Derek 2.0

Tactical (battlefield) nukes they sure do......RAND last year simulated a Russian invasion of the Baltic States, they figure with the diminished logistics (contrasted with the Soviets in the 80s) the Russians would require 2-3 days to take over the entire region.

I agree, outside of standalone line items (Trucks/ships/aircraft/fuel/munitions etc), I don't feel Canada currently needs to spend more on the military....certainly not until the other members in NATO drastically increase their spending then we could talk......but not so Trudeau can "whip out his short comings to Putin"...

Your link doesn't confirm what you stated? Poor example? You understand during both Gulf Wars there were more than the Americans involved? As to better equipped, off the top of my head, Turkey, Greece, Poland, the Czech Republic, the Dutch.......maybe the Danes, Norwegians.....the Bulgarians and Romanians.......essentially any country that can field a combined arms mechanized force.....in some cases, though obsolete in some areas, the above forces (plus the Americans, British, Germans, French, Italy, Spain etc) can do things that Canadians, absent the required equipment, can't do. And you know said nations will cover Trudeau's shortcomings on defense how? As a nation we should be embarrassed if countries like Croatia or Poland are providing such things as self-propelled artillery, heavy machine guns or anti-aircraft defense for us......

There are plenty of them, and as I said, basing additional nukes in Eastern Europe would negate any "Russian threat"......like it did during the Cold War.

I already provided it in this thread.......you have a cite that Canada was the next choice after France? 2003......and 1991 before that.......in both cases, with plenty of NATO members better equipped for armored warfare then Canada. Ahh but I can "have it both ways".......who are our partners in our Command and what is their ORBAT?

Yet you cited said claims........that make zero sense. Or your source was incorrect and in the real world, we sold surplus (to us) equipment to the Americans after having used it in Afghanistan and then stored it in Canada for several years. Did you not cite a recent source that stated Canada is taking its inventory of TOW missile out of storage? -THEN- Did you not cite a dated source claiming Harper sold years ago all of said missiles?

We weren't the next choice after France.......that would be the Dutch and then the Danes......then Canada. When was the last time Canada fought in a mechanized war of mobility? I'll go with Holland and Italy in 1944-45....... More well equipped? There are plenty of armies in NATO "more well equipped" then Canada, already in Europe.......And how do you know our other "partners" have the countless pieces of equipment that we lack and/or are bringing it with them? It is if the Russian elect to we are...might not last long, but there you go.....several Russian tank armies (and countless reserve division) tend to counter your laughable claim

Sources that contradict each other.........how does one take out of storage what they already sold off? Wait a minute.......I thought your other "source" stated Harper sold them.......... I cited a (visual) source from early this year, before the Liberals dicked around with the defense budget, in which our army is conducting training with the newest versions of the TOW (that Harper purchased).......you cited a source, quoting the army, that said missiles were put in storage.....so missiles not in storage, but being fired by Canadians in an exercise earlier this year, were sold off by Harper several years ago and the Trudeau Liberals just had the same missiles, sold by Harper, taken out of storage.......you don't see a problem with your chain if events?

Is that why several generations of missiles have superceded it in its primary role? No, because Harper didn't return conventional forces back to Europe in a role they are poorly equipped to do. Let me know when Trudeau has properly outfitted the army for modern mechanized warfare..........

So? For some reason, there have been several generations of anti-tank missiles developed since TOW. Apples to oranges, outclassed aircraft and ships can be withdrawn within hours in the advent of hostilities......not so much for land forces in Eastern Europe. He was, I don't remember Harper sending forces overseas under-equipped to do their jobs, in the case of Afghanistan, the Tories even purchased and deployed new equipment straight into the field to address operational needs.....no indication that the Trudeau government has such plans.

Perhaps to you.......one of your "sources" suggest Harper sold off the TOWs, another they are coming out of storage..... I did, I provided evidence of the Canadian army using them earlier this year........the TOWs weren't stored in 2009, they were being used in Afghanistan to grape hole buildings.

