SpankyMcFarland

A few needless own goals at the RNC. Melania's speech should have been checked more carefully for copied and pasted bits.

I'm suggesting that the Romans and Greeks increased the mortality rate of battles. Discrete pitched battles surrounded by long peaceful interludes are not so much a Western construct as one of advanced civilizations. Going back to the basic human group, you might have only 30 or 40 men who could fight. Skirmishing has been the standard interaction for millennia.

Western warfare is a cultural construct as John Keegan pointed out. Other societies have had different conventions for resolving conflicts, less acutely dangerous but usually more bloody over the long term than the pitched battle. The whole idea of terrorism is arbitrary. In general, the other side are terrorists.

Opposition parties in Turkey did denounce the coup attempt as well. For them it was a case of bad and possibly worse. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/turkish-political-parties-unite-coup-attempt-160717170830139.html

Without them, we are doomed but there is a spectrum from good to bad: http://takimag.com/article/black_cop_drunk_jew_white_city_david_cole#axzz4EmxXTe3i

The Kurds are also involved with ISIL oil and migrant-trafficking. There are no clean hands. Things have not been great in Iraqi Kurdistan either: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/analysis-war-against-journalists-kurdistan-2038679912

With ISIL overall, it's probably been a plus but not by much. Lord knows what's really going on: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/17/turkeys-incirlik-air-base-resumes-anti-isil-operations/87221308/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey%E2%80%93ISIL_conflict The recent attack on Ataturk airport was attributed to ISIL which suggest they are not entirely happy with Turkish policy. On migrants, Europe isn't yet ready to get tough enough. For decades, the barrier states of West Asia and North Africa did the dirty work. Turkey is still vital while Europe changes its policies.

Basically, for Europe, migrants. They have to deal with Turkey because of this issue. Assistance on ISIL has been a plus overall but is less important politically.

Erdogan has been fortunate to run a developing economy at at a time of rapid expansion. That buys a lot of good will from voters.

More information will emerge in time, not just from government sources either. We have very little to go on right now. Erdogan seems to be nicer to Putin and Netanyahu these days than he is to Obama and Merkel, which says something about the guy.

I guess we will have to wait and see who these rebels are. If they are all Hizmet followers, there's a case to be made.

For Canadians, US shows are much easier to understand than UK ones. Our particular type of North American English is used beyond this continent when people have to use it but they prefer to use their own and their cultures are different. Not all shows translate. Some would need subtitles and background.

Because you produce a lot more product than we do in a language intelligible to most of us. The same thing happens in many parts of the world, e.g. British Isles, Indian subcontinent etc. The meltdown idea arises in the US and is part of the way we think now. Everything is the worst crisis ever.

This is a US Politics thread - what should we be talking about? The US dominates our culture. I have to watch US CNN rather than the global version so I see a lot more of Baton Rouge today than I would otherwise. There ARE concerns in Canada about our relations with First Nations people and what could happen there in the next few decades.

Not a meltdown but more trouble on the race front.

Something tells me the Turkish equivalent of plea bargaining is producing evidence right now.

It's possible they encouraged it. But organized it? Some of these rebels may be executed. The govt is claiming they were going to fire a lot of these guys soon so the plotters had to move, ready or not.

I see Erdogan is already demanding Gulen's extradition: https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/jul/16/erdogan-calls-on-obama-to-extradite-terrorist-fethullah-gulen-to-turkey-for-trial-video

Gulen is saying something similar: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/16/fethullah-gulen-turkey-coup-erdogan

The individual members of NATO may make some polite noises but they will continue to cooperate fully with Erdogan. Europe wants more secure borders - the details on how that is achieved will be left to the locals.

What's surprising about that election is how close it was despite decades of oppressive military rule:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_presidential_election,_2012 There's a striking Cairo versus the rest split on the vote too. Actually, I found Morsi less annoying than Erdogan. He didn't seem to have the same ego but, given the vote, he should not have ploughed ahead with so many anti-secular changes.

It is certainly not as fair as it should be but he still enjoys substantial support in the country. That is the sad reality.

In my one experience, Istanbul is not that cosmo beyond the touristy and wealthy areas. There is a huge zone around the city's core that is more traditional. Anyway, the coup leaders seem to be different from the usual secularists who have arisen in such times.

These plotters may not have been secular. For Europe, stability and secure borders are the top priorities. They need Erdogan right now.

The Turks voted for Erdogan, unfortunately. He seems to be what a large number of them want.