dialamah

I'm not "ok" with lots of things that people choose to do, but if it is their choice, I have to just shrug. Vaping, for instance - smells bad, is stupid and has now killed people. But it's not illegal so ... shrug. True, and its heartbreaking to read first person accounts about young girls who are expected to dress a certain way for "honor and respect", who hate and who feel dehumanized or even sexualized because of it - I recall a girl wondering why she had to cover in front of her father; did it mean he thought of her in a sexual way? Stories like that make me very sad. I think Muslims growing up in Western countries will be able to change this idea of "honor" to one of choice, and an honest expression of faith or modesty rather than a forced one. I think that the internet is allowing upcoming generations in more repressive countries also understand that there are other choices and that they do have a right to them. I think it will be a natural progression of Islam that women will choose for themselves, whether or not to cover. Although really, as I write this I'm thinking - is that seriously the most pressing issue for women living in oppressive circumstances, whether imposed by government or family? I think not.

I think the point is that a story of families/kids watching Frozen being attacked by a Muslim with a machete on their way out of the theater is very different than a story about young men watching a gang flick and then getting into a brawl in which a machete was used. You misstated the facts in an attempt to make Muslims look more violent and dangerous. Kinda like you did with that whole t-shirt thing. (Yeah, I was gonna ignore you for a while and let you have the last word, but you post such BS, it's hard to sit on my hands. )

Goddess has a unique ability to absolutely know and understand people from the most surface of interactions, often needing only a picture or a news story to deduce all kinds of things about people! Its uncanny, really. And from your profile pic, she's deduced that you are an evil Islamic overlord, itching to beat up women and behead gays. /s Ok, so maybe you are ok with Burkas. I'm not, I think they're ugly and dehumanizing. I also think it's up to individuals to wear what they want. If a Burka is forced on a woman, that is wrong as far as I'm concerned. If it's her free choice, I shrug. Or maybe your pic is a troll for the local crew.

Like the way you, Argus and others are offended by hijabs and burkas, so those women, or their husbands/fathers/brothers must be doing something wrong. Have you ever considered that for yourself? Funny how criticism of white society/white men is condemned by right-wingers as "reverse racism" and all because of "liberal guilt", but critisicm of anyone else is "free speech". Oh yeah, listened to someone in a grocery store say some really nasty stuff about minority groups the other day, and finish up by saying "Don Cherry said so, and he knows." Racism spreads, Cherry was part of that. I don't blame him he's old and that's how he grew up, but glad he's off the air.

Yeah, and aren't the people who declare Canada "broken" generally the same ones claiming that immigrants want to come here because its so great? Just because someone don't like the current governance doesn't mean the entire country is destroyed, what's up with that hyperbole anyway?

Now see, Goddess, you know perfectly well that I don't see any religion as a "force for good", as I've said many times, so why do you lie like this? What is it about you anti-Islam fanatics that you must couch everything in extreme terms? I condemn sexual assault, violent behavior, most lying, cheating, murder, torture, beheadings, throwing gays off roofs, beating them to death in Stanley Park (or anywhere), jailing them, terrorism, pedophilia, child porn, anti-Semitism, Islamaphobia, domestic violence, FGM, child abuse, child marriage - regardless of faith, ethnic background or skin color. Just because I haven't been stupid enough to fall for the "Muslims are evil", ("except for a few good ones" added so you think you don't sound Islamophobic or racist) propaganda that you and your cohorts have fallen for doesn't mean I automatically think "brown" people or even Muslims can do no wrong. I think you say that only because you have no actual good argument to what I post. But I'll leave you now, so you can have the last word - I know you like that, and the app has notified me of another response from you. Besides, this is getting boring again. Ciao for now.

JW "dangerous"? Your life was never in danger. You weren't even in any danger from anyone when you left, save possibly your husband, if he was violent. Yes, you lost all or most of your family and social support when you chose to leave, and that's rough. It's no less rough for refugees and immigrants who come here from other countries. But rather then compassion for them, who suffer as you have in loss of family, friends and their place in the world, you assume the worst about them. Especially those who've been traumatized by war and violence, such as Syrian refugees. Instead of considering their humanity, you lump them under an umbrella you call "Islam" and assume the motivation of the refugee men who exploded in anger at you, or the refugee boy who inappropriately touched a girl, or the refugee boy who is accused of murder of another girl is because of "Islam", and dismiss the trauma of war and living in a refugee camp, poverty stricken and at risk.of.physical and sexual violence for years. You begrudge these people the free expression of their faith, and instead accuse them, many of them direct victims of physical and sexual violence from the true extremists, of all manner of horrific beliefs, intentions and behavior just because they're Muslim. Pretty pathetic.

You mean, when I point out the lack of demonizing men as a counterpoint to the regular demonizing of Muslims? Sometimes I seriously wonder about your reading comprehension.