You can control sources that you cite The video shows Canadian Forces members training with TOW 2 missiles purchased by the Harper government.....earlier this year, before this Government put them in storage.

Exactly, and further to that, even with the newer wireless TOW missiles, the TOW system is a big expensive missile with a smallish warhead and optically guidance........most NATO forces were replacing/supplementing their TOW inventories in the 1980s....... Right and most modern systems have a larger warhead, cheaper production, a far smaller launcher and are fire & forget.......with the American Javelin system they also have the option of a "top attack" flight profile....kinda handy being able to attack a tank where its armor is the thinnest one would think...... The point remains, if the Trudeau government is going to send Canadians to Europe to defend our allies against the Russian hordes, he'd best equip said Canadians with what they would need to actually defend against said Russians.....an even if he did purchase modern anti-tank missiles, that is merely a drop in the bucket......how about sel-propelled artillery including an MLRS? Air defense systems? Tracked IFVs? How about withdrawing from the land mine treaty? etc etc Trudeau is "whipping out the Canadian army".....the problem, he's waving a two-inch-Grinch at Putin......

Where did I say the Liberals sold off the TOW system? (The Harper Government sold off parts off the TUA launchers to the USMC to support their LAV based fleet) You're the one with the contradiction, on one hand you cite a media source that stated the TOW's were being brought out of storage and then you cite another (dated and incorrect) source that stated the TOWs were sold off by the Harper government.......if Harper sold off the army's TOWs, what missiles are being brought out of storage? You don't see an issue with your "sources" ? Further to that, as cited (with video evidence to boot!!) from the Canadian Army's social media , the army was training with their TOW missiles earlier this year...... just prior to the Liberal's budget where funds for DND were "redirected".

So? Said retired (obsolete) equipment also included the TUA launchers off the old M113s and equipment purchased for the Liberal's Frankenstein ADATS project....... Clearly your above link is wrong as if it were true we wouldn't have missiles to be used in tests earlier this year........or missiles to take out of storage now per your earlier link

So? It counters your earlier link that the Government is now taking them out of storage.....

The Tories mothballed our obsolete inventory several years ago.........and purchased the latest block......The Trudeau government is the one the put these newest of missiles into storage.....per your link, where the army is again taking them out of storage.

Not as their primary (or even secondary) anti-armor missile.........

Except the video evidence I linked to from earlier this year with the Canadian army live firing the latest wireless block of TOW..

So? This Government's "not a cut" took away the infantry's only anti-armor tool........they were testing them earlier this year in Gagetown.....and they've since put them in storage per the article you cited.

Here

Ahhh no......reread your link. There is a reason the Americans (and Europeans) started developing replacements for the TOW and HOT missiles decades ago......and its not because they felt they could still do the required "job".........I'm sure in the certain circumstances a Panzerfaust or even a recoilless rifle could "do the job"

It should be clear.......this government "moved forward" the money required to purchase and maintain such systems.

Damning against this Government's "reprofiling" of funds for DND...........the Army retired/mothballed the obsolete (wire guided) TOW's in their inventory several years ago, to be replaced by the newer wireless TOWs......the army was even conducting its initial live fire trials earlier this year.......then this Government decided the Army no longer needed anti-tank missiles(and heavy machine guns and mortars) because the previous Government purchased the army several hundred grenade launchers. None the less, from reports out of the Syrian civil war, TOWs bounce off the latest Russian armor the Syrians have........This Government, sending the army to counter the "Russian threat", should equip the army with the tools they need to even attempt to slow (notice not stop) a Russian tank army.....in this case, if the countries we're going to defend (Estonia, Lithuania etc) can afford the modern Javelin anti tank missile, so to could Canada.

Much better second night......I thought both Donald Trump Jr and Tiffany Trump had good/effective speeches....regardless of the Donald's future, I could see Jr having a successful career in politics if he so chooses.