a dime to see your head and skin stretched by a fireplace. You are not worth a tiger's claw. But in your own eyes and purely for yourself your life is way more important. think at it from another perspective. Universe is relatively endless, so there are endless opportunities that there are other species out there. Species that can come over and take over the land the way we do. And if they have your type of brain functions they will make pet food out of you; for their pets. Because their lives will be infinitely more precious than yours.