jacee

‘Ethical oil’ argument not valid I think the oil spin doctors really blew it with the "ethical oil" campaign. It's making a joke out of them and I think it's an embarrassment to Canadians. What kind of industry pays millions for ads that are so disrespectful of another country and culture, and expects a positive outcome? What kind of industry thinks that's 'good business'. Really ...

AP: Wall Street Protest becoming more organized Pelosi supports Occupy Wall Street Occupy Wall Street: major protest against minority rule Occupy Wall Street protests spread ... Politicians are speaking in support, Democrats and Republicans. This is growing and gaining support. Government gets the message. Do the banks? Using the bank bailout money for executive bonuses was a stupid, arrogant thing to do, and they are gonna pay, imo. What a breath of fresh air, hope for real change.

Irrelevant. It's just beginning.

Then I guess we'd better be willing to step up and identify and modify when they are doing things wrong. No corporation operates in a vacuum. They need input, feedback. They are not infallible and the public has the right/responsibility to identify problems.

"Too big to fail." Bankruptcy ... irrelevant. USSTEAL bought it of its own free will. Nobody forced them to. Nobody forced them to sign a contract with the feds (not with the union) agreeing to respect obligations to elderly pensioners. USSTEAL agreed of their own free will. Now they are reneging ... on pensioners too old to work who don't have a union vote any more. Defend the crooks if you like TimG. Doesn't surprise me at all that you would. Birds of a feather ... I'm done with this discussion with you. I have nothing left to say to you that is within board rules.

Ask them. They signed the contract agreeing to it. Because they signed a contract agreeing to it. USSTEAL is "negotiating" nothing. They produced a take-it-or-leave-it offer, refused to negotiate anything, and when the workers wouldn't accept it as written, USSTEAL illegally locked them out.Now they've re-presented exactly the same 'offer' with some 'sweetening' for current workers (signing bonus, etc) to try to bribe them into selling out the elderly pensioners. Not happening. I'll just mention as well ... isn't it lucky that USSTEAL just happened to staff the operation with managers that could make coke? The managers are cranking out coke behind the picket lines and shipping it to their operations in the US. At first they blatantly LIED and said it was going to Nanticoke, which makes its own coke. Neo-Liberal Paul Martin's 'Canada' Steamship Lines ships (registered in tax haven countries) are chugging away behind the picket lines too, hauling coke out of the country that could be making steel in Canada instead. Such is the nature of PREDATORY capitalists. US STEEL is not suffering: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/united_states_steel_corporation/index.html Analyst Ratings Buy 6 Outperform 4 Hold 6 Underperform 1 Sell 1

Good points Michael. And how would we forge universal agreements such as the UN Convention on the Crimes and Punishment of Genocide (1948), War Crimes, etc. Full list here: http://www.un.org/depts/dhl/resguide/resins.htm

A little data on workplace deaths in Canada ... 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 322....362...324...324...377 Clearly workplaces in Canada are more dangerous for workers than war is for soldiers. Not denigrating the sacrifices of soldiers at all. Just pointing out that their fathers 'back home' in the factories and workplaces of Canada face higher risks of death than the young soldiers in combat. The cannibalism of the corporate war industry profitters is as dangerous at home as abroad. The corporate profiteers eat the young ... and the middle aged ... and now the elderly pensioners too.

USSTEAL bought the company with full knowledge of its obligations and signed a contract with the feds agreeing to fulfill those obligations. Now they are reneging, a violation of their legal agreement. You disgust me with your petty insults against old men who PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE EVERY DAY FOR 30 YEARS to make steel and make profits for the company. I DARE YOU to say that to their faces you snivelling scumsucking coward!!! What do you know about real work. Nothing.

Ya ... still ...Come on guys ... surely you can come up with better arguments against Iran's position than "the slaves sold themselves" You can review it here ... http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=19524&view=findpost&p=711579 So "Iran gets an equal vote" was one point raised, but of course the US has a veto ... We're not getting any real arguments aGAINST THE Un are we? Just knee jerk reactionary lazy thinking imo. If it moves differently ... SMASH IT WITH A CLUB. Not exactly words to live by. Not exactly a path to peace and harmony. Is smashing the UN with a club the answer? Frankly, I think better thinkers need to step up. Running around smashing things with clubs before you know whether they can help you or not is kinda outdated ... Actually, never was effective ... even for cave men.

The company wants the current workers to accept a contract that takes away the annual cost of living increases for 9000 pensioners, now too old to work.That's the issue I'm referring to. The current workers refuse to sell out the ELDERLY PENSIONERS. That's why the ILLEGAL LOCKOUT continues. Anyone who supports USSTEAL's position is scum in my books. The contract related to USSTEAL'S purchase of Stelco was negotiated with the federal government, not with workers. The gov is taking them to court. The court deemed this an ILLEGAL LOCKOUT. CPCFTW, TimG ... know what you are talking about before you continue blathering along the company lines. And skip the insults. This is about elderly pensioners, not current workers.

And screw the pensioners now, when they're too old to work to make up what they're taking away from them?If a corporation operates by signing a contract with no intention of keeping it ... you would say 'that's just business'? Is that good business? They haven't tried to operate for profit here, though elsewhere yes.

Perhaps some ussteal are illintentioned liars signing contracts in bad faith liars cheating families and people who just want to work but won't sell out the pensioners to lying cheating predators. It's not an all or nothing thing, all good all bad. And we have to weed them out.And my preference always is that they weed themselves out by setting standards for corporate activity themselves and mechanisms for enforcing them, like professions do. Lawyers do get disbarred by their peers, doctors get licenses suspended/revoked by other doctors, psychologists by psychologists, teachers decertify teachers, etc. Certainly the bankers who fund corporations should be setting and enforcing standards for themselves that at a minimum respect the laws. Because the bottom line for the public is don't try to tell us everything's ok, "trust us" ... not good enough ... Show us that you're policing your own operations by doing it ... publicly. Corporations are not all evil ... that's a hypothesis. Now provide the evidence.

Sometimes I wonder whether your interest goes beyond influencing eg our interpretation of our laws eg that cops should arrest people they 'think' might have consumed something illegally ... or stuff like that.And some of bc's derailing seems reflective of some influencing of issues. We're all loafers here though. Here by choice for some version of entertainment/socializing/challenging ourselves and each other to think and learn and understand each other. I was also raising the possibility of unknown lurkers whose interest may be more than loafing.

They don't seem to mind Canadian manufactured coke, even though made by high paid. US 'managers'. Ya it's a cutthroat US racket.

I agree with putting the party donation on the income tax form as I believe is done in the US.It may work even better for the process as it's convenient and easy. It would be interesting to see: When you are looking at paying taxes - Harper's grumpy wealthy supporters might not be disposed to contribute much, but those getting tax refunds might feel disposed to give at least a small one time donation even if they've never done it before. Could be good for the good guys.

I do wonder why our few US posters hang around us powerless Canucks, but we do have "their" oil, albeit underground ... First Nations ground to boot ... and under protest. That would be enough spawn some lurkers and loafers to keep 'an eye' on us.

adbusters is Canadian.

Then "America" (sic ... means US) should stop buying Canadian factories.

I didn't know it was Tony doing that. I thought it was the provincial government. They won something in court, because the lockout of workers was deemed illegal, so the locked out workers got EI benefits, now running out. I think the truth still is that Harper is giving Tony all the nasty jobs, like challenging a US giant in court.

It sounds shocking, and the right wing freaks out about such stuff, but I doubt it really is. I don't know what "payroll taxes" are but it soungs like those people are working. "benefits" like food stamps and rent subsidy may be relatively small, not like full welfare support here, and maybe extended to working poor as well (who get no benefits here). There are a lot of college graduates who can't find jobs' who may live with their parents when they're not protesting on Wall Street. In Canada those in the labour force, employed or looking for a job, are 67% of those over 15. 6. So 33% not seeking/working and they would be Seniors, people on disability pensions and some on welfare (not all, as some are "seeking"). A lot of the 15-24's would be in school some on welfare (who've left impossible family/foster situations) maybe others not on welfare (eg, summer unemployed). Some would desrease the 33% stat in Canada. We don't have partial benefits like in the US, and the standalone partial benefits would inflate the numbers higher than ours. However since ours are either full or nothing, perhaps they are a better indicator of those receiving something resembling full support. For the US data, the 18% paying no payroll or income taxes are a better indicator of those totally dependent on government 'benefits, seniors and the very poor, as they say. Not such a scary number.

Great. Now raise a family on it. The government does nothing. These are matters for the police, whose oath is to uphold our rights, to protect us all from corruption of government for the personal profit of a few. The data exists identifying the increasing accumulation of wealth - 40% and rising - by the wealthiest 1% of Canadians . That cannot continue. There's reason to suspect that some have more wealth, illegally untaxed in tax haven countries. There are people who advise on these matters. And there is data showing that some among the wealthiest pay tax of 10%, like the lowest income bracket. Let's see why. There's work to be done to prepare a case for investigation, true. Canadian registered mining industries have the worst record for violations outside the country. When the courts here won't touch it, they go to the International courts. Canada is on the hotseat for this at the UN already. Other countries talk. The law is the law. The predators may be few and insignificant to the economy, except for draining us of money, and we can do without that. Fads come and go. Obscene wealth is tacky. It's suspect for victimizing people for profit. That's just me, but I see the growing disillusion with stock market manipulation for profit. They're not smart, they're just thieves, con artists, criminals wearing ties. I don't want the state investigating anybody, just the police where there is cause. What else did he use? Really? You mean life after death? I'll stick with life thanks. Is there a hedge fund for that?

Dp

@Bonam - Raise the minimum wage to something people can actually live on. - Investigate all tax filers paying well below the assigned rate for their income bracket and recoup any illegally witheld taxes and prosecute where necessary. - Aggressively investigate Canadian money stashed in tax havens, recoup all outstanding taxes and prosecute. - Aggressively investigate and prosecute bankers/advisors 'facilitating' tax evasion. - Aggressively investigate and prosecute those associated with stock market shams - eg, INT and other stocks using false advertising to attract investors and insider information to reap profits from phantom products. - Investigate hedge funds for associated insider manipulations such as allowing mortgage products to fail so hedge funds will prosper. - Aggressive investigation of insider trading/advice. - Prosecute bankers who approve stock market listings for companies who violate human rights here or in other countries. - Raise taxes on capital gains. - Raise taxes on investment income. I don't claim to know much about the stock market, but those are a few of the problems I've come across. The quick in-and-out megaprofits from manipulated stocks seem ripe for investigation of insider trading and manipulations to me. I'm just an occasional observer, but I found one. It must be easy for those in the business to find them. - Implement MUCH stronger controls on trading, and quick and thorough prosecution of violations. We'll fill Harper's jails for hi m. And finally, make obscene and conspicuous wealth unpopular and suspect. We're moving that way anyway, moving into a time when we value the earth that sustains us, instead of paving it. So that brings me to ... outlaw all products that are not reusable, recyclable and biodegradable. And focus on sustaining all human life instead of 'rewarding' predators who prey on the lives of others. Predatory capitalism is soooooo 20th century.

If you've been reading the thread you would know that many of them are college graduates who can't find jobs. They're not enjoying unemployment. That's one reason they're protesting ... the economy, the recession caused by the banks ... you know.So count yourself lucky to have a job. They'd like to be in your shoes.