You had, as I recall, two bad experiences with Muslim men. Now you regularly post, on this forum, about the evils of Islam. I have been sexually victimized by a pedophile when I was 12, my best friends father when I was sixteen, and two men as an adult. All white, two of them self-described "Christian" men. My sister was raped at knifepoint by a white guy. My daughter and niece were victimized by a "friend of the family" babysitter. You don't see me on here preaching the evils of men and our Canadian misogynistic culture where these things still flourish, despite changing cultural modes and legislation designed to prevent and punish. There's a big difference between acknowledging a problem, addressing it, and demonizing an entire group because some of them are assholes.

Another of your generalizations. There are activists in Muslim-majority countries who are trying to "root it out". There are governments of Muslim majority governments who implement legislation designed to give women more rights and more protection. Yes, the governments and authorities could be doing much more, but they are trying. But you want to ignore that, and make sure no one talks about it. Sapper is too lazy to even read links posted on this forum, as he's asserted many times. His view of Islam is formed by sensational news stories, not any real knowledge, or desire to learn about different cultures or parts of the world. You, on the other hand, only want to pay attention to information that supports your "Muslims are evil because they follow Islam" decision.

Irrelevant, and you know it. What I don't do is focus on every single rape news story, every single child porn story, every single pedophile story to beat a "men are evil" drum, like you do with Muslims. I don't demand that all the men who don't rape must prove to me that they condemn men who do rape, like you do with Muslims. I don't insist that my personal experience of pedophilia and rape is indicative of the behavior of men in general, like you do with Muslims.

You don't want to discuss misogyny unless its Islam/Muslims. Why is that? If immigrant populations suffer higher rates of domestic and sexual violence then third+ generation Canadians (which I believe to be true, based on research I've done), why do you keep insisting that Islam is the problem? Why don't you want to address the issue of misogyny wherever it occurs, instead of just Muslim misogyny? Could it be because putting Muslims in context with similar, but non-Muslim groups, makes it harder to demonize Muslims?

What would you think if, every time a rape was reported on the news, certain women reliably reported it on a thread here, and made sweeping generalizations about men's backward and misogynistic beliefs, how barbaric men are, how non-raping men needed to stand up and apologize for the rapists/pedophiles in their midst. What if these women talked about limiting men's ability to move freely within Canada or around the world, raising the alarm if men showed any interest in politics, school administration and limiting their access to public sector jobs based on how they styled their hair, or if they wore black jeans. These same women would ignore, dismiss and downplay the same crimes committed by women, insist that women were, as a group, more civilized and trustworthy than men and that is why men needed to be watched and controlled. Not like Islam, at all.

Yes, you've made your feelings clear. You are forced to ignore every Koranic scripture that allows a different belief system, and every Muslim who doesn't engage in murder or any barbaric practices to maintain that worldview, but that's how bigotry works. Christianity has its share of poor behavior throughout its six thousand year history, and has really only reformed in the last few centuries and in some regions of the world, is still far behind our Westernized Christianity. Islam, created in Christianity's image, is still well behind Westernized Christianity, but I expect its reform will occur much sooner in its history than did Christianity's reform. I think it'll happen over the next two or three generations. Of course, I could be wrong. Humans tend to become more conservative and religious when they feel threatened. Global climate change may see a resurgence of fundamentalist Christianity around the world and slowing of Islam's reform.

As I've noted before, I call out bigots and hatemongering. Oddly, I've been barred from both Islamic and Conservative groups for that; this forum is more secular, so that hasn't happened - though I have been sanctioned for being too rough on the local bigots/hatemongers. Yes, I could jump all over Altai here - but she's in the same group as Taxme, a White Supremacist bigot, who merely posts wild and largely incoherent ramblings.

I have said, many times, that Islam supports things like misogyny and homophobia, just as Christianity does. I have also pointed out that the attitudes and behaviors indulged in by Middle Eastern and North African Muslims are often the same amongst Christian groups in those regions, sometimes at the same rate, sometimes less and sometimes more. When I give money to the "Because I am a Girl" campaign, it may help a Muslim girl or a Christuan girl, or maybe a girl from one of the nativist religions. The point is that they face very similar issues, regardless of their religion. When the issue of domestic violence among immigrant Muslim communities in Canada comes up, I point out that many immigrant communities have a similar problem, regardless of faith, and any solutions will not and should not apply only to Muslims. You are the one limiting your "concern" to just a single group - but only to demonize them.

But we don't judge Catholics by the Church history, or for hiding pedophiles . If we judge all adherents to a faith or ideology by the worst examples of that ideology, why do Catholics get a pass? Same with Christians - why aren't they all tarred with those who've shot abortion providers, starved or horrifically beaten their kids based on some obscure or misinterpreted Biblical teaching, insist women submit to their husbands, men in general, forbid women positions of leadership and condemn anything except heterosexual sex within marriage. Why do Christians get a pass on judging them all by the actions of their worst?

Yes indeed, the Western value of "innocent till proven guilty" runs deep in those dastardly leftists. In exactly the same way that we don't assume everyone with a penis is a rapist and pedophile, because 10s of thousands of people with penises have raped women and children. You and many other people in Canada don't want government deficits, but look - it happens anyway. Plenty of people in Canada don't want the Trans Mountain pipeline - but the Government supports it. Most people in Alberta and Saskatchewan are desperately unhappy with our current government. Assuming that a government reflects what everybody, or even the majority, in that country wants is ridiculous, especially when that government is authoritarian in nature. You are better off quoting the Pew research, which at least uses a large sample of individuals to make their conclusions. But I suppose that research also reveals that Muslims are not a monolithic block of gay-killing misogynistic oppressors, so not suitable for your argument. I think you are racist, but you are not "all conservatives." But just as Islam provides support and validation for misogynistic and homophobic people, so does conservatism provide support for racists. I understand the yellow vests started out as protesting fuel prices in France, and were co-opted by vocal anti-immigrant groups there. By the time it landed in Canada, it claimed to be protesting carbon taxes, but is primarily anti-Islam, anti-immigrant. I'm sure not everyone in the original Yellow Vest movement is racist, but given that they live in a free country, they are able to leave that group if they disagree with the direction it's taking.

And Islamophobes only keep track of Islamic terrorism.

Agreed As a sexual orientation, pedophilia rates tend to be similar across all groups, same with homosexuality. Sexual orientations are not driven by choice, which is why pedophiles are so resistant to treatment. They are one of the two groups I think should be permanently locked up, the other being violent sociopaths.

Yes, they face persecution in their countries from authorities. Nonetheless, friends and family are often aware that they are gay, and do not turn them in or kill them. If every Muslim believed it was their duty to kill gays, there would be no stories about an "underground" gay society, or stories about heterosexual advocates for gay rights, even when those advocates also suffer for their advocacy. These stories are just as valid as the stories where families or friends turn on that gay person because it is about the differences in belief among Muslims. In the West, there are gay Mosques, including one in Toronto. Clearly, these people want and will pursue the opportunity to worship, despite the disapproval of others in their community. This is true for many other people who are working towards modernizing Islam, whether its feminists working towards eliminating FGM, or peace loving Muslims who want to counter extremist groups like ISIS. 50 years ago, in Canada, gays "hid" to avoid jail or being beaten to death by straight "Christian" men; women were (and sometimes still are) told to remain with abusive men by their Christian leaders and community. Somehow, the progressive rights we now have were gained even though the vast majority of people, at that time, called themselves Christian, believed homosexuality was wrong, women were to be submissive to their husbands and that marriage was for life, even if it was your husband who killed you. Your painting of Muslims as deliberate and eager oppressors of women/gays/minorities and yelling at people who disagree with your generalizations does a disservice to every single Muslim who is progressive in their heart, but who submits to government and community out of fear. Your continuing refusal to see past the fear-mongering media you choose insults every Muslim who comes here looking for a life. Your use of every negative media story you can find to define Muslims reveals your agenda. My brother-in-law knows there are gay Muslims, but doesn't want to talk about it. His brother denies that there are any gay Muslims. Kinda like the way some people in Canada feel about transsexuals - use whatever bathroom you want, just don't tell me about it while others claim transsexuals are mentally ill, confused or perverts - and must be controlled so they don't poison our society. Point being - there are diverse opinions and beliefs among Muslims, from extremely conservative to extremely progressive, with most somewhere in the middle.

What this survey demonstrates is that there is a wide range of beliefs among Muslims, despite "you people" insisting they're all extremists.

The vast majority of Muslims do not believe it's ok to murder people with whom they have differences. Even if they believe that homosexuality is forbidden, or that women should obey men or that Westerners are immoral, they do not go about killing them as a matter of faith. You would know this if you ever stopped to ask yourself why there are gay people and gay advocates actually LIVING in Muslim countries, or why there hasn't been an increase of gays being killed in Canada given the increase in Muslims living here in the last decade. "You people" need to start understanding what bigotry is so you can stop practicing it. "You people" need to actually get to know some Muslims and stop equating extremists with all Muslims.

You seem to lack empathy, which is one symptom of PTSD. To me you come across as brittle, not tough. You talk a good talk, in hopes of never having to walk that walk. But you could be the kindest, most giving and generous person, absolutely abhor violence, simply playing an alter-ego on here.

Nobody is stopping him, not even those who don't like what he says. They're just expressing their opinion, same as everybody. Why are so many conservatives so concerned that not everybody agrees with them?