dialamah

Stoning comes from the Bible, but not, oddly, from the Quran. Still, Muslims picked it up as a good idea. Honor killings happen among Muslims, Hindus and Christians from the middle East and Africa. FGM comes from animalistic religions predating both Christianity and Islam and is still practiced by both Christians and Muslims (and other local religions) in the ME and Africa. There is even a sect of Jews who practiced it until, IIRC, the 1970s. Child marriages and plural marriages are practiced by both Muslims and Christians. I recently watched a doc where the Christian Pastor admitted he couldn't do much about it, these people believed men had the right to multiple wives but he hoped over time to bring them more in line with Western Christian standards. Most of the 'backward, barbaric, ignorant' attitudes held by Muslims in the ME and Africa will also be held by Christians, homophobia and misogyny included. Killing of infidels is uniquely ISIS inspired as far as I know. The Quran doesn't support it, except in the case of war. Killing of Westerners is also uniquely ISIS inspired. The Inquisition and related torture was uniquely Catholic inspired, I believe. Given all of this, I fail to see how Islam rates worse than other religions, other than their current popularity on media and unrelenting propoganda by certain groups.

@Goddess I agree, Egypt has some serious issues with extremists at its borders and inside the country and Sisi's efforts to address those issues have not been entirely successful.

That's ok, but if you can't come up with better arguments then "I just disagree" maybe you shouldn't even bother.

Evidence has been presented. You just can't see outside your xenophobic, anti-Muslim, echo-chamber bubble.

They went to Mosque more. In Muslim countries women tend not to go to Mosque as often or in as great a number as men because "Its a man's world" so they stay at home. In a free country, where young Muslim women are learning they matter and are entitled to equality and respect, perhaps this is a way of asserting those values. Anyway, very devout Christians can go to Church three times a week and still support gays; why shouldn't Muslims be able to do the same? Other than your xenophobia if course. The survey said nothing about "defiant symbol of refusal to integrate" - that is entirely your own interpretation used to justify your hatred and fear of people who look different than you.

Your primary problem is that you refuse to acknowledge the reality of extremists such as ISIS and the real life of Muslims in many of these these countries. Its true that Muslim countries impose legal sanctions for being gay, but a minority have death penalty and some of them rarely, if ever, carry it out. Same-sex sexual activity is a crime in 70 countries. Some of them, including six nations that are members of the United Nations, impose the death penalty. Another five make such punishment technically possible, even though it is rarely enforced. In 26 other countries, the maximum penalty is prison with terms varying anywhere from a few years to life imprisonment. And it's not as if citizens are automatically turning in their gay loved ones, either. "How families respond to a coming out depends on several factors, including social class and their level of education. In the more extreme cases, coming out results in the person being ostracised by their family or even physically attacked. A less harsh reaction is to seek a “cure” – either through religion or, in better-off families – through expensive but futile psychiatric treatment." Seeking a cure for gayness - still a thing for some conservative Christian types, as well as Muslins, but a far cry from turning people over to authorities for imprisonment or execution. And here's a couple of first person accounts of people who have come out to family and friends in Egypt and are neither in jail, nor dead. Citizens have also expressed disapproval of government attempts to crack down on gays. The development of social media has also created space for a more informal kind of activism which seems to have proved successful in a couple of instances recently. One came in 2014 when police and a TV channel collaborated in a raid on a Cairo bathhouse. Far from winning praise for exposing “the secret behind the spreading of Aids in Egypt”, the programme’s presenter was resoundingly condemned and later ran into legal problems. Last April, the authorities in Amman, Jordan, cancelled a concert by Mashrou’ Leila, a popular Lebanese rock band with an openly gay singer, just a few days before it was due to take place. Such was the outcry on social media that the authorities rescinded their decision 24 hours later – though too late to reorganise the concert as originally planned. Small steps, to be sure, but clear evidence that there is no "One size fits all" Muslim attitude or belief. None of this denies that Islamic countries are homophobic in the extreme or that gay people are persecuted, beaten and killed in these countries. But your "Muslims want to kill gays" is so far from reality as to be an outright falsehood. You keep repeating it because you get your information from Islamophobic websites that cater to your xenophobia instead of employing any common sense or actual fact gathering and checking. By the way, Kenya, Uganda and Russia are examples of Christian countries that have laws against homosexuality. Uganda wanted to impose a death penalty, encouraged by American evangelicals, but the world made noise and they backed down. Something similar happened in Brunei recently. Homophobia and brutality have no religion.

Kansas would disagree. "Moreover, Kansas revenues plunged, leading to cuts to education and other vital services and downgrades in the state’s bond rating. On June 6, 2017, the legislature terminated what Brownback had termed a “real live experiment” in supply-side tax policy, repealing the business profits exemption and moving income tax rates back toward where they had started."

They are the same. Islam just happens to be featured on media more, at the moment, in Western countries. Do you suppose that is Islamic countries, they don't use our most garish news stories to demonstrate how evil Western secularism is?

1. The issue is preventing individuals from being able to carry out mass shootings of a country's citizens. One of the roles of government is to protect citizens from being randomly killed while they peacefully go about their daily lives. 2. And what's in it for them, again? That speech demonizing them should flow unfettered, inspiring people to get easily obtainable guns to mow them down, is that right. Hard to understand why they're not all over that! 3. Ridiculous assertion. She demonstrated both empathy and leadership, something many leaders fail miserably at. 4. Sadly, this is true. 5. The killer felt nothing for them either; just vermin to be exterminated. Recall the woman lying on the road, begging for help - your great "freedom fighter" shot her in the back. I assume your priority for protecting hate speech and easy access to guns over mowing folks down is because you are a white guy in a safe white country who is least likely to be targeted by these killers. Killing Jews and Muslims is fine, as long as you get to be an asshole and play with guns.

Mohammed got all his ideas from the Jews, Christians and others he ran across on his travels. He combined them to create a "new" religion and said God did it. There is virtually nothing in the Quran that can't be found in the Bible, good and bad. Muslims even honor several Biblical figures. So yeah, they're all about the same. You only think Islam is worse because you are as unaware as most people of its history and teachings, and equally unaware of the barbarity of Christians throughout history and in those African countries where Christianity still controls populations. But really it's not the religions themselves; it's that people use religion to justify their own barbarity. And of course the teachings of religion make it easy, by providing many statements that can be used to support and justify any behavior, good or bad.

Needs a cite. Here's one from 2013. Is this the story you are referring to?

Really? Nobody would defend Christians if there was an attempt to use their most extreme minority as if that was their norm? Find that hard to believe. All religions are barbaric, if taken to extremes ... which generally happens when they gain political power. The adherents to a religion may or may not fully endorse all the barbarity of their religion. Just because an authoritarian regime decrees death to those practicing homosexuality does not mean that everyone in that country agrees, yet that's what too many on this board assume. Assuming that a man who illegally shoots up a planned parenthood office represents all Christians is no more accurate than assuming that the ISIS terrorists who threw homosexuals off a roof represents all Muslims and an example of what they'll do if given a chance in Canada. Yet in the real world of Islam, there is no punishment for homosexuality specified in the Quran; punishments are defined in the hadiths and are varied. Even the Islamic countries which have a death penalty for homosexuality tend not to carry them out. That is the problem you seem to remain blind to - the agenda of these "critics of Islam" isn't to criticize Islam, it's to demonize Muslims using every example of extreme behavior to prove that Muslims are evil.

Is there a thread on here designed to prove the evil of Christians based on what these Southern US religious types are doing? Are there people on here who regularly declare Christians an existestential threat to Western civilization because of these Southern US religious types? If a Southern US religious type commits a murder or rape, does anyone pop on here to declare that Christians do this kind of stuff because their religion demands it? Do they also ask "why aren't all Christians condemning the behavior of these southern US religious types"? Genuine criticism doesn't demonize entire groups of people. That is the difference you don't seem to get.

A hate crime is an assault on a person's identity and an implied threat of violence. 2043 such crimes are quite a lot. Oh really? So murder only counts if Muslims do it? And how do you "count" it if it's a second or third generation Canadian born Muslim? Yawn. More rhetoric thought up by the leaders in the White Nationalists movement. Facts and history demonstrate that immigrants take on the values and culture of their host countries over one or two generations. Even the survey you tried to use to 'prove' Muslims were becoming more extreme actually showed that younger, second generation Muslims were closer to Canadian values than their parents. You don't have a worry; you merely want one to justify your xenophobic attitudes.

Just off the top of my head ... Donald Trump, Geert Wilders, Marine Le Pen, Tommie Robinson, Faith Goldy, Steve Bannon, Ezra Levant, Andrew Breitbart. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you ... European alt-right group seeks foothold in Canada. Canada’s new far right: A trove of private chat room messages reveals an extremist subculture. So far Canada has largely resisted these influences, and I believe the majority of American citizens as well. Many people speak up when alt-right and anti-immigrant rhetoric is posted or expressed in public. People are becoming more aware that not everything they see on 'alternative media' is true. But still far too many people are fooled by half-truths and falsehoods disseminated about non-white immigrants. To think there isn't a campaign of disinformation and attempts to sway Canadians to vilify and reject non-white immigrants is really naive.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

You clearly miss the point. Just over a million Muslims live in Canada but if one is on the news for any kind of bad behavior, our "critics of Islam" say 'look! It's because if Islam! Our society is doomed!" Of course the million other Muslims who never break a law and appear on the evening news, or the few who show up on the news because of how well they've done integrating, working, creating jobs, contributing to our society are dismissed by these "Critics of Islam" as aberrations. In this case, MH talked about White Supremacists targeting Muslims in Canada. This triggered a "Critic of Islam" to quickly declare that Muslims in France are behaving badly. And then you do your usual simplistic and disingenuous "oh but Islam is bad, if only you leftists would realize it". That is not the issue MH was remarking on: scapegoating Muslims was. Try paying attention for a change.

You do realize that most Christians and conservatives had to be dragged, kicking and screaming all the way, into a progressive era don't you? And that even now there are Christians and conservatives who would gladly turn back the clock. Even right now, many Christians and conservatives are following the same path with transgenderism-declaring it a mental illness, people just making things up and looking for attention, the failure of "liberals" to properly maintain the status quo (or morality if one is a Christian). All the same arguments used to fight against women's rights, gay rights and abortion. If we "progressives" managed to force human rights down the throats of a few million Christians and conservatives, I don't imagine a few thousand immigrants are going to be a problem. Especially given that by the second generation they're already making strides in progressive values. Just like all Canadians, it's only the old folks clinging to the old ways that hold us back.

Our immigration system is based on merit and is well-respected around the world. The people who think it needs to be "fixed" by asking "value questions" simply do not understand the problems they think "fixing immigration" will fix. Immigrants do not cause crime; they reduce it in the neighborhoods into which they initially move. Asking value questions of them will not change the behavior of their children and grandchildren who will eventually "integrate" into the same crime rates as all Canadians. Misogynistic practices are alive and well in many groups of Canadians, immigrant and non-immigrant. Asking "value questions" will do nothing to change that. Education and help for women looking to escape abuse will help. Radicalization is not limited to young men and women of the Muslim faith. Addressing root causes of extremism would be much more effective than asking "value questions" of immigrants. This idea is just pandering to white nationalism and xenophobes. Politics of fear. Pretty sad to see in Canada.

I have and so have others. You dismiss them as if they don't exist and then say we've never provided any proof. Anyway, if you aren't worried about hundreds of actual attacks against Blacks, Jews, Muslims and others in Canada, why should anyone be concerned about Islamic terrorism or even extremism in Canada, when there've only been about 3 attacks by Muslins?

According to experts, which you are not, hate crimes rise as a result of anti-immigrant and alt-right rhetoric becoming more common and acceptable. This includes false claims that immigration increases crime rates, spread by Trump and others. Rhetoric that demonizes women who wear head coverings and laws that target them increase hate crimes, in Quebec and other countries. Hate crimes don't increase unless people think their hate is acceptable. Because of people like Trump andTommy Robinson and media like the Rebel and.Breitbart, not to mention the many people who believe and repeat alt.right and white nationalist rhetoric without even knowing it, hatred of the 'other' is becoming increasingly acceptable. While you may not think that graffiti on your place of worship, being abused and humiliated in public or having someone rip off your clothing is a big deal, this is only the beginning. Dismissing it as unimportant will let it get worse and spread.

I'm critical of people who support ISIS interpretation of Islam, and reject any other interpretation. Like you do. Your "definition" of Islamophobia is just more of your lies. Here's an actual definition. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter if the killer calls themselves "Muslim" or "Protector of the White Race" or "Proud American", the same hatred and fear of "other" drives them.

Whose values and morals, though? I think that people who believe they are transgender should be allowed to pursue treatment for that, once they are adults. Other people would have it that transgendered people are confused, mentally ill, looking for attention, being exploited by "liberals" and that kids should be prevented from expressing their sense of being the wrong gender. I believe that gay people should be able to get married, if they want. Despite laws being passed enabling them, many people still believe that's a sin against God and that our country is morally corrupt for allowing it. I think abortion is entirely a woman's (and her partner's) choice, even late term abortion. Many people believe that abortion is murder, regardless of the age of the embryo or fetus. I believe that individuals should be judged on their merits, and that broadbrushing an entire group due to the sins of a few of that group is wrong. Other people are perfectly comfortable assuming that Muslims are (about to be) terrorists, are anti-semitic, misogynistic; that Somali Canadians prefer crime to an honest life; that First Nations are lazy drunkards and only want handouts from the rest of us. So whose "morals and values" should we be using to 'test' immigrants? You might say that 'the majority' should rule, but sometimes the majority is wrong, especially when it comes to progressive social values - such as allowing women the right to vote and not jailing gays. Not to mention that in recent years we have apologized to various groups because "the majority" led us to refusing asylum to Jews and to incarcerating Japanese for the "crime" of being Japanese during the second world war. "The majority" is not always on the right side.

Whilst a lot of Islamophobia comes from you, DoP, Argus, and several others on here, but you never object to that. Quite disgusting, IMO.

4 decades of research demonstrate that immigration is linked to lower crime rates. But the conservative, anti-immigrant lobby continues to push the myth that immigrants mean more crime. This is politics of fear, and you are buying right in. Why